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Post by Fryguy64 on Jan 27, 2011 18:05:17 GMT -5
NinDB is 10 years old this year, and I've been doing a bit of catching up. Namely, I've been beating some of the games I've known about for years but never got around to doing. So, over the last week I've completed: Dream Factory: Dokidoki PanicAll 4 characters played through to the end for the real ending! I used Papa (Toad) to play all the way through, but used Warps for the other three characters. If you beat the game with 1-3 characters, they jump in and free the Subcon (Muu) from the jar. When all 4 characters have beaten it, they stand on top of a cage containing Piki & Poki (the twins) as Wart (Mamu) is passed underneath and beaten up off screen in almost the exact same way as SMB2. No sleeping Mario or cast roll though. Interestingly, the story suggests that the game takes place in a story book, and the last page (Mamu's surrender) is ripped out by Piki & Poki (the twins) as they squabble over it. This is what makes the hand comes out. And this explains why World 7 only has 2 levels! Intriguing! All Night Nippon Super Mario Bros.Well, I played through Worlds 1-8 without using Warp Zones... I didn't get a World 9 though, as I'd have expected from a game so close to SMB2j... I also didn't beat it the 8 times required to get Worlds A-D, although I understand they're the same as the ones from SMB2j. Essentially, it's Super Mario Bros. running on the SMB2j engine, and all "repeated" levels and the final castle have been replaced with SMB2j's... Once you get over the OMG of the sprite replacements, it's pretty boring (and unsurprisingly, with some jarring difficulty spikes halfway through). Miho Nakayama's Heartbeat High SchoolI wasn't expecting to ever play through this one. However, I did find a couple of resources that together helped me play through to the end... while writing an English guide for it. Coming soon! Considering that it came after Shin Onigashima, the game seems extremely short. It even seems short compared to Shin Onigashima Part 1 (as Tokimeki High School is just one Disk). Adding insult to injury, there are two endings: "Blue Ribbon" is the bad ending, and "Red Ribbon" is the good ending... and then there's two variations on the Red Ribbon ending depending on a minor choice you make halfway through the game. The ribbons refer to the "gift" that appears on your file after beating the game. As it was a blue disk game, you could submit your times for getting both endings to Nintendo. ------------------------------------------------- That's what I've been up to anyway. Oh yes, and also writing articles. And they've become proper articles. So back to hacking up NinDB for spare parts again!
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Post by Fryguy64 on Feb 7, 2011 6:34:44 GMT -5
Huh, I thought someone might ask a question or two. Oh well.
Anyway, I've just completed the write-up and walkthrough for Miho Nakayama's Heartbeat Highschool. Hoping to get it all online very shortly. I want to make a couple of additions to Shin Onigashima and Yuuyuuki first.
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Post by Wildcat on Feb 7, 2011 11:32:59 GMT -5
I did enjoy reading them! Actually, I found the insights into Doki Doki Panic and All Night Nippon SMB interesting, as I've written about them myself (without playing them, mind). I do have a question:
I'm confused by what I bolded - did you mean page?
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Post by Fryguy64 on Feb 7, 2011 11:37:07 GMT -5
In the intro to Dokidoki Panic, it looks as if Piki & Poki are just reading when Mamu/Wart's hand emerges from the book and grabs them.
In the manual story, however, they tear out the last page while squabbling over the book, and it's because they tore out the page where Mamu/Wart's surrenders, he reaches out of the book and grabs them.
That's what I meant by that anyway.
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Post by nocturnal YL on Feb 7, 2011 12:00:10 GMT -5
Congrats for actually trying those text games, Fry. I tried, but the Famicom interface didn't appeal to me. I ended up trying only the Super Famicom ones and have beaten only Famicom Detective Club Part II (if Metal Slader Glory doesn't count).
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Post by Wildcat on Feb 7, 2011 13:35:48 GMT -5
In the intro to Dokidoki Panic, it looks as if Piki & Poki are just reading when Mamu/Wart's hand emerges from the book and grabs them. In the manual story, however, they tear out the last page while squabbling over the book, and it's because they tore out the page where Mamu/Wart's surrenders, he reaches out of the book and grabs them. That's what I meant by that anyway. Ah, that makes more sense. Thanks!
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Post by Fryguy64 on Feb 9, 2011 18:13:12 GMT -5
I just beat Sin & Punishment on N64 for the first time after owning it on VC for years now... and I think I just blew the storyline part of my brain.
If games are all relative... The Zelda storyline makes perfect logical sense up against this madness!!
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Post by Nester the Lark on Feb 9, 2011 18:30:14 GMT -5
^ The thing is, even if you understand the storyline, it still doesn't make a lot of sense.
And the secret extended ending of Sin & Punishment 2 assumes that you're familiar with the first game.
Come to think of it, the stories in most of Treasure's games (when they have stories) are nearly incomprehensible.
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Post by Fryguy64 on Feb 10, 2011 9:59:25 GMT -5
So... There's a bunch of Earths in "Inner Space". Beings known as Gods/Creators control these Earths and raise humans on them to become fighters in their ancient war against "Outer Space". If humans live peacefully and fail to become strong fighters, then the Gods engineer disasters to restore what they perceive as balance.
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In Sin & Punishment, taking place on Earth-2 (as I understand), peace led to prosperity led to overpopulation. A new food source was created which mutated and became the Ruffians. Despite the widespread destruction, the Ruffians created strong human fighters plus reduced the human overpopulation.
Into this mess, an agent from Outer Space was sent to Earth-2 who took the form of a human girl named Achi. Her otherworldly powers and blood that could heal people and give them extraordinary abilities led to the formation of the rebels, of whom Saki was considered to have the most potential. Achi's goal is to destroy the Gods/Creators.
Achi activates Saki's transformation into a giant and powerful monster, and uses Airan to access his heart and control him. However, Saki and Airan are able to control the transformation and defy Achi. Achi transforms into a duplicate of Earth and attempts to destroy the original, but Saki destroys the duplicate.
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In Sin & Punishment 2 the G5/Nebulox act as agents for the Gods/Creators, and Isa (son of Saki and Airan and inheritor of Saki's Outer Space blood) works as an agent for the G5/Nebulox. An agent from Outer Space lands on Earth-4 and Isa is sent to destroy it, but he just finds a girl with amnesia. He names her Kachi and refuses to destroy her.
Earth-4 was also subject to a natural disaster, where artificial lifeforms known as Keepers were created to protect the planet and restore balance.
Kachi and Isa become friends and fight the G5/Nebulox forces as they try to escape the planet. Eventually, Isa transforms into a giant monster, as his father did, and Kachi accesses his heart and allows him to control his ability. He destroys the G5/Nebulox and returns to Earth-4 where he and Kachi become separate again.
And then... Spoiler... Kachi reveals that she remembers that she used to be called Achi... And the reveal insinuates that the amnesia was possibly faked so she could use Saki's son to mount the war on the Gods/Creators.
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Post by Wildcat on Feb 10, 2011 11:42:42 GMT -5
That seems SOMEWHAT understandable. Haven't played either game, though, so maybe it makes more sense out-of-context.
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Post by Nester the Lark on Feb 10, 2011 13:37:34 GMT -5
The thing is, there's a nice little plot for a shmup somewhere in there. But then it goes a bit too far. In S&P1, they could've stopped at "Saki and Airan must fight the ruffians to save Japan," but then they add in all the stuff with the Armed Volunteers, and Achi, and the rest of the craziness. It really makes no sense of you go by just the in-game cutscenes. I actually thought the plot of S&P2 was a little more coherent, but still a little too out there. And [spoilers] I didn't get the sense that Kachi was faking her amnesia. But the way the tone of her voice changes when she says "Achi" leaves her ultimate motives somewhat ambiguous.[/spoilers] It does seem like it would lead into a third game, but considering how poorly S&P2 sold, it probably won't happen (or will be another 10 years before it does). Wow. Are we actually having a discussion about the plot to Sin & Punishment? Well, I appreciate the fact that they tried to come up with an original story, especially since shmups aren't known for their plots, but Treasure just isn't that good at it.
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Post by Fryguy64 on Feb 10, 2011 14:33:07 GMT -5
Wildcat - be aware that I am taking a lot of the reveals from S&P2 and applying them to S&P1. The original game's plot makes hardly any sense on its own. We are indeed having this conversation, Nester! I must admit, I'm kinda enjoying just trying to get my head around it at the mo. ;D You may be right about the spoiler ending. Although you could argue that Achi's original plan is a step further than it was before: She's acquired a super-powerful monster that she is able to control through its heart, and wiped out the elite warriors of the Gods (the G5, selected for being the best fighters). The biggest thing is that there's no obvious good or evil sides... In the S&P2 manual it's stated that the G5 agree to fight for the Gods so long as the humans on Earth-5 are no longer used as pawns in the war of the Gods, which is granted. The Gods created humanity but as tools, and we're not really sure what the motivations of the Outer-Space are, other than to kill the Gods. Even Isa starts off working for the bad guys because his dad is a giant monster with Outer-Space blood. What was Saki doing anyway? Destroying America? Leading the Ruffians? Unclear.
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Post by Nester the Lark on Feb 10, 2011 19:54:41 GMT -5
All right, I admit it. I care about the plot when I really like the game. It makes it easier to become endeared to the characters and the game world. We are indeed having this conversation, Nester! I must admit, I'm kinda enjoying just trying to get my head around it at the mo. ;D Beats the heck out of trying to figure out the Zelda timeline. You make a good point about Achi. But I kinda like the idea that viewing the opposition as an amnesiac might have compromised her motives. Like in the movie Total Recall.
Then again, I don't think it's ever explained how she got amnesia.[/spoilers]
That's a strange scene, but it happens during a dream. In the first game, Airan is shown a vision of the future where Saki is the leader of the Ruffians, and they're attacking New York. Does Isa's vision imply that that came true? Or is it just a vision of an alternate reality, as was implied in the original game?
Speaking of which, what happened to the Ruffians? Did Saki and Airan eradicate them? Is there any relation between the Ruffians and the Keepers?
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Post by Fryguy64 on Feb 11, 2011 5:03:43 GMT -5
Thing is, you know it's trying to have a symbolic story. It's about young love during adversity and what it means to be human... or something. But the symbolism is waist-deep in crazy Treasure boss battles that they've attempted to write into it... and hardly any exposition to tie the disparate elements together. Unlike Zelda, it's a hard puzzle that may have a solution. Zelda is a puzzle that even Nintendo can't assemble any more. I believe the implication is that the premonition from the first game came true, as not only does it give Isa the knowledge that he can become a monster that he actively suppresses, but he also refers to that scene in the ending when he says "Kachi's not a monster, Kachi's... Just Kachi" (referring to "Daddy's not a monster, Daddy's... Just Daddy") . I did wonder about the Ruffians and the Keepers. We know both the Ruffians and the Keepers were manmade, and they mutated and rebelled against humankind. We know in addition that the rebellion of the Keepers was also engineered by the Gods. So I extract from this that the same was true of the Ruffians. The Keepers on Earth-4 is referred to as a "failure" by one of the G5 members. Probably because, rather than keeping human numbers steady, it wiped them out and left the planet open to an attack from Outer-Space. While Earth-2 was attacked during the disaster when Achi arrived but that didn't work out so well.
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Post by ville10 on Feb 11, 2011 14:11:59 GMT -5
When I stumbled across this discussion I just had to sign up (though I realized that I already had an account, weird...), ever since I reached the hidden ending I have been twisting my head around the story! I'm not sure if you have seen it, but the European site has a extremely long story section. It makes it pretty clear that Kachi really did lose her memory. I'm not sure what the text comes from, but as the Creators are referred to as the Gods, I guess that it's translated from some Japanese text. Here it is: www.nintendo.co.uk/NOE/en_GB/games/wii/sin_and_punishment_successor_of_the_skies_13571.htmlOne thing that I can't figure out is what Achi's role actually is. The end of the first game makes it clear that she was planning to use Saki to fight the Gods, and at least from the translation I've read it seems like it's she personally that is planning the war. She also is aware of Isa long before he's born. Who is she exactly? And why did she come alone to the fourth earth if she truly do have a high position? The thing she say in the ending of the first game, "The enemy is coming", also seems to suggest that the Gods are planning something but what? So many questions... I demand a third game, regardless of sales!
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