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Post by Koopaul on Jun 23, 2009 15:08:50 GMT -5
Well yeah we can't say for all games.
I think the Miyamoto Princesses are always going to be in that situation honestly.
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Post by Boo Destroyer on Jun 23, 2009 15:22:44 GMT -5
Beside: as cool as it would be to play as Zelda, and I totally agree that a redesign/reimagining with her as the hero would rock, people would just wonder where the hell Link is and get pissed off. You know it's true. Actually, they'll be so very original and have Zelda save Link this time around. |
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Post by Wildcat on Jun 23, 2009 18:29:13 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2009 10:01:36 GMT -5
I don't think the bulk of you understood what I meant about Zelda becoming a playable character in her series. I distinctly mentioned, in my blog post, that co-op gaming is the way of the future - and co-op usually implies more than one character. (Usually, though Four S-words has proven that Nintendo will do just about anything to avoid putting a Zelda into a useful role.)
@man-Frog, I call bullshit on your bullshit-call, because the instant we found out Tetra and Shiek were Zelda, they got The Usual Treatment (kidnapped, sequestered, popping up at the very end of the story to help deus ex machina Ganondorf). Not to mention that in Phantom Hourglass, we knew from the start that Tetra was Zelda, so she got encased in stone and served as nothing but a prop for the entire game. Even as soon as she's returned from being a rock she gets knocked the fuck out...proving that, regardless of context, a known Zelda is is completely useless. It's less misogyny than it is a lack of originality on Nintendo's part, but even unintentional misogyny is misogyny.
My point is, Zelda is a hollow character, even for a Nintendo game (where their only cast with something resembling real personalities are from Star Fox), who follows a set, defunct archetype for a fictional female character. Nintendo can do better than that - they just aren't. There's a thing about fixing things that aren't broken.
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Post by Manspeed on Jun 25, 2009 11:21:21 GMT -5
It matters little if they're operating under a different guise, as far as I'm concerned, they're still Zelda. I'd like to see you make a case for Peach being any better.  |
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Post by Hiker of Games on Jun 25, 2009 12:11:00 GMT -5
Easy.
SMB1/Lost Levels - She's kidnapped, does nothing.
SMB2 - She's playable, though the weakest of the characters. Makes up for it with magic skirt powers.
SMB3 - Sends Mario helpful letters through the entire game, but is kidnapped at the end.
SMBW - Provides powerups in the final battle, despite being kidnapped.
SMRPG - Kidnapped initially, but later playable.
SM64 - Kidnapped, does nothing.
PM - Kidnapped, but works behind the scenes to help Mario.
M&L - Pretends to have her voice stolen. Kidnapped temporarily. Provides support throughout the game.
SMS - Kidnapped frequently. This is actually pretty bad for Peach.
PM2 - Kidnapped again, but works behind the scenes to help Mario. Is naked at several points.
SPP - Peach is playable through the whole thing, powered by crazy woman hormones.
NSMB - Kidnapped again.
M&L2 - Peach manages to imprison the Elder Shroob Princess (no easy task), but gets kidnapped and impersonated.
SPM - She gets kidnapped, but so does Bowser and Luigi. She's the first to join Mario as a playable character.
SMG - Kidnapped again, but sends secret letters to Mario.
For reference, I striked out the roles where she does nothing. Italics are examples of her being kidnapped. Bold are when she is playable (excluding PM/PM2).
Apply that to Zelda.
LoZ - Kidnapped, does nothing.
AoL - Asleep, does nothing.
ALttP - Provides telepathic help, kidnapped twice.
OoT - Crossdresses to help Link, kidnapped at the end.
Oracles - Shows up to Holodrum/Labrynna just to get kidnapped.
TWW - Helps Link out early on, gets kidnapped, fights in the final battle.
FS - Kidnapped.
FSA - Kidnapped.
TMC - Frozen in stone.
TP - Minor supporting role. Gets kidnapped AND possessed. Ouch.
PH - Frozen in stone.
Peach has four games where she is utterly and totally useless. She has two games where she even avoids getting kidnapped, even for a little while.
Zelda is utterly useless in seven games. That's seven games in even less games than Peach has been in. There's not a single game where she doesn't, at some point, get swept off by Ganon to his evil castle. It just doesn't happen.
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Post by Fryguy64 on Jun 25, 2009 12:36:06 GMT -5
We back on this again? Is that two topics?
ANYWAY! Because I can't give a toss about people moaning how Peach is always kidnapped...
I think Nintendo needs to put out some more point-and-click style games, perhaps reviving some of their old franchises for a worldwide audience. And Level 5 or Capcom would be good for this.
Fancy Fact: Did you know Cing (Another Code, Hotel Dusk) and Level 5 (Professor Layton) are two teams that split off from the same company? THE MORE YOU KNOW!
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Post by Hiker of Games on Jun 25, 2009 13:39:09 GMT -5
They'd certainly find a home as episodic games on WiiWare and DSiWare.
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regiwi
Pikpik Carrot
Make sure you get my good side... oh wait, I only have good sides!
Posts: 53
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Post by regiwi on Jun 25, 2009 16:03:54 GMT -5
I think Nintendo needs to put out some more point-and-click style games, perhaps reviving some of their old franchises for a worldwide audience. And Level 5 or Capcom would be good for this. A new Gumshoe game? I mean I really can't imagine a game like the original working in 3d, but this is a way they could take a long forgotten character, and give him a new lease of life. I'd love to see a sandbox style cop game, with point and click style puzzles which make it more dependant on people figuring out from the puzzles where they need to go and who they need to talk to etc. So you go to crime scenes etc, look at the evidence and follow up leads whilst sometimes having to do more action oriented parts like car chases and shootouts etc. Or of course they could just take the traditional point and click route. As for who would do it? Well Capcom's got good experience with point and click mysteries (Specifically PW), but I really don't know tbh. |
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Post by Savage Adam on Jun 25, 2009 16:36:56 GMT -5
You know what needs to happen?
A Wario and Waluigi point-and-click developed by Telltale Games.
Someone tell me that wouldn't be awesome.
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Post by Hiker of Games on Jun 25, 2009 17:00:19 GMT -5
That would be so amazing. Take that idea and combine it with regiwi's and you have a sure fire hit. Wario and Waluigi, Private Detectives for hire! Hilarity ensues.
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Post by Da Robot on Jun 25, 2009 19:00:38 GMT -5
I was reading the NeoGAF forum for this topic when a poster there came up with an epic combernation.
Suda 51 (Killer 7, No More Heroes and many others)
+
Shigesato Itoi (EarthBound/Mother)
=
AWESOME!
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Post by parrothead on Jun 26, 2009 2:49:19 GMT -5
For creating this next Metroid, I would say either buy the now defunct 3D Realms or get SEGA/Sammy to help. For other games, I would say G-Mode. Paon is part of Nintendo and they bought the rights to Data East's Chelnov (a.k.a. Atomic Runner) and The Glory of Heracles series, while the The Glory of Heracles DS is announced for release worldwide. G-Mode owns nearly everyone of Data East's library of games. I believe Nintendo, Paon and G-Mode should work on bringing back Data East. JOE N MAC 3D MMORPG >  I'm not sure about that, but I'd like to see a Data East Collection for all platforms available, showing all official versions of every Data East game, excluding licensed ones like Captain America & The Avengers, since that would cost extra. When the Americans think of Data East, they mostly think of BurgerTime, Bad Dudes VS. DragonNinja (especially the NES version), Karnov and the Fighter's History series. When the Japanese think of Data East, they think of every Data East game represented in the Data East X SunSoft fan video. |
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Post by Fryguy64 on Jun 26, 2009 2:58:01 GMT -5
A new Gumshoe game? I mean I really can't imagine a game like the original working in 3d, but this is a way they could take a long forgotten character, and give him a new lease of life. I'd love to see a sandbox style cop game, with point and click style puzzles which make it more dependant on people figuring out from the puzzles where they need to go and who they need to talk to etc. So you go to crime scenes etc, look at the evidence and follow up leads whilst sometimes having to do more action oriented parts like car chases and shootouts etc. Or of course they could just take the traditional point and click route. As for who would do it? Well Capcom's got good experience with point and click mysteries (Specifically PW), but I really don't know tbh. No, not a new Gumshoe game... Gumshoe was a Light Gun shooter, not a point-and-click... I'd much rather they came out with a new franchise rather than try to shoehorn the silly cartoony Gumshoe game into a serious detective mystery. Also, the game you're describing sounds a LITTLE like Disaster: Day of Crisis. There isn't much in the way of solving mysteries, but you're torn between the quiet wandering and helping people, and then thrown into a range of action sequences, such as shooting or driving. So perhaps Monolith could step in and take care of such a title. The games I was referring to were those like Shin Onigashima and Famicom Detective Club. They'd work really well as remakes now on the DS, especially now that several second and third parties have shown how it should be done right (Ace Attorney, Hotel Dusk, etc.) |
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Post by Arcadenik on Jun 28, 2009 8:00:14 GMT -5
You know, I'm kinda surprised Nintendo hasn't used those FDS text adventure games for the DS. The DS is perfect for the text adventure genre. It would have been fun playing Shin Onigashima, Yuu Yuu Ki, and Tantei Club. Today American gamers are probably more open to the Japanese culture than 30 years ago so what's keeping Nintendo from reviving those games?
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