Post by Nester the Lark on Mar 6, 2009 19:57:42 GMT -5
Since the topic arises every so often, I decided to make a general thread for news on the state of Nintendo's third parties.
Today's news comes from analyst Arvind Bhatia of Sterne Agee who claims that this year, Nintendo will lose Wii software market share to third-parties.
Bhatia said that with the massive success of the Wii, "third-party publishers are aligning more towards the Wii console this year given the large (and rising) installed base and lower development costs for the Wii console." He estimates that Nintendo currently controls a 70 percent share of the Wii software market, thanks to hugely successful titles like Wii Fit, Wii Play, Mario Kart and more. As 2009 progresses, however, Bhatia said "we expect third parties to take share from Nintendo."
The analyst also claims that the divide on past Nintendo consoles was closer to 60/40, and that Nintendo may release an upgraded console (a "Wii 1.5") by 2012.
Post by Nester the Lark on Mar 6, 2009 22:32:57 GMT -5
You might not be wrong.
All right, here's the deal:
As I said above, I created this as a general thread for how third parties are doing on Nintendo platforms. I did it because usually when articles about it pop up, I create a new thread each time, and I thought it would be better to have just one main thread to dump everything in.
As for me, as I've said in the past, I began promoting third party games not with the intention of drawing some kind of line between them and first party games (there was already a line), but to try to dissolve that line a bit.
Being perceived as a "third party fanboy" is one of the reasons I stopped writing the 3PS -- I felt that that image hurt the credibility of the articles and what they were trying to accomplish. However, even I can't deny that I've had very little interest in Nintendo's first party games over the past couple of years (other than Twilight Princess, Metroid Prime 3, and Brawl), and at the moment, I'm only mildly interested in Sin & Punishment 2 and slightly curious about Punch-Out!! Wii. You can make of that what you will, but from my perspective, I'm simply waiting for Nintendo to give me a good reason to be interested in them beyond the fact that they're there.
But that's pretty much the case with any game.
So, it all boils down to what I've always said: It's not about whether a game was developed/published by Nintendo or not, it's about any game that's available for my Nintendo system that catches my interest. It just so happens that non-Nintendo games have done a better job of that in recent times than Nintendo games.
I agree with Nester on most of his points. Honestly, Nintendo hasn't done much to make me excited about their games. I want to get the DS Fire Emblem, but that's the only thing I've wanted since...Brawl came out, I think? Meanwhile, I've been getting a huge joy out of several third party offerings - N+, Chrono Trigger, and Dragon Quest IV have been excellent, and I loved replaying Resident Evil 4 with the Wiimote. And if I jump ship to the PS2, there's the incredible Persona 4 that I may crown as my favorite game of all time. When I look ahead to the Wii/DS schedule, I see MadWorld, I see Little King's Story (I think its name changed, but that's all I remember about it XD ), I see Boy & His Blob (gorgeous!), I see Again: Eye of Providence (I love CING's Hotel Dusk!), I see Dragon Quest V, VI and IX. Punch-Out!! is fun, but I don't care for that much to buy it. I've never played Sin & Punishment, so the sequel isn't making me excited. Excitebots looks fun, but I don't really care for racing games much. I may be the only person here who thought the original Mario & Luigi was convoluted (funny, but awkward controls hampered the fun), so a third doesn't thrill me. *shrugs*
Post by Boo Destroyer on Mar 7, 2009 11:29:22 GMT -5
It's true. Nintendo really doesn't seem to be putting out that many truly "wow!"-inducing titles as of late.
But how exactly does this stop one from buying and playing any of their older games? This just in, the coolness of any game is determined by the proximity of its release date. Buying a game on its exact release day must mean it's 101% perfect and fun to play. Forget that "better late than never" even means a thing. (Still not getting that mentality myself...)
Other than that, it does seem Nintendo is running out of ideas as of late. Even in these days, their older games still are as great as they were then. I've picked up on a few of them lately (particularly for the GameCube) and am still having a ball with them regardless! Better yet, do what I did once and try coming up with game ideas of your own.
Post by Dances in Undergarments on Mar 8, 2009 23:05:59 GMT -5
The problem with third party efforts on the Wii is that so many of the games (once you exclude the stupid casual stuff) are just not as good as their 'next gen' counterparts. Sure, something like Dead Rising coming to Wii is great if you only have a Wii, but I have it on 360 already. And I know a second, probably better one, is also coming out soon for that 360. Similar deals for stuff like Guitar Hero / Rock Band, which I wanted to buy for Wii as the Wii is my 'party' console, but the lack of cross-compatibility and the weaker DLC lineup (which is admittedly being fixed now) made me get it for 360 instead.
However, we have seen that when effort is put in, it works well - something like Boom Blox or No More Heroes are essentially niche titles, but have done rather well. I believe House of the Dead is also selling rather well for another somewhat niche genre (I still need to pick that up, by the way). And Madworld should also sell rather well, and is one again fairly niche (the black and white does it I think).
The main hole I can see in the lineup, that I think 3rd parties should be aiming for, is more mainstream but developed well titles. Not casual-level mainstream, but like, Halo-level. Something that appeals to a wider audience than a physics based puzzle game. Something gamers and also casual gamers will play. At the moment, the Wii lineup is way too polarised - shovelware casual shit on one side, niche, well produced titles on the other.
Post by Dances in Undergarments on Mar 9, 2009 0:42:55 GMT -5
Well then you're wrong. Casual gamers do play games other than 'casual' games. Stuff like, I dunno, Smash Bros is not 'casual' but can be played by anyone.
Yes, casual gamers do outnumber the audience for Halo. Definitely. But you can already see on the Wii that more hardcore focussed games are selling well compared to the casual efforts, and its pretty clear, I think, that this stems from the fact there are eleventy bajillion shitty casual efforts and only a small handful of decent titles. I think the best audience to strive for is a mid point of the two - accesible enough for casuals but deep enough for the 'real' gamers. As it is right now, a lot of the best selling third party Wii titles are either completely casual or rather niche hardcore. Whereas on something like 360 you've got Halo and stuff that kind of bridges the gap (now admittedly Halo is on the more hardcore side of that bridge, but it isn't hardcore niche. So theres a big market for it.
Are you kidding me? Halo is COMPLETELY hardcore. And Smash Bros can't be played by anyone, go ask your grandma.
If you consider what games are top selling on the Wii, I don't think their hardcore at all. In fact the casual games are the entire reason why Nintendo Wii is such a huge success. Actually its the ONLY reason! Why wouldn't third parties want to try making casual games? What with Nintendo making millions off of them. The problem is, Nintendo knows how to make good casual games while third parties make shovelware casual games.
But you know I think we have our own idea here of what it means to be a casual or hardcore gamer. That's the problem. They're such fluid terms. That's how arguments break out. Because of what they mean. I have my own idea:
To me, casual gamers don't really play video games. Not like we do. They'll spend a half an hour at the most. A casual gamer doesn't want to learn all the different button commands, trying to figure out which thing does what. Simple games that select this and move that. Move left turn right. The only reason I consider Mario Kart Wii casual is because of the Wii Wheel. Otherwise the other Mario Kart games are hardcore to me.
Also, casuals like puppies and a quick round of golf.
Hardcore gamers are gaming connoisseurs. They are dedicated, thinking and competing people who appreciate the games they play. They learn about a game before it's release and know exactly what to purchase. Unlike a casual person who will buy a game based on the commercial they see. The hardcore can learn all the button commands, and won't lose track of what of what he or she is doing during the game.
Also, hardcore like beating things up and shooting.