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Post by Koopaul on Nov 18, 2008 14:55:35 GMT -5
Fryguy the thing I don't get is why you think having the original DKC characters in Jungle Beat would have hurt or limited the game at all.
Barrel Blast had incredible character design in terms of making them something you would find in a DK game. Those new Kremlings and levels have the spirit and attitude of the Donkey Kong series. And while the gameplay sucked, I hope future DK titles will aim their design on Barrel Blast rather than Jungle Beat. I'm all for new characters, but as long as they are in spirit with the series. The things in Jungle Beat were alien, aggressive red-eyed oddities that don't seem to fit at all with the series. I'm not closed off to new characters. It should be clear why characters like Xananab are much more Donkey Kong-like than say a fuzzy pig ball.
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Post by Spud on Nov 18, 2008 15:06:16 GMT -5
The series still needs room to evolve.
I for one would like to see more fuzzy pig balls furry pigs in future DK games.
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Post by Fryguy64 on Nov 18, 2008 15:13:38 GMT -5
And I don't really understand why you think they had to be shoehorned in to the game to make you not hate it! Maybe I'd have loved the game with all the DKC characters in, but I also loved the game without it. It's you who has this major issue with them not being in the game. Them not being there is affecting your enjoyment.
And "original DKC characters"? I hate to point out the obvious, but hardly any characters, animal buddies or enemies from DKC were also in DKC3. And the DKC3 enemy designs were initially criticised for being too "wacky" compared to DKC1 and 2 (I disagreed - I thought the character designs were awesome). Maybe everyone loves them now, but they certainly didn't back then.
This is what I'm saying - because Rare kept changing the characters, the enemies, the animal buddies... that's fine. Because Nintendo did it, that's not OK?
The enemy designs in Jungle Beat WERE strange... but were they stranger than the clownfish? The haunted jacket? The spinning Cat O' 9 Tails? None of them really fit with the animalistic ones from DKC1. What about the Banjo-Kazooie-esque enemy designs in DK64, like little cartoon dominoes and dice? Was Chunky Kong sillier-looking than Karate Kong?
This is why I'm trying to establish whether your problem with Jungle Beat is simply because it's not a Rare game. Or is it because you were expecting it to be a fully-fledged sequel to the Donkey Kong Country series, and it wasn't (a pain I know all too well with Yoshi's Island)? Do you think you'd like Jungle Beat more if it was released along with a true sequel to the Country games?
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Grandy02
Balloon Fighter
I'm so happy today
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Post by Grandy02 on Nov 18, 2008 15:17:24 GMT -5
Fryguy the thing I don't get is why you think having the original DKC characters in Jungle Beat would have hurt or limited the game at all. I also read Fry's post, but I didn't read in it what you say. He only said that it wouldn't improve the gameplay when adding Diddy and classic animal buddies, but not that it would have limited or hurt the game. I'm all for new characters, but as long as they are in spirit with the series. The things in Jungle Beat were alien, aggressive red-eyed oddities that don't seem to fit at all with the series. I'm not closed off to new characters. It should be clear why characters like Xananab are much more Donkey Kong-like than say a fuzzy pig ball. Well, I don't remember that the first two DKCs had a creature that looked that odd and surrealistic as the Banana Birds (or now Xananab). But they were introduced nonetheless, and no one complained. Or what about the boss Dumb Drum from the very first DKC? A floating oil-drum with a skull print, is that the typical enemy in the DK franchise? Surely not, but no one cares. One of the things that I treasure in the Mario/Yoshi/Wario/DK universe is the huge variety of characters and character design, one can look completely different from another, including different art styles. No offense, koopaul, you have made very good postings here and are a great artist and all, but like Fryguy, I, a fan of DK since more than a decade, don't understand what you are doing. |
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Post by Manspeed on Nov 18, 2008 15:45:26 GMT -5
If the characters in JB were redesigned to fit better with the DK brand's current look, I'd be happy. As they stand right now, the JB enemies look more like they'd fit in a Yoshi's Story or a Wario Land, not a DK. Since Rare breathed new life into the DK franchise, it's always been about mixing subtle realism with subtle surrealism. JB was more out-and-out acid trip surreal, definitely not something you'd expect from a DK game.
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on Nov 18, 2008 19:44:28 GMT -5
mixing subtle realism with subtle surrealism This is the most douchey, pretentious shit I've read for some time. Congrats. |
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Post by Koopaul on Nov 18, 2008 20:54:37 GMT -5
Well, I don't remember that the first two DKCs had a creature that looked that odd and surrealistic as the Banana Birds (or now Xananab). But they were introduced nonetheless, and no one complained. Or what about the boss Dumb Drum from the very first DKC? A floating oil-drum with a skull print, is that the typical enemy in the DK franchise? (Actually Dumb Drum is a reference to the original DK arcade.) Surely not, but no one cares. One of the things that I treasure in the Mario/Yoshi/Wario/DK universe is the huge variety of characters and character design, one can look completely different from another, including different art styles. I can't believe you don't realize that there is a defining style and design for characters in those series mentioned above. Mario has a very recognizable style with certain attributes in characters that the series shares. You wouldn't see something from Metroid in a Mario game now would you? The characters in DKC had a cartoony somewhat silly and happy look to them. The characters in Jungle Beat were strange dark demons. The only characters I like were the Party Monkeys and the evil Kongs, they had the spirit I was looking for in a DK game. But I can't say Hoofer looked like an Animal Buddy rather a deranged psychopathic wildebeest with glowing eyes. And for the last time Fryguy... I DON'T HATE JUNGLE BEAT!I loved it as a game. I just hated the fact that it didn't continue the DK series. I own the game and play it. The point I'm trying to get across here is that Nintendo Tokyo had no excuse for changing the series so much. And I've already agreed that adding the DK characters in there wouldn't have been an improvement on gameplay. But then was not including any characters at all an improvement on gameplay? Ofcourse not, then why did they do it? That's the question. Why did they do it? There's got to be a reason why they ignored the many things that was there for them. No excuse. |
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Post by Hiker of Games on Nov 18, 2008 23:00:12 GMT -5
Summary:
Some people like Jungle Beat and wish it was more DKC in stylization.
Some people like Jungle Beat and don't care or think it's close enough.
Some people hate Jungle Beat because omg Donkey Kong has gums.
Some people have lives.
There. Now how about those Play for Wii titles?
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Post by Wildcat on Nov 18, 2008 23:48:38 GMT -5
I can't believe you don't realize that there is a defining style and design for characters in those series mentioned above. Mario has a very recognizable style with certain attributes in characters that the series shares. You wouldn't see something from Metroid in a Mario game now would you? Samus Aran herself pops up in Super Mario RPG in two different cameos. So yes, an element of Metroid has been in the Mario series at one point. Then, of course, there's Samus and a Metroid in Kirby's Dreamland 3, which I consider to be much more candy-coated than the Mario series. Just an observation. |
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Post by Koopaul on Nov 19, 2008 0:12:34 GMT -5
Ahhhh... Those are cameos, I was talking about something that is supposed to be a part of the game series. So let me rephrase my statement (because some people don't know what I'm talking about)
You wouldn't see Mario enemies looking like Metroid enemies now would you.
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Post by Arcadenik on Nov 19, 2008 0:27:42 GMT -5
There are subtle, if not obvious, references of the Donkey Kong arcades in Donkey Kong Country series.
1. Donkey Kong himself.
2. Cranky Kong claims to be the original Donkey Kong who fought Mario.
3. DK throws barrels to attack enemies like how he used to attack Mario.
4. Mankey Kong throws barrels at DK like how DK used to attack Mario.
5. Dumb Drum is just a giant evil version of the steel oil cans in 25m and 50m.
6. Kremlings, especially Klaptraps, are so similar to the crocodile-like enemies in Donkey Kong Jr. (Snapjaws)
7. Necky enemies and bosses are similar to the bird enemies in Donkey Kong Jr. (Nitpickers)
8. Zinger enemies and bosses may be inspired by the bee enemies from Donkey Kong 3 (Buzzbees?)
9. Big Ape City in Donkey Kong Land is said to be the setting the original Donkey Kong arcade game took place.
9. The bananas DK Jr. collected might have inspired the collectible bananas and banana bunches.
10. Kongo Jungle may very well be inspired by the jungle levels in Donkey Kong Jr.
11. The plot of Donkey Kong getting kidnapped by King K. Rool and getting rescued by Diddy Kong and Dixie Kong is not new. The original version was Donkey Kong getting captured by Mario and getting rescued by DK Jr.
The references from the Donkey Kong Country series in Jungle Beat, as far as I know according to you all, are:
1. Donkey Kong himself.
2. Donkey Kong still collects bananas and banana bunches.
3. Donkey Kong still runs and jumps through jungles, mountains, etc.
4. New Kongs are still being introduced.
5. Party Monkeys acting like Barrel Cannons. Why replace Barrel Cannons with Party Monkeys?
6. Helibird acting like Squawks. Why replace Squawks with Helibird?
7. Hoofer acting like Rambi. Why replace Rambi with Hoofer? At least Ellie didn't replace Rambi. She worked much differently from Rambi.
8. Orco acting like Enguarde. Why replace Enguarde with Orco?
Now I can see why Koopaul is questioning Nintendo on why they removed everything in the DK series (no returning Kongs, no returning Animal Buddies, no returning Kremlings) and made everything new (fuzzy pig heads, evil Kongs, "psychotic" animal buddies, etc.) in Jungle Beat. Its basically a Donkey Kong Country game without any returning characters (except Donkey Kong) nor returning items (except bananas) from past DKC games whatsoever.
At least Super Mario Bros. 2 tried to "Mario-ize" Doki Doki Panic with Super Mushrooms (instead of Hearts), 1-Up Mushrooms (instead of Heads), and Koopa Shells (instead of Masks) - Doki Doki Panic still had the coins, POW Blocks, and Starmen so there was no need to change them anyway. And Clawgrip may very well be inspired by the Sidesteppers from Mario Bros., seeing how Doki Doki Panic had no Clawgrip and how Super Mario Advance showed us that Clawgrip is really a giant Sidestepper.
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Post by The Qu on Nov 19, 2008 0:37:06 GMT -5
A lot of your references to DK in DKC are conjecture. Other than the Snapjaws/Klaptrap connection, I don't think any of the enemies are inspired by the others.
Boss Dumb Drum is probably not inspired by the steel drum in DK- it's just a steel drum in an industrial level. Furthermore, the barrels are probably more inspired by the phrase "barrel full of monkeys"- although I'll concede DK is known for barrels anyway.
And come on! Bananas in the DKC series are NOT inspired by DK Jr. They're inspired by monkeys liking bananas!
I'll give you Manky Kong- who I'd never noticed was a ref to the arcade game- and Big Ape City. Plus the obvious ones, of course.
As for the Jungle Beat ones:
Barrel Cannons wouldn't have worked with the rhthyem controls like Party Apes do.
Orco is to big to be Enguarde, IIRC,
Hoofer was also to big to be Rambi.
You've got me on the Helibirds. Although, there was an entire nest of them. They're were only to Squawks (Squawks and Quawks.). Three if you count the Quawks from DKC2 different than the one from DKC3.
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Post by 8bitretroshit on Nov 19, 2008 1:51:28 GMT -5
You wouldn't see Mario enemies looking like Metroid enemies now would you.  I would buy a Mario game like that. |
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Post by Arcadenik on Nov 19, 2008 5:02:50 GMT -5
They could have easily made giant versions of Rambi and Enguarde instead of replacing them with Hoofer and Orco. Donkey Kong Racing (a cancelled game for GCN) showed Rambis in varying sizes. Tiny Kong rides a small Rambi while DK rides a big Rambi.
Also, think about it... Snapjaws are crocodile-like toys that act as enemies in Donkey Kong Jr. Kremlings are anthromorphic crocodiles that act as enemies in the Donkey Kong Country series. What do they have in common? They are enemy crocodiles which is why I believe Kremlings (especially Klaptraps) were inspired by Snapjaws.
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on Nov 19, 2008 5:20:09 GMT -5
Donkey Kong Conutry 3 didn't have Rambi either, though, did it? Whats the difference?
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