|
Post by mrmolecule on Jan 22, 2007 17:57:01 GMT -5
What counts as a 3rd Party Game here? Take The Tower SP, for instance. In Japan, it was 2nd party (developed by Vivarium, published by Nintendo). In USA, it was published by Sega. So is does it "count" as a 3rd Party Game?
What about former 3rd Party Games? Like Chibi-Robo!?
|
|
|
Post by Nester the Lark on Jan 22, 2007 20:17:35 GMT -5
Well, if you mean in general, then defining 1st, 2nd, and 3rd party gets a little ugly since there's usually an exception to every rule. I think Fry can do a much better job of breaking it down than I could. If you mean for the 3PS, tho, then it's much simpler. If it's officially available for a Nintendo system (DS/Wii/VC) and it's not covered by NinDB, then it's eligible for the 3PS. Again, that pretty much leaves everything up to Fry, so I'll let him sweat over it.
|
|
|
Post by minimario on Jan 23, 2007 5:35:52 GMT -5
Everyting not published by Nintendo is third party. So games like The Tower SP are third party here and second party in Japan (I think).
|
|
|
Post by kirbychu on Jan 23, 2007 5:39:46 GMT -5
I think the easiest way to tell is to just check if it's covered by Nintendo Database. If it's not it goes here, I guess.
|
|
|
Post by Fryguy64 on Jan 23, 2007 6:13:30 GMT -5
It's not that simple. I have had to make some judgement calls on this for the purposes of NinDB.
Minimario is absolutely correct - in actuality, a game published by Nintendo is first party in that territory - if it's published by Atlus, Square Enix or Namco (etc.) in another territory then it's third party in that territory.
The game itself has no intrinsic quality that makes it a first or third party published title. Only the circumstances of the game's release bestow upon the game the status of first or third party.
Too complicated? I agree - so here's how I break it down for NinDB:
First Party - A game developed by Nintendo and published by Nintendo
Second Party - A game developed by a company close to Nintendo, exclusively for Nintendo. The game is published by Nintendo.
Third Party (Group A) - A game developed by a third party company exclusively for Nintendo. The game is published by Nintendo in one region, but not others.
Third Party (Group B) - A game developed by a third party company and published by a third party company. In other words, not NinDB material.
Problem Study 1: What about Doubutsu Banchou? It was developed by a Marigul studio in Japan (a company set up by Nintendo), adapted for the Gamecube by Intelligent Systems (a Nintendo second party), published by Nintendo in Japan, and even received a trophy in SSBM. And yet it's published by Atlus in the USA. So is it a second party any more?
Problem Study 2: What about when a game that is clearly third party is published worldwide by Nintendo? Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, or Baten Kaitos 2?
Problem Study 3: What about when Nintendo publishes a game that isn't exclusive to Nintendo systems? Such as Snake Rattle N' Roll, or Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire?
Problem Study 4: And finally, what about when a company leaves, and something that is clearly a second party game series no longer is second party? Banjo-Kazooie, Perfect Dark, Eternal Darkness - just a few of the problem titles caused by second party buyouts and breakdowns.
|
|
|
Post by wanderingshadow on Jan 23, 2007 10:31:28 GMT -5
The answer, my friends, is blowing in the wind. The answer is blowing in the wind.
However, it seems that FryGuy likes to error on the side of caution by including the above games and I agree with him.
|
|
|
Post by minimario on Jan 23, 2007 14:45:30 GMT -5
And there's another problem: what about the Nintendo licenced games on non-Nintendo consoles like the Atari Donkey Kong games?
|
|
|
Post by Hiker of Games on Jan 23, 2007 17:20:13 GMT -5
It's a third party Atari System game, more or less.
It doesn't really fit with the definition we're using with 1st, 2nd, 3rd party games on Nintendo Consoles.
|
|
|
Post by Fryguy64 on Jan 24, 2007 6:11:35 GMT -5
It also all depends on your vantage point. You can talk of a first-party Capcom game, if your primary interest is in Capcom rather than Nintendo.
So if you're talking about Nintendo games on other systems, for this website clearly they're "first-party" (or at least Nintendo licensed) as they're Nintendo games, but they're a third-party release from the Atari viewpoint.
So that's easy to get around.
|
|
|
Post by minimario on Jan 24, 2007 11:51:38 GMT -5
It also all depends on your vantage point. You can talk of a first-party Capcom game, if your primary interest is in Capcom rather than Nintendo. So if you're talking about Nintendo games on other systems, for this website clearly they're "first-party" (or at least Nintendo licensed) as they're Nintendo games, but they're a third-party release from the Atari viewpoint. So that's easy to get around. But what are they from Nintendo's viewpoint?
|
|
|
Post by Nester the Lark on Jan 24, 2007 12:00:25 GMT -5
I tend to think of parties being tied to systems rather than companies. Such as: 1st party relates to a company supporting its own system, 3rd relates to other companies providing support, and 2nd is somewhere in-between.
|
|
|
Post by Fryguy64 on Jan 25, 2007 4:28:30 GMT -5
In this case, I'm using "first party" as a euphemism for "in-house" - tied to publisher rather than system.
If you follow the system route then yes, Atari Donkey Kong is third-party.
Of course, this has its problems as well. This is where the final category comes in: "Licensed", where a third party developer and third party publisher are using a first-party license, but little or no input from Nintendo is there. (eg. Mario is Missing, CDi Zeldas, Game Boy Wars 2, etc.)
|
|
|
Post by Nester the Lark on Jan 25, 2007 11:48:14 GMT -5
So, going back to the Capcom example, 1st party would be a game developed and published by Capcom; 2nd party would be a game developed by an external company, but still published by, Capcom; and 3rd party would be... any game that has nothing to do with Capcom?
|
|
|
Post by Fryguy64 on Jan 25, 2007 11:54:35 GMT -5
Well, third party is kinda specific to system developers.... but if you like, yes.
|
|
|
Post by mrmolecule on Jan 25, 2007 17:22:46 GMT -5
That Capcom example would be helpful if one wanted to make a "Capcom Database"
|
|