Who would be next to enter the Smash Spotlight

[Smashchu]

spud said:

smashchu2 said:

But Snake got presidence over other third parties. He was added since Kojinma and Sakurai were friends. It was a favor. So while Megaman is more popular then Snake (and many characters are) he lacks that edge. He is in the same class as everyone else. Only Snake gets that privilege.

Whats stopping Nintendo from using other rational for third party characters later?

I've said a lot of them before. The make less money, rights changing hands. I forgot someone the others.

This is why I stressed it. 3rd party characters=/=Nintendo characters. It's not hard to realize that adding a 3rd party character is not easy. It's also not practical, in that sence, to have a bunch. 3 isn't a lot but now you have 3 other companies involved in your game. Too many cooks in the kitchen, you know

Smashchu by people you mean you. The Mario franchise is the most well known game franchise there is and while it would be awesome to see Geno his obscurity dose play a role. As you would put it Mario Franchise =/= Obscure Franchise so when you think about it there probably not going to add playable obscure character from one game over playable Waluigi, Dasy, or Toad. Besides I'm pretty sure we've seen all the characters The Main Mario series is going to get.

I am impressed. I remember saying the bold line too. I still think it is a valid point. But then it comes to a question: would it be wise to add the Waluigis and Daysis. Geno is some what of a firm bet (not necessarily safe). A character who players will like, and is a nod to some. But more people probably know who Daisy and Waluigi. But, should we add those characters, one who are also hated. That is the reason I think Krystal didn't make it. Toad though is a plossible choice.

My problem with what DiU said (to defend my statement) is that it seems that it's just nerdrage. I am guilty of a linear argument, but the last two post were both the same thing, and were nothing but disgusted. My problem is at least try.
I think you understand what I mean. There has to be at least some effort in what your trying to prove. You may not (probably, can not) get facts but at least back it up with something. Outlook, sales, comparison. It's a matter of effort. It's convincing others of your opinion, or at least show them where you are coming from.

Of course, it was not meant to be mean.

I don't know about that Smash. Seems to me there were a lot of people outraged at the Idea, even when Snake was announced there was the camp of Anti-Sonic already taking their stand.

From observation, I would disagree. There was a lot of people who wanted him, and the anti-sonic people were those who were made at the Sonic people. In fact, a lot of the haters didn't hate Sonic, but were sick of the people who wanted him.

Of course, there were always the "purist" who didn't want any third party characters. Of course, these people seem to be a small minority.

[Dances in Undergarments]

Smashchu, firstly, in case you haven't noticed, your posts lately have been nothing but gigantic rant posts that use no facts, and are used to simply shoot down everyone else opinions. The most annoying of these is your apparent knowledge of the wants of everybody in the world.

You say I need to back up my claim that Geno is obscure. Come on. Really? You honestly need me to back up the fact that 1 character that only appeared in one game that came out 12 years ago, from a series that of 5 games that each feature their own individual cast of characters, which is part of a wider series of eleventy billion. Remember, this game has NOT been rereleased since then, and it was never released in PAL regions. No, I think the responsibility here lies with you. If you can prove that a significantly high number of people (and people from different walks of life, not a survey of idiots over at 4-chan, 12-chan, v-chan and jackie-chan), then I will stop making that argument, but until then, its pretty easy to conclude that nobody knows who the fuck this dude is.

As for Megaman, others have already mentioned we've already seen two distinct ways 3rd party characters could get in, and Megaman could get in with either of these (he IS popular. Once again, I'm going to leave it up to you to prove he isn't, because, once again, logic dictates the dude with that many games over every platform as well as a buttload of merchandise and cartoons IS popular, and until you can prove he isn't (pro tip: you won't), we should all assume he's incredibly popular. Because he is), not to mention any other way he could get in.

[Smashchu]

dancesinunderwear said:

Smashchu, firstly, in case you haven't noticed, your posts lately have been nothing but gigantic rant posts that use no facts, and are used to simply shoot down everyone else opinions. The most annoying of these is your apparent knowledge of the wants of everybody in the world.

The problem is that I felt the same way with your post. Thus, my reply was sharp. However, I was open for criticisms, so your post was not in the wrong. My problem is that you get upset becuase I said Geno was popular enough where Megaman wasn't. You reply with "FFS". Your angry with my reason. That is part of my problem. Where to say something like "I don't think Megaman is less popular then Geno, and I believe he is not more likely then Megaman. Megaman is a character that not only has a reliable group of fans for his inclusion (similar to Geno, but probably more so) but he is also well recognized". You see, this is what I mean with explanation. At least back up your claim in some way. If you can, bring in some kind of evidence. Sales of games, observations. Anything. Instead, you get angry and claim Geno as obscured, and that's it. It's also a post that sounds less critical and more frustrated and angry. I am not to say I am an angle (and I'm clearly not) but I feel this attitude from your post.

I am trying not to be pushy and a an ***. I am being critical of every little thing, yes, but I'm not trying to damper anyone's parade. I accept the same for my post. I do wish someone would give more criticism beyond Geno/Megaman (thank you at least saying something on the AW characters). Of course, there is nothing wrong with "shooting down ideas". Challenging them is what makes them stronger. If they can take the barrage then they can stand up. I am sorry if it's been a bit much. I am trying not to be an *** but I'm not sure if I'm still faltering or what.

It's not to be angry with you, and I'm not trying to be mean. This is just how I feel. I apologize if I offended you. Simply put: I am just saying my problem with your replies.

You say I need to back up my claim that Geno is obscure. Come on. Really? You honestly need me to back up the fact that 1 character that only appeared in one game that came out 12 years ago, from a series that of 5 games that each feature their own individual cast of characters, which is part of a wider series of eleventy billion. Remember, this game has NOT been rereleased since then, and it was never released in PAL regions. No, I think the responsibility here lies with you. If you can prove that a significantly high number of people (and people from different walks of life, not a survey of idiots over at 4-chan, 12-chan, v-chan and jackie-chan), then I will stop making that argument, but until then, its pretty easy to conclude that nobody knows who the wizzle this dude is.

This is true, that the burden of proof is on me, but how can you challenge it when you do not add any type of rebuttal. No, you can not just say he's obscured and be done with it. Because I have said the opposite. That he is not. So, in that sence, how can you say he is obscured and be done. You at least need a backing. But, your post did give one, so that much is out of the way. In short, if you want to refute my idea, you need to bring up an opposing one. Not just that he is obscured.

How about this:
Geno is from a game that sold 1.6 million copies worldwide. He is a character who has a very strong fan base among smash fans. He is a fan favorite amoung fans and a major character from his game. He received 4(5) mentions on Sakurai's poll, making him a character who is unique enough for Smash in some form. Also he was the only character not to make it from a Japanese fan poll (which is why I think Wolf is in, despite not being on the poll, popularity wise).

His main arguments are that is is obscured and rights. For one, Ness was not seen in PAL territories, yet he is in Smash. His franchise, and is Fire Emblem, is not a huge sell. From VGchartz, the original Eartrhbound only old .8million in Japan. And total, probably less then 1million. So, territory is not an issue. Also, SMRPG sold more then Ice Climber in 3 there territories. So, he is defiantly not hampered by not being seen enough. Also, his right probably will not be hard to procure. Alpha Dream added him as a character, and only a minor cameo at that. If this is the case, right are not an issure, and may even be buy able if Nintendo wishes.

As for Megaman, others have already mentioned we've already seen two distinct ways 3rd party characters could get in, and Megaman could get in with either of these (he IS popular. Once again, I'm going to leave it up to you to prove he isn't, because, once again, logic dictates the dude with that many games over every platform as well as a buttload of merchandise and cartoons IS popular, and until you can prove he isn't (pro tip: you won't), we should all assume he's incredibly popular. Because he is), not to mention any other way he could get in.

It was never proving he isn't popular. The thing is he isn't [popular enough. As I have questioned, if he IS as popular as you say, why is he not in Brawl. If he was truly that popular, would Sakurai have added him?
EDIT: Theres more, I'm just not going to write it. I could easily write a thesis on it, but I've said it all before.

He also gets what I call a "next-in-line-effect" (and it's ironic you speak of this becuase I as just thinking this while I was in the shower). Basically, when one character gets in, especially one who is popular, everyone else will jump on a new character. When Lucas was reviled, everyone wanted Claus. As more characters were reviled, the others who were left jumped in popularity. Before Sonic's unveiling, no one really talked about the other third parties. It was primarily Sonic. Megaman was just another 3rsd party character. However, once Sonic got in, everyone jumped on Megaman. It's then that Megaman shot in popularity. it's typical. If it wasn't Megaman, it would have been Simon or Pac-Man.

But I digress........
But, may we move on from Megaman verses Geno. This is a dead horse at this point. I know I shouldn't be the one to say it, but I'm done. Part of my reason for making this topic was to discuss which characters would be wise choices for a SSB4. But, it feels it's just be about Megaman. Given, I'm probably part of the problem.

Sorry if I've been an ass DiU. I already mentioned my problem,. but I don't hate you. You made a good point. I was just hoping for some kind of criticisms. That's part of the way you get better.

[Dances in Undergarments]

I love you too, Smash.

[Wildcat]

Some facts:

There are currently over 100 titles in the Mega Man series, according to Capcom's official sales data. This figure is more than the number of titles in the Street Fighter and Resident Evil franchises combined.

Source

Mega Man rated the 61st best game made on a Nintendo System in Nintendo Power's Top 200 Games list.

Source

Mega Man 2 was named by GameSpot as one of "The Greatest Games of All Time".[2] It was also honored in Nintendo Power's "Top 200 Nintendo Games Ever" list, ranked at number 33.[3] Creator Keiji Inafune claims the success of Mega Man 2 is what made the Mega Man series a hit that continues to spawn sequels.[8]

and

The game is considered by many publications to be the best title in the series, and, by some, one of the greatest games ever made.[2][3]

Source

Mega Man has also been featured in many comics and manga in Japan.

and

The classic series was the source material for two animated television series both apatly named "Mega Man" and featuring the heroes, villains, and themes of the games. The first show was a three- part OVA called "Mega Man: Upon a Star" developed in Japan, the other simply called "Mega Man," was developed specifically for North American audiences by animation studio Ruby Spears.

Source

Captain N:

At the outset of the first episode, the hero of the series, Kevin Keene, a teenager from Northridge, California, and his dog, Duke, are summoned to another universe known as Videoland by being sucked into a vortex that formed in his television, called the Ultimate Warp Zone. In order to fulfill an ancient prophecy, Kevin is destined to become the hero "Captain N: The Game Master" and save Videoland from evil forces, which are led by Mother Brain from the floating world/fortress called Metroid. By the time Kevin arrives on the scene, Mother Brain has almost succeeded in capturing the Palace of Power and conquering all Videoland. Kevin (who in Videoland is armed with a Zapper and a belt buckle shaped like a NES controller) and Duke appear suddenly on the other side of the Ultimate Warp Zone before the N Team, which consists of Princess Lana (the acting ruler of Videoland; a later episode explains the absence of her father the King), Simon Belmont, Mega Man, and Pit (Kid Icarus), none of whom show any confidence in Kevin's ability in the beginning. After Lana is kidnapped by the enemy shortly after Kevin's arrival, the reluctant group puts their differences aside to go on a rescue mission where Kevin eventually gains the others' confidence.

In most episodes, the N Team's enemy is a group of video game villains usually led by the boisterous and loud Mother Brain who is accompanied by her minions: the sheepish Eggplant Wizard, the thuggish King Hippo, and the scheming Dr. Wily. A 'villain of the week' is featured in some episodes when a particular video game becomes the setting (such as Malkil of Wizards & Warriors). Donkey Kong also makes an appearance as a territorial, belligerent, Godzilla-sized gorilla in some episodes, but usually serves as a dangerous neutral character posing a hazard to friend and foe alike.

Further recurring characters make an appearance as either friend and foe. The Count (Castlevania) makes multiple appearances, along with Dr. Light (Dr. Wright), Link and Princess Zelda, and, from season two onward, Gameboy joins the N Team.

Source, Emphasis added by me.

These are the major Mega Man series, including year they began:

Mega Man (Rockman) (1987)
Mega Man X (Rockman X) (1993)
Mega Man Legends (Rockman DASH) (1997)
Mega Man Battle Network (Rockman.EXE) (2001)
Mega Man Zero (Rockman Zero) (2002)
Mega Man ZX (Rockman ZX) (2006)
Mega Man Star Force (Ryûsei no Rockman, lit. "Shooting Star Rockman") (2006)

Source

A sampling of fan sites for Mega Man:
www.mmhp.net/
www.planet-megaman.com/
blue-bomber.jvmwriter.org/
www.exehq.com/
www.legends-station.com/
And Google's Directory on Mega Man: www.google.com/Top/Games/Video_Games/Action/M/Mega_Man_Games/

Meanwhile, if I type in Geno fansite, I get this:
www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4DKUS_enUS255US255&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=geno+fansite&spell=1

To be more specific, here's a Google search of SUPER MARIO RPG GENO FANSITE:
www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4DKUS_enUS255US255&q=super+mario+rpg+geno+fansite

Hm, no one has seemingly opened a specific website for just Geno, from the three pages I glanced at.

In short, people would like Mega Man in the next game. Kenji Inafume would like Mega Man in the next game. It's not that big of a deal, really. I'm one of them. If Geno somehow makes it in, then I won't complain. But comparing Mega Man to Geno is kind of a silly argument. I asked my fiance a quick question, and she's a mild gamer. She knew who Mega Man was, but stared at me when I asked her who Geno was. Mega Man has name power. He has a large fan base. He has a moveset that could work. And he's known by more people than Geno is. And I think that's pretty clear.

*goes to eat dinner*

[Smashchu]

@diu:*hugs*
Wildcat:That's a nice job there. Props

I do have a question for you guys. What about classic characters. It seems Smash loves to add old school characters from the NES era and before (Game & Watch). What should be the next one. I was thinking Balloon Fighter. Little Mac is a possibility. Or use Flip's idea of Takamaru. What do you guys think?

[TV Eye]

Seems good enough proof for me. MEGA MAN FOR SSB4!

[mopinks]

smashchu2 said:

The point was that being popular and from a best selling franchise is like saying I have hair. Lots of people have hair. What's so special about mine? The same is true of what you said. Since I can substitute so many other characters into it, it doesn't hold much water. Like the more dollars there are circulating, the less their value is.

but you chose Pac-Man, a character who actually is popular enough to stand a chance, just like Megaman. that's why the comparison is flawed. you can't substitute so many other characters into it, because so many other characters aren't on that same level of importance.

the list of third-party characters who really are popular enough to get in by fan demand is really really small, and Megaman is right at the top of that list. I'd say Pac-Man and Bomberman are up there too, but beyond them, there's not much.

[parrothead]

Nintendo doesn't care much about most games that were originally released exclusively outside of Japan (some are still outside of Japan). Some examples are:

• StarTropics
  
• Zoda's Revenge: StarTropics II
  
• Balloon Kid (later released in Japan as "Balloon Fight GB" for the Nintendo Power cartridge system)
  
• Super Punch-Out!! (later released in Japan for the Nintendo Power cartridge system)
  
• Kid Icarus: Of Myths and Monsters
  
• Gumshoe
  
• To the Earth
  
• Metal Combat: Falcon's Revenge
  
• Play Action Football (NES, GB and SNES versions)
  
• Short Order/Eggsplode!
  
• Tin Star
  
• Arm Wrestling
  
• Nester's Funky Bowling
  
• I'm too lazy to think of several others.
  

This is one reason why there aren't anything related to the games listed above in SSBB.

"Nintendo is a Japanese company."
~ Adam Sessler on Meet the Sess

[The Qu]

/\ /\
I know I'm probably splitting hairs with this, but there is some content releated to the above games. There are stickers for Kid Icarus:OM&M. Nester's Funky Bowling is in the chronicle,as are the others. There may be stickers for the other games, as I'm still 150+ stickers away from a full set. So it's a bit innacurate to say there is no content from them.

[Dances in Undergarments]

smashchu2 said:

@diu:*hugs*
Wildcat:That's a nice job there. Props

I do have a question for you guys. What about classic characters. It seems Smash loves to add old school characters from the NES era and before (Game & Watch). What should be the next one. I was thinking Balloon Fighter. Little Mac is a possibility. Or use Flip's idea of Takamaru. What do you guys think?

Classic DK in 8 bit style.

[Fryguy64]

Nintendo Co. Ltd. doesn't acknowledge any of the internally developed titles that were only released in the USA. Nintendo of America would have been in charge of the chronicle in the US version of the game.

You'll also notice that Nintendo of America includes localized publications, such as Rad Racer. These aren't Nintendo games - and I'm reflecting that on NinDB these days.

Though, out of curiosity, which Kid Icarus OMAM stickers appear in the Sticker album? This is the first I've heard of it, and would also be the only reference to a US-only release in a Japanese developed Nintendo game - so FAIRLY significant I'd say!

[The Qu]

It's just art of Pit. In fact, there is no sticker of Pit with art from the original Kid Icarus (That I've gotten yet, to, at least). There is a very pronounced lack of KI stuff. I have 3 stickers (Pit, Reaper & Reapette, and Eggplant Wizard. I think there is one of Medusa tho) and 4 trophies (Pit, Palutena's Army, Palutena and Palutena's Bow). So its pretty under represented, compared to the insane Kirby representation with completely inane (but awesome!) trophies such as Buggzy, Bomber and Walky (The renamed Mike. Although you get that by unlocking music, which is cool).

[Manspeed]

parrothead1983 said:

a list

I hate to be a stick in the mud, but you listed Tin Star twice.

[mopinks]

well, I wouldn't say KI is "underrepresented". it makes sense that the largest franchises would get the most representation, and Kirby is a really big franchise. Pit's lucky to be there at all!