Post by Evie ❤✿ on Apr 17, 2019 9:46:52 GMT -5
WIP:
In this thread I'll discuss a specific series interest of mine, which I still do not know much about other than basic details (but have completed the original game). The games, which were Pokémon inspired monster battling games featured Sanrio licensed characters (of which Sanrio I am a big fan) however Imagineer also designed their own characters for the game, mainly monsters, but also a few characters not considered as monsters such as the Toki no Roujin (Elder of Time).
I have made a few notes marked with an *. You can refer to these at the bottom of this thread.
To be continued as I need to go out somewhere briefly, but may be back soon.
Part i: Contextual details
The games were only released in Japan, but with their flaws aside (regarding gameplay) they seem quite interesting to me. I think the music also sounds very good (and as an aesthetic I feel creates a Sanrio atmosphere in ways I can't quite grasp in words other than just "it's generally cheerful and sweet" however some parts could be scary for a much younger demographic i.e. the cave theme), yet with high random encounters it can feel anti-climax. You can buy what is the equivalent to Pokémon's Repel though. Another complaint in Japanese reviews was a high difficulty slope.
This section contains details from before the initial games (Sanrio_Timenet:_Kako_Hen_and_Mirai_Hen) which were released only in Japan on November 27, 1998 for the Game Boy: Arguably without the influences of games before them, more than likely some themes like collecting the monsters, battling with them may not have been thought up.
The successors Space-Net: Cosmo Red and Cosmo Blue for Game Boy Color, also a Japan-only release, borrowed from the original games, but unlike the original the player character can fight too, as can representatives or recruits of a crime-fighting space organisation called ISNA (International Space-Net Agency).
Part ii: Early inspirations that lead to the monster-battling genre, not necessarily relevant to Pokémon and before its conception
Megami Tensei (Atlus 1987):
This popular franchise in Japan that debuted on September 11 1987 with Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei, already drew similarities in gameplay to the later (and also very popular) Pokémon.* I'm in no way an expert of this franchise however some people actually talk about Megami Tensei and Pokémon together, as there are similarities in mechanics and gameplay;
Quote: Wikipedia contributors
"The gameplay uses first-person navigation of dungeons and turn-based battles against demons. The player can recruit demons as allies by talking to them rather than fighting them, and two to three demons can be fused to create new demons."
And in the original game:
"During battles, the player can try to persuade enemy demons to join them, in exchange for magnetite, money, or items. The player can keep seven demons at a time, of which up to four can be summoned at the same time; summoned demons aid the player in battles with physical and magic attacks, but cost money to summon, and consume magnetite as the player walks around."
Tamagotchi (Bandai 1996):
The cute characters/design, the concept of raising a pet, and many societies love of animals (regardless of culture) and our and carnal desire for life and food/hierarchy of needs (Maslow)-related desire for nurture. I feel it's not surprising a lot of people like Tamagotchi.
I imagine with its themes this was popular among women (as I identify as, I've discovered), but male fans like this too and I don't think it should matter as we are who we are.
Unlike Pokémon I don't know if there is battling involved, but it has many fans and heavily influenced one of the larger 'arch-themes' of these brands.
Robotrek (Enix 1994):
This game was not as popular as some series (such as Megami Tensei, Pokémon, Yo-kai Watch!) but I feel it is worth stressing as it is loosely similar to later monster-battling games.
(For now due to needing to go out will just provide the link) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robotrek
Part iii: The success of Pokémon and its influence on 'monster-battling'/'pet raising'/'collection' franchises:
With the advent of Pokémon Red and Green in Japan, the concept of monster-battling as an enjoyable and profitable video game genre was not ignored by competitors following its success, including earlier on, long before Yo-Kai Watch! became another popular monster battling franchise in Japan. Pokémon Red and Green themselves were originally inspired by Satoshi Tajiri's fascination of collecting insects as a child, as well as tokusatsu, a media sub-genre popular in Japan, associated with special effects, specifically; Ultraman and the intimidating monsters that could be found in that franchise (of which it's believed it is likely that the Capsule Kaiju from that franchise were a heavy inspiration for that game), and during the earlier frame of development "Pocket Monsters" was in fact known as "Capsule Monsters".
According to (via GlitterBerri's Game Translations website about Pokémon Red (Green) and Blue) too, at an earlier point in development Game Freak had the idea that trainers (I get the impression more like monster tamers at this time) would battle with you according to a quote I do not know right now the original source of** that goes as follows "Sugimori: At one time, the protagonist would fight as well. But then we asked ourselves "If you can fight on your own, what’s the point of having Pokémon?"". This may be supported by some curious design details, such as Sabrina having a whip:
“(Original Artist)Ken Sugimori: At one time, the protagonist would fight as well. But then we asked ourselves “If you can fight on your own, what’s the point of having Pokémon?”
Furthermore, also via GlitterBerri:
"Sugimori: The idea came to us during development. Battles would get monotonous if there were only strong and weak Pokémon, so by affixing types to the Pokémon we were able to give the fighting more depth. There were also characters that were born of their types."
"Sugimori: That’s right. At first, Pokémon were more dinosaur-like than the ones you see today. Beginning the story by choosing 1 of 3 Pokémon of different types was also something that came about in the middle of development. It’s pretty common at our company to have a game change completely during the development period. We had at least 10 different scenarios just for the opening sequence."
We can also perhaps infer that the game, also regarding a leaked asset that was spread on the Internet, regarding a character known as "Jack" (still mentioned in the code of Japanese Gold/Silver/Crystal possibly as a prerelease Red/Green leftover, but not necessarily the same as them i.e. "Jack" in Red/Blue is a default name for the Rival) more suited to a game more deeply connected to the Ultraman franchise and large intimidating monsters battling each other; with his mechanical nature, not necessarily just between themselves. Additionally according to the same leaked assets, the Capsule Monsters cries were in fact a reference to Ultraman kaiju.
However, according to similar resources (again via GlitterBerri); the development team had stated:
"Masuda: At first, the protagonist and his Pokémon had a human-pet relationship. When we started making the game, however, we wondered whether it wouldn’t be better if they were more like friends.
"Sugimori: The first Pokémon were Rhydon, Clefairy, and Lapras. At first, we’d planned to have Pokémon living alongside humans, making their lives easier. So, during the early stages of development, many of the characters we came up with had clear roles, like carrying things around or sailing across the sea with people on their backs."
So Capsule Monsters/Pokémon perhaps was not (relatively closely as much as I may have portrayed it above) similar to Ultraman; the companionship between the creatures was there from the start, as were early gentle/cute Pokémon such as Clefairy, and Lapras which also had a clear role for the culture between Pokémon and Trainer in the game (my other, close friend who knows more about the Ultraman franchise than me, she may be able to provide more specific details).
However, it is likely at some point the distinction between a tokusatsu inspired game like Ultraman and pet-raising/connection between Pokémon and Trainer had blurred.
Also of note, the concept of completing the Pokédex was a later edition to the game in relation to earlier development and the staff wanted to have about 1.5x the amount of characters the final game had used.:
"Why did you decide to have 151 Pokémon?
Sugimori: At first, the game was more RPG-like. It was only in the middle of development that the goal of the game became completing your Pokédex. That’s when memory capacity and deciding on a good number of characters became an issue. We actually wanted to have more. We designed around 1.5 times more characters we actually used."
On the significance of that, I don't know the exact inspiration for the Pokédex but my supposition is that they may have felt it may have been pleasing to document the Pokémon as a nice way to know and remember them, and make that a collection/research focus (but that's influenced by my own ideals). Furthermore, they accurately believed that people might like it, but they weren't too sure at the beginning.
Again, via GlitterBerri:
The Future of Pokémon:
"Did you predict that Pokémon would be such a big hit?
Watanabe: I didn’t think it would be such an explosive hit when we were first making it. I felt the games would be a success if we were able to do what we liked."
Sugimori: Of course, I knew that in order for the whole “trading Pokémon” idea to work, we’d need to sell a certain number of copies. But early on we were aiming for 1,000,000. We didn’t predict we’d be anywhere near this successful. We also didn’t imagine there would be any merchandise based on the characters, so we were really happy with all the stuff that came out.
Nishino: In the beginning, we were so ecstatic when anything Pokémon-related was released, we’d collect it ourselves!
Morimoto: I was hitting the gachapon machines hard.
Sugimori: We’d tell ourselves “There are 151, so we’ve gotta catch ‘em all!” *laughing*
Watanabe: Even though we were the ones that made them! *laughing* "
However, during the development of Gold/Silver they humbly wanted to make the successors "Pokémon Gold and Silver" the ultimate Pokémon games but step down from Pokémon**:
Iwata You've just used the term "ultimate" and I feel that even in their names, Pokémon Gold and Pokémon Silver12 were meant to be the ultimate in Pokémon games.
Pokémon Gold Version and Pokémon Silver Version, in which differently-colored Pokémon appear, were released in Japan on 21st November 1999. They were also compatible with the Game Boy Color.
Ishihara That's right. After we released Pokémon Red and Pokémon Green, we began working on these titles, thinking that the ultimate in Pokémon games could only ever be Pokémon Gold and Pokémon Silver. Iwata Not in your wildest dream did you think that you'd be making more and more games after Pokémon Gold and Pokémon Silver. (laughs) Ishihara The reason that I licensed so many products and developed things like the trading cards was basically to ensure that Pokémon Gold and Pokémon Silver were successful. I felt that this was my primary role. So at that time, I worked with the assumption that after we put out Pokémon Gold and Pokémon Silver, my work as far as Pokémon was concerned would be done. Iwata I see. Ishihara So for me, Pokémon Gold and Pokémon Silver represented the finish line.
Iwata They were the finish line? Ishihara I didn't intend to make any more Pokémon titles. I even thought that once we entered the twenty-first century, it would be time for me to do something else entirely. (laughs)
In conclusion of this section, Megami Tensei, Pokémon and similar lesser known franchises set the ground work for what a 'monster battling' game would be like. So it is not surprising developers who 'walked in its shoes' by developing their own monster battling game were influenced by this, but for some reason or another they can appear 'unsettling' to some, yet I feel with the platformer game for example the similarities may not show as easily.
Notes:
*I've heard (unfairly I feel) that Pokémon "copied" this series, but I personally disagree with a lot of the hate as there are connotations with that that could be avoided with words like "possibly influenced", and after all, many games are like Super Mario Bros. and so on. without some popular games we wouldn't see others which followed it. Similarly, games like Fossil Fighters are sometimes dismissed by the media as "Pokémon rip-offs". On the other hand, there were various monster-battling games that could (stereotypically) be hard to like due to lots of random encounters or a 'less rich story/originality in theme' (however you sometimes see the opposite: e.g. Network Adventure Bugsite by KAZe instead of a Pokémon Trainer you're a hacker who must train "Bugs" (though I don't know exactly what these are if they are name-sake exploits in the system) named after computer terminology, how cool is that dude?! (/my bias). Its unfortunate this game too was heavier on encounters and may have flopped in comparison to well-known titles for this reason)), and in that case, I understand why a lot of people don't like them. With recent games such as Yo-kai Watch, some of these ('problems') are addressed.
** However, possibly the Pokémon development staff interview in a July 2000 edition of Nintendo Online Magazine featuring the accounts of Junichi Masuda (sound composer, director/general manager), Tetsuya Watanabe (a programmer), Ken Sugimori (company director/board member and art director), Kōji Nishino (a planner and according to the final release's staff credits: parametric design, map design), Shigeki Morimoto (a programmer and planner, also I know he was a monster designer).
*** TPC ultimately never did stop making Pokémon video games, however I did wonder at some point (without evidence) if Trade & Battle: Card Hero by Intelligent Systems was a distraction. It wouldn't be of their character of Game Freak to just abandon it, but in the HarmoKnight Iwata Asks interview they mentioned they want to make other games but to manage that is very difficult.
In this thread I'll discuss a specific series interest of mine, which I still do not know much about other than basic details (but have completed the original game). The games, which were Pokémon inspired monster battling games featured Sanrio licensed characters (of which Sanrio I am a big fan) however Imagineer also designed their own characters for the game, mainly monsters, but also a few characters not considered as monsters such as the Toki no Roujin (Elder of Time).
I have made a few notes marked with an *. You can refer to these at the bottom of this thread.
To be continued as I need to go out somewhere briefly, but may be back soon.
Part i: Contextual details
The games were only released in Japan, but with their flaws aside (regarding gameplay) they seem quite interesting to me. I think the music also sounds very good (and as an aesthetic I feel creates a Sanrio atmosphere in ways I can't quite grasp in words other than just "it's generally cheerful and sweet" however some parts could be scary for a much younger demographic i.e. the cave theme), yet with high random encounters it can feel anti-climax. You can buy what is the equivalent to Pokémon's Repel though. Another complaint in Japanese reviews was a high difficulty slope.
This section contains details from before the initial games (Sanrio_Timenet:_Kako_Hen_and_Mirai_Hen) which were released only in Japan on November 27, 1998 for the Game Boy: Arguably without the influences of games before them, more than likely some themes like collecting the monsters, battling with them may not have been thought up.
The successors Space-Net: Cosmo Red and Cosmo Blue for Game Boy Color, also a Japan-only release, borrowed from the original games, but unlike the original the player character can fight too, as can representatives or recruits of a crime-fighting space organisation called ISNA (International Space-Net Agency).
Part ii: Early inspirations that lead to the monster-battling genre, not necessarily relevant to Pokémon and before its conception
Megami Tensei (Atlus 1987):
This popular franchise in Japan that debuted on September 11 1987 with Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei, already drew similarities in gameplay to the later (and also very popular) Pokémon.* I'm in no way an expert of this franchise however some people actually talk about Megami Tensei and Pokémon together, as there are similarities in mechanics and gameplay;
Quote: Wikipedia contributors
"The gameplay uses first-person navigation of dungeons and turn-based battles against demons. The player can recruit demons as allies by talking to them rather than fighting them, and two to three demons can be fused to create new demons."
And in the original game:
"During battles, the player can try to persuade enemy demons to join them, in exchange for magnetite, money, or items. The player can keep seven demons at a time, of which up to four can be summoned at the same time; summoned demons aid the player in battles with physical and magic attacks, but cost money to summon, and consume magnetite as the player walks around."
Tamagotchi (Bandai 1996):
The cute characters/design, the concept of raising a pet, and many societies love of animals (regardless of culture) and our and carnal desire for life and food/hierarchy of needs (Maslow)-related desire for nurture. I feel it's not surprising a lot of people like Tamagotchi.
I imagine with its themes this was popular among women (as I identify as, I've discovered), but male fans like this too and I don't think it should matter as we are who we are.
Unlike Pokémon I don't know if there is battling involved, but it has many fans and heavily influenced one of the larger 'arch-themes' of these brands.
Robotrek (Enix 1994):
This game was not as popular as some series (such as Megami Tensei, Pokémon, Yo-kai Watch!) but I feel it is worth stressing as it is loosely similar to later monster-battling games.
(For now due to needing to go out will just provide the link) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robotrek
Part iii: The success of Pokémon and its influence on 'monster-battling'/'pet raising'/'collection' franchises:
With the advent of Pokémon Red and Green in Japan, the concept of monster-battling as an enjoyable and profitable video game genre was not ignored by competitors following its success, including earlier on, long before Yo-Kai Watch! became another popular monster battling franchise in Japan. Pokémon Red and Green themselves were originally inspired by Satoshi Tajiri's fascination of collecting insects as a child, as well as tokusatsu, a media sub-genre popular in Japan, associated with special effects, specifically; Ultraman and the intimidating monsters that could be found in that franchise (of which it's believed it is likely that the Capsule Kaiju from that franchise were a heavy inspiration for that game), and during the earlier frame of development "Pocket Monsters" was in fact known as "Capsule Monsters".
According to (via GlitterBerri's Game Translations website about Pokémon Red (Green) and Blue) too, at an earlier point in development Game Freak had the idea that trainers (I get the impression more like monster tamers at this time) would battle with you according to a quote I do not know right now the original source of** that goes as follows "Sugimori: At one time, the protagonist would fight as well. But then we asked ourselves "If you can fight on your own, what’s the point of having Pokémon?"". This may be supported by some curious design details, such as Sabrina having a whip:
“(Original Artist)Ken Sugimori: At one time, the protagonist would fight as well. But then we asked ourselves “If you can fight on your own, what’s the point of having Pokémon?”
Furthermore, also via GlitterBerri:
"Sugimori: The idea came to us during development. Battles would get monotonous if there were only strong and weak Pokémon, so by affixing types to the Pokémon we were able to give the fighting more depth. There were also characters that were born of their types."
"Sugimori: That’s right. At first, Pokémon were more dinosaur-like than the ones you see today. Beginning the story by choosing 1 of 3 Pokémon of different types was also something that came about in the middle of development. It’s pretty common at our company to have a game change completely during the development period. We had at least 10 different scenarios just for the opening sequence."
We can also perhaps infer that the game, also regarding a leaked asset that was spread on the Internet, regarding a character known as "Jack" (still mentioned in the code of Japanese Gold/Silver/Crystal possibly as a prerelease Red/Green leftover, but not necessarily the same as them i.e. "Jack" in Red/Blue is a default name for the Rival) more suited to a game more deeply connected to the Ultraman franchise and large intimidating monsters battling each other; with his mechanical nature, not necessarily just between themselves. Additionally according to the same leaked assets, the Capsule Monsters cries were in fact a reference to Ultraman kaiju.
However, according to similar resources (again via GlitterBerri); the development team had stated:
"Masuda: At first, the protagonist and his Pokémon had a human-pet relationship. When we started making the game, however, we wondered whether it wouldn’t be better if they were more like friends.
"Sugimori: The first Pokémon were Rhydon, Clefairy, and Lapras. At first, we’d planned to have Pokémon living alongside humans, making their lives easier. So, during the early stages of development, many of the characters we came up with had clear roles, like carrying things around or sailing across the sea with people on their backs."
So Capsule Monsters/Pokémon perhaps was not (relatively closely as much as I may have portrayed it above) similar to Ultraman; the companionship between the creatures was there from the start, as were early gentle/cute Pokémon such as Clefairy, and Lapras which also had a clear role for the culture between Pokémon and Trainer in the game (my other, close friend who knows more about the Ultraman franchise than me, she may be able to provide more specific details).
However, it is likely at some point the distinction between a tokusatsu inspired game like Ultraman and pet-raising/connection between Pokémon and Trainer had blurred.
Also of note, the concept of completing the Pokédex was a later edition to the game in relation to earlier development and the staff wanted to have about 1.5x the amount of characters the final game had used.:
"Why did you decide to have 151 Pokémon?
Sugimori: At first, the game was more RPG-like. It was only in the middle of development that the goal of the game became completing your Pokédex. That’s when memory capacity and deciding on a good number of characters became an issue. We actually wanted to have more. We designed around 1.5 times more characters we actually used."
On the significance of that, I don't know the exact inspiration for the Pokédex but my supposition is that they may have felt it may have been pleasing to document the Pokémon as a nice way to know and remember them, and make that a collection/research focus (but that's influenced by my own ideals). Furthermore, they accurately believed that people might like it, but they weren't too sure at the beginning.
Again, via GlitterBerri:
The Future of Pokémon:
"Did you predict that Pokémon would be such a big hit?
Watanabe: I didn’t think it would be such an explosive hit when we were first making it. I felt the games would be a success if we were able to do what we liked."
Sugimori: Of course, I knew that in order for the whole “trading Pokémon” idea to work, we’d need to sell a certain number of copies. But early on we were aiming for 1,000,000. We didn’t predict we’d be anywhere near this successful. We also didn’t imagine there would be any merchandise based on the characters, so we were really happy with all the stuff that came out.
Nishino: In the beginning, we were so ecstatic when anything Pokémon-related was released, we’d collect it ourselves!
Morimoto: I was hitting the gachapon machines hard.
Sugimori: We’d tell ourselves “There are 151, so we’ve gotta catch ‘em all!” *laughing*
Watanabe: Even though we were the ones that made them! *laughing* "
However, during the development of Gold/Silver they humbly wanted to make the successors "Pokémon Gold and Silver" the ultimate Pokémon games but step down from Pokémon**:
Iwata You've just used the term "ultimate" and I feel that even in their names, Pokémon Gold and Pokémon Silver12 were meant to be the ultimate in Pokémon games.
Pokémon Gold Version and Pokémon Silver Version, in which differently-colored Pokémon appear, were released in Japan on 21st November 1999. They were also compatible with the Game Boy Color.
Ishihara That's right. After we released Pokémon Red and Pokémon Green, we began working on these titles, thinking that the ultimate in Pokémon games could only ever be Pokémon Gold and Pokémon Silver. Iwata Not in your wildest dream did you think that you'd be making more and more games after Pokémon Gold and Pokémon Silver. (laughs) Ishihara The reason that I licensed so many products and developed things like the trading cards was basically to ensure that Pokémon Gold and Pokémon Silver were successful. I felt that this was my primary role. So at that time, I worked with the assumption that after we put out Pokémon Gold and Pokémon Silver, my work as far as Pokémon was concerned would be done. Iwata I see. Ishihara So for me, Pokémon Gold and Pokémon Silver represented the finish line.
Iwata They were the finish line? Ishihara I didn't intend to make any more Pokémon titles. I even thought that once we entered the twenty-first century, it would be time for me to do something else entirely. (laughs)
In conclusion of this section, Megami Tensei, Pokémon and similar lesser known franchises set the ground work for what a 'monster battling' game would be like. So it is not surprising developers who 'walked in its shoes' by developing their own monster battling game were influenced by this, but for some reason or another they can appear 'unsettling' to some, yet I feel with the platformer game for example the similarities may not show as easily.
Notes:
*I've heard (unfairly I feel) that Pokémon "copied" this series, but I personally disagree with a lot of the hate as there are connotations with that that could be avoided with words like "possibly influenced", and after all, many games are like Super Mario Bros. and so on. without some popular games we wouldn't see others which followed it. Similarly, games like Fossil Fighters are sometimes dismissed by the media as "Pokémon rip-offs". On the other hand, there were various monster-battling games that could (stereotypically) be hard to like due to lots of random encounters or a 'less rich story/originality in theme' (however you sometimes see the opposite: e.g. Network Adventure Bugsite by KAZe instead of a Pokémon Trainer you're a hacker who must train "Bugs" (though I don't know exactly what these are if they are name-sake exploits in the system) named after computer terminology, how cool is that dude?! (/my bias). Its unfortunate this game too was heavier on encounters and may have flopped in comparison to well-known titles for this reason)), and in that case, I understand why a lot of people don't like them. With recent games such as Yo-kai Watch, some of these ('problems') are addressed.
** However, possibly the Pokémon development staff interview in a July 2000 edition of Nintendo Online Magazine featuring the accounts of Junichi Masuda (sound composer, director/general manager), Tetsuya Watanabe (a programmer), Ken Sugimori (company director/board member and art director), Kōji Nishino (a planner and according to the final release's staff credits: parametric design, map design), Shigeki Morimoto (a programmer and planner, also I know he was a monster designer).
*** TPC ultimately never did stop making Pokémon video games, however I did wonder at some point (without evidence) if Trade & Battle: Card Hero by Intelligent Systems was a distraction. It wouldn't be of their character of Game Freak to just abandon it, but in the HarmoKnight Iwata Asks interview they mentioned they want to make other games but to manage that is very difficult.