Moves to be updated

[Deleted]

With Mario's Down+B move replaced by a move based on a more recent game, what other moves would be replaced, and with what? I mean, there's been a fuck load of new games between SSBB and Melee, so I expect a lot of moves to be updated. So far, we have FLUDD, Bongos, etc etc etc

So I want to hear your thoughts. Start talking, you bunch of sexy tingles Nintendo geeks! ;D

[Snuka7]

Peach with here VIBES!
That is a must!
Calm
Rage
Joy
Gloom
And then Perry! Come On SAKURAI!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D

[NinjaRygar]

Peach should have a different Fwd+B. That butt attack is not only useless, but it's just a dumb move. Hitting you with her butt and then there's an explosion? They can do better.

Pikachu shouldn't have skull bash. If I remember correctly... Pikachu doesn't even learn Skull Bash unless you use a TM. I'm not sure what it should be... but I'm sure they can come up with something. I doubt it'll be changed though.

Donkey Kong should have a different Up+B. That spinning move looks dumb for Donkey Kong really... and it's just an annoying move. It looks ridiculous and since Jungle Beat was very arial game... I think they can come up with something different.

Ness, (should he return) should have PK flash changed to PSI Rockin. Or (maybe since PSI Rockin can be Ness's Final Smash) they should rethink how PK Flash works.

Zelda's only good move is her Down+B. I hope they fix that somehow. The moves themselves are well thought out though... so my only complaint is how Zelda isn't very good.

Luigi... even if they DON'T declone him (Which I'm certain they will) they absolutely MUST give him a different Fwd+B attack. That missle thing (Which is just Pikachu's skull bash) is such a dumb thing for Luigi to be doing. Luigi needs to be redone all together. Declone him, and make him more like Luigi! Give him his own voice, and get rid of the crap like his fwd+B and some of his win poses. Needless to say... Luigi needs work.

And Ganondorf.... just goes without saying. Him being a clone was the worst thing about Melee.... since ganondorf wouldn't be caught dead doing ANY of those moves in a Zelda game. Acrobatic flip kicks and flashy martial arts is not Ganondorf's style. Hopefully he uses some magic this time....

The rest of the moves... were pretty well thought out. I have no real complaints with any of them. Mario's Down+B would have been on my list... and I'm glad to see they changed it to something with more of a history to it. And I know I mention alot of the moves for being useless... but there are some useless moves that are thought out enough and unique enough not to have to be changed... Like Mr. Game & Watch's Oil Panic, Mewtwo's psychic moves, and so on. There's history behind them, so even though they're not good, there's a reason for them to be there. And characters who had to have movesets made from scratch don't bother me either... like Fire Emblem charcters, or Sheik's moveset. They're fine the way they are, as long as there are no more clones.

[Deleted]

If Sakurai ends up making Luigi a goofy character (which is the solution to decloning him), then they'll probably keep Luigi Rocket, and trash Pika's Skull Bash altogether. It'll definately fix things up in that area.

[TV Eye]

Luigi needs the Poltergust, and the electric attacks from Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga.

Pretty sure the Poltergust will be in, but I'm skeptical about the latter.

[Manspeed]

Hmmm....

Donkey Kong
-Donkey Kong is pretty much good to go, but I think they should replace his Headbutt Forward B with the Coconut Shooter, to add a little pizzaz to what would be an otherwise run-of-the mill moveset.
-They could also replace his foot shove running attack with his trademark roll from DKC. It seems more practical.

Link
-We've already seen what sort of changed Link has, but if they weren't sticking to Twilight Princess references, I'd want them to allow Link to shoot beams out of the Master Sword at 0% damage.

Samus
-Samus isn't packing half the heat she does in her respective games. Her B move should be handled just like shooting in Metroid. You should be able to run and shoot at the same time, and hold the button down to charge it up.
-Down B should be changed to actual Morph Ball. Pressing the button would curl Samus into ball, after which you can roll left or right and press B to drop bombs or press A to return to normal.

Yoshi
-Yoshi's regular B should have longer reach and allow him to run around while holding an opponent in his mouth. Then you'd be able to either spit the player out or swallow them (like Kirby) which would turn them into an egg. The eggs should also be able to be knocked around, possibly off the stage.
-We now know that the Up B doubles as a third jump, but I would've changed it so that instead of launching a slighty steerable egg upwards, it would make the cursor from YI appear, and you'd have to hold the button to aim and release it to shoot the egg, which would rocket off in the same manner as it did in YI, being able to bounce off obstacles.
-The Down B should produce dust clouds rather than tiny Warpstars. Purely cosmetic, but it sorta bugs me.
-The grab should become a Tether Recovery.

Kirby
-First off, the Copy ability. Kirby should be able to walk with an inhaled opponent in his mouth. Secondly, he should be able to copy more than just one move. Perhaps copy all the swallowed player's special moves or even their entire moveset.
-The Hammer Forward B needs more versatility. Pressing the buttons once will the bring the hammer down in a forward swing. Holding the button would procude a charged swing like in KSS. Using it in mid-air would result in a slow spinning swing. Using it while running would make a quick rotating attack a la the Ice Climbers, and also from KSS. Using while jumping after running would make the spinning swing go faster and hit more, like in KSS.
-I'm not sure how well it would work, but the Cutter Up B could be changed do that it produces a series of quick slashes before the upward sweep when it's used right in front of the other player, sorta like the Cutter combo from KSS.
-The Burning running attack should either be made more precise and less slippery, or changed back to the head slide from SSB64.

Luigi
-He should waggle his feet when he jumps like in SMB2. Helps to differentiate.
-Down B should be replaced with the Poltergust 3000, and since hte FLUDD pushes the opponents away, this move would do the oppostie and pull them closer.

[Dances in Undergarments]

robert said:

-First off, the Copy ability. Kirby should be able to walk with an inhaled opponent in his mouth. Secondly, he should be able to copy more than just one move. Perhaps copy all the swallowed player's special moves or even their entire moveset.

He can walk with an inhaled opponent. And no, absolutely not. Stealing only b attacks is fine.

[NinjaRygar]

You have some good ideas Robbypants and I agree with most of them except....

If Link could shoot sword beams at 0% damage that would be cool... but that also means that, while he's at 0%... he's more likely to stay at 0%. In Smash Brothers... it seems like a characters moveset must absolutely not be effected by their percentage. In fact... in VERY rare circumstances will a character in any fighting game change their moves according to their health. (If they do they're usually CPU controlled... and they usually get better as their damage goes up... not worse.) Because it's not a good idea.

If Samus were able to shoot projectiles like she can in Metroid... she'd be an unstopable killing machine. She'd be such a broken character people would return Brawl around the country because it's not playable. It would be called "The biggest dissapointment since Soul Calibur III" and would score a 4/10 on most websites. If she had the ability to spam a never ending stream of projectiles while moving... without startup or recovery time between each shot... there would be no stopping her. Try to imagine it in your head... I understand the superscope will be like this... but it's an item first of all....and has limited ammo. If Samus could do that at ANY time with NO LIMITS..... you get the picture.
Excellent idea about the morph ball though, and I wouldn't be surprised if they did it that way.

Yoshi's eggs can't be knocked around for a reason. It might be TOO easy to get that instant KO. He has it right now but it can be easilly avoided with directional influence... and is easy to see coming while Yoshi is standing on the edge. If Yoshi can kick you around while in the egg though... his whole fight will revolve around that move. It's fine the way it is. It works. It's practical without being cheap.

And lastly... you're asking way too much out of Kirby by asking for other B moves or entire movesets. Kirby being able to steal one move is enough. If he were to steal entire movesets, that means instead of inhaling the enemy... you might as well have just picked that character, since you're creating a smaller, lighter version of your enemy to play as. Not only that, but think of the production time! Just one move means they have to make one new kirby animation for every character they add (which can be quite a task) but if he stole 4 times the moves... or entire movesets... they'd have to make 2 new movesets for every new character they add... one for the character and one for Kirby AS that character.
It's not uncommon for a fighting game character to use such a technique.. Shang Tsung turned into his foes... and you could turn into your foe while playing as Akari in Last Blade 2, or Twelve in Street Fighter III... but that's different... because they didn't have to make new spritesets... that character just BECAME the other.... using the same sprites (twelve used his own pallete and a deformed voice but still used the same sprites). Having one character COSPLAY as his foe and steal his entire moveset... is something you'll NEVER see. One move is a daunting enough task, I'm sure. Plus there are gameplay reasons too that probably go more in depth... but... you get the idea.

I'm totally with you on most of your other ideas though.

[Smashchu]

Alright. opinion time.

ninjarygar said:

Peach should have a different Fwd+B. That butt attack is not only useless, but it's just a dumb move. Hitting you with her butt and then there's an explosion? They can do better.

Agreed. Or, at leastr make it not suck

Pikachu shouldn't have skull bash. If I remember correctly... Pikachu doesn't even learn Skull Bash unless you use a TM. I'm not sure what it should be... but I'm sure they can come up with something. I doubt it'll be changed though.

Thought it was Headbut(which he learns). I'll look it up, but they should keep it.

Donkey Kong should have a different Up+B. That spinning move looks dumb for Donkey Kong really... and it's just an annoying move. It looks ridiculous and since Jungle Beat was very arial game... I think they can come up with something different.

Disagree

They should also change the Foward B

Ness, (should he return) should have PK flash changed to PSI Rockin. Or (maybe since PSI Rockin can be Ness's Final Smash) they should rethink how PK Flash works.

I kind of want Lucas. But yeah, PSI Blank is Final Smash.

Zelda's only good move is her Down+B. I hope they fix that somehow. The moves themselves are well thought out though... so my only complaint is how Zelda isn't very good.

I'm split on this on. I could go either way. So I will
For Sheik:It wou7ldn't be hard to make a new desing for Sheik and to bring her back. In all honesty, it gaver her a uniqueness that ZSS could never copy. You can change at will, allowing you to flow like the battle does
Against:Sheik is not in TP. That about sums it up. It would just feel really stran ge having Sheik in with TP Zelda. TP Zelda was magic out the wazzo. It was really magic madness. Sheik in general would feel akward.

Luigi... even if they DON'T declone him (Which I'm certain they will) they absolutely MUST give him a different Fwd+B attack. That missle thing (Which is just Pikachu's skull bash) is such a dumb thing for Luigi to be doing. Luigi needs to be redone all together. Declone him, and make him more like Luigi! Give him his own voice, and get rid of the crap like his fwd+B and some of his win poses. Needless to say... Luigi needs work.

Luigi=/=Clone. He is "Luigified" which means hes like another character, but verries a great deal. Thats what they should do to Falco actually.

But I think Luigi is fine. He fits is persona. He is more arial then Mario in everything (he always jumps higher) and that's how he is in Melee.

And Ganondorf.... just goes without saying. Him being a clone was the worst thing about Melee.... since ganondorf wouldn't be caught dead doing ANY of those moves in a Zelda game. Acrobatic flip kicks and flashy martial arts is not Ganondorf's style. Hopefully he uses some magic this time....

Sword. That about sums it up

Donkey Kong
-Donkey Kong is pretty much good to go, but I think they should replace his Headbutt Forward B with the Coconut Shooter, to add a little pizzaz to what would be an otherwise run-of-the mill moveset.
-They could also replace his foot shove running attack with his trademark roll from DKC. It seems more practical.

Yes to everything but the Coconut Shooter. There are better >B moves.

Link
-We've already seen what sort of changed Link has, but if they weren't sticking to Twilight Princess references, I'd want them to allow Link to shoot beams out of the Master Sword at 0% damage.

O.o

Samus
-Samus isn't packing half the heat she does in her respective games. Her B move should be handled just like shooting in Metroid. You should be able to run and shoot at the same time, and hold the button down to charge it up.
-Down B should be changed to actual Morph Ball. Pressing the button would curl Samus into ball, after which you can roll left or right and press B to drop bombs or press A to return to normal.

No the missles (makes her overpowered) but yes to0 morph ball. Of course, thinking on it, it may be no better. But hey, it adds a little extra to it. Just let the bomb move stay the same in the air. It made a great recovery and I've seen it work well for players coming down

Yoshi
-Yoshi's regular B should have longer reach and allow him to run around while holding an opponent in his mouth. Then you'd be able to either spit the player out or swallow them (like Kirby) which would turn them into an egg. The eggs should also be able to be knocked around, possibly off the stage.
-We now know that the Up B doubles as a third jump, but I would've changed it so that instead of launching a slighty steerable egg upwards, it would make the cursor from YI appear, and you'd have to hold the button to aim and release it to shoot the egg, which would rocket off in the same manner as it did in YI, being able to bounce off obstacles.
-The Down B should produce dust clouds rather than tiny Warpstars. Purely cosmetic, but it sorta bugs me.
-The grab should become a Tether Recovery.

Yes to everything but the Up B. I like it as it is.

Kirby
-First off, the Copy ability. Kirby should be able to walk with an inhaled opponent in his mouth. Secondly, he should be able to copy more than just one move. Perhaps copy all the swallowed player's special moves or even their entire moveset.
-The Hammer Forward B needs more versatility. Pressing the buttons once will the bring the hammer down in a forward swing. Holding the button would procude a charged swing like in KSS. Using it in mid-air would result in a slow spinning swing. Using it while running would make a quick rotating attack a la the Ice Climbers, and also from KSS. Using while jumping after running would make the spinning swing go faster and hit more, like in KSS.
-I'm not sure how well it would work, but the Cutter Up B could be changed do that it produces a series of quick slashes before the upward sweep when it's used right in front of the other player, sorta like the Cutter combo from KSS.
-The Burning running attack should either be made more precise and less slippery, or changed back to the head slide from SSB64.

No to everything

Luigi
-He should waggle his feet when he jumps like in SMB2. Helps to differentiate.
-Down B should be replaced with the Poltergust 3000, and since hte FLUDD pushes the opponents away, this move would do the oppostie and pull them closer.

Legs moving should be second jump. Seems to work for me.

But I'm surprised no one mentioned MEWTWO.

He's not bad, but his special moves could be SO much better. For one, his >B needs to reflect projectiles. It does, but they don't hurt you. He's defwensive, so this would greatly increase his potential. Allowing you to hurt your spamming foe. The other is his Down B. It either needs to be removed (best option) or be made so much better. It only works if opponent is facing you, at close range, and foer a second at best. What's the point? Needs to not suck.

[NinjaRygar]

Why does everyone want Ganondorf to use his sword so badly? To me... the boss fight in Ocarina of Time was his most memorable appearance and (if I were designing him) I would make his moves modeled off of that appearance.
I understand a sword fight between him and Link is what everyone wants, but I think Ganondorf fighting Link unarmed, and using magic makes him more unique. I understand he uses a sword in most of his recent appearances... but I think we have enough Sword weilders already.. and Ganondorf's normal moves need to make him appear more than "just another sword guy."
He'll probably get the sword. And I won't be upset about it or anything, just figured I'd let you know what I thought about it.

And I definately meant that I want Zelda and Sheik seperate. I just meant that Zelda's moves need work.

I know people say that Luigi is not a clone. But let's face it. While he may not play like one... he is ANIMATED like one. He has more unique animations than your average clone... but running, jumping, grabbing, all of his throwing, sheilding, 3 of his B moves, Up Smash, Down Smash... ect.... it's still not enough you see. He still has most of Mario's animations. It would be fine if he had only a few... but Mario is obviously used as the "framework" for Luigi and that is what makes him a clone. Luigi could have even MORE unique animations... hopefully for all of his B moves and his throws. What makes his worse (much worse actually) is Luigi's voice. He does not sound like Luigi. He sounds like Mario with the pitch turned up... which is innapropriate since Luigi has his own very distinct voice. Listen to him in Mariokart. That's what he should sound like... and would make him less of a clone. His voice is what bothers me the most.
On top of all that... I think there's something left about him, which just seems off... and I'm sure it will be fixed. Problem is I can't really put my finger on it... but... he doesn't really "look" like Luigi either. It's something in his face... that really makes him look more like a clone. Like... something about his design is "off" but I don't know exactly what it is. If you drew a picture of Luigi... it would not have the same face as mario... yet Luigi in Smash brothers looks like he has Mario's exact face just "scaled" to be taller.... it's hard to explain but I'm sure in Brawl his design will be tweaked. (I wonder if anybody has ANY idea what I'm talking about...)

[Solid Snake]

^ Acually I like Luigi's voice from Melee, it makes him sound crazy he's funny.

[TV Eye]

ninjarygar said:

Why does everyone want Ganondorf to use his sword so badly? To me... the boss fight in Ocarina of Time was his most memorable appearance and (if I were designing him) I would make his moves modeled off of that appearance.
I understand a sword fight between him and Link is what everyone wants, but I think Ganondorf fighting Link unarmed, and using magic makes him more unique. I understand he uses a sword in most of his recent appearances... but I think we have enough Sword weilders already.. and Ganondorf's normal moves need to make him appear more than "just another sword guy."
He'll probably get the sword. And I won't be upset about it or anything, just figured I'd let you know what I thought about it.

Well, yes, he did use a sword in Twilight Princess, and since Link and Zleda are modeled after their TP design, then Ganondorf will as well.

BUT, he is more different than the average sword user. For instance, he is f**king tall. I mean, in Twilight Princess he was over 8 feet it looked like.

That means, he will use more body attacks, suck as slams and such. Don't get me wrong though, he did use magic in TP, so there is no doubt that will be in there.

[Hiker of Games]

Ganondorf also had a pretty long sword. He'd be like a more magical Ike, especially if he summons those electrical ball attacks from his sword. It'd be awesome if he could actually hurl those and sword users could deflect them. Get some Energy Ball hockey going!

[Smashchu]

ninjarygar said:

I know people say that Luigi is not a clone. But let's face it. While he may not play like one... he is ANIMATED like one. He has more unique animations than your average clone... but running, jumping, grabbing, all of his throwing, sheilding, 3 of his B moves, Up Smash, Down Smash... ect.... it's still not enough you see. He still has most of Mario's animations. It would be fine if he had only a few... but Mario is obviously used as the "framework" for Luigi and that is what makes him a clone. Luigi could have even MORE unique animations... hopefully for all of his B moves and his throws. What makes his worse (much worse actually) is Luigi's voice. He does not sound like Luigi. He sounds like Mario with the pitch turned up... which is innapropriate since Luigi has his own very distinct voice. Listen to him in Mariokart. That's what he should sound like... and would make him less of a clone. His voice is what bothers me the most.
On top of all that... I think there's something left about him, which just seems off... and I'm sure it will be fixed. Problem is I can't really put my finger on it... but... he doesn't really "look" like Luigi either. It's something in his face... that really makes him look more like a clone. Like... something about his design is "off" but I don't know exactly what it is. If you drew a picture of Luigi... it would not have the same face as mario... yet Luigi in Smash brothers looks like he has Mario's exact face just "scaled" to be taller.... it's hard to explain but I'm sure in Brawl his design will be tweaked. (I wonder if anybody has ANY idea what I'm talking about...)

Again, not a clone.

You need to remembe rthat it's a running thing that Luigi acts like alesser Mario. He mimicks them becuase they are always the same in games that have both of them. Luigi is suppose to act like Mario, in a way.

He's not a clone becuase there are only 6. They are the characters added to save time. Most opf them wetre just added to be clones.

[NinjaRygar]

smashchu2 said:

ninjarygar said:

I know people say that Luigi is not a clone. But let's face it. While he may not play like one... he is ANIMATED like one. He has more unique animations than your average clone... but running, jumping, grabbing, all of his throwing, sheilding, 3 of his B moves, Up Smash, Down Smash... ect.... it's still not enough you see. He still has most of Mario's animations. It would be fine if he had only a few... but Mario is obviously used as the "framework" for Luigi and that is what makes him a clone. Luigi could have even MORE unique animations... hopefully for all of his B moves and his throws. What makes his worse (much worse actually) is Luigi's voice. He does not sound like Luigi. He sounds like Mario with the pitch turned up... which is innapropriate since Luigi has his own very distinct voice. Listen to him in Mariokart. That's what he should sound like... and would make him less of a clone. His voice is what bothers me the most.
On top of all that... I think there's something left about him, which just seems off... and I'm sure it will be fixed. Problem is I can't really put my finger on it... but... he doesn't really "look" like Luigi either. It's something in his face... that really makes him look more like a clone. Like... something about his design is "off" but I don't know exactly what it is. If you drew a picture of Luigi... it would not have the same face as mario... yet Luigi in Smash brothers looks like he has Mario's exact face just "scaled" to be taller.... it's hard to explain but I'm sure in Brawl his design will be tweaked. (I wonder if anybody has ANY idea what I'm talking about...)

Again, not a clone.

You need to remembe rthat it's a running thing that Luigi acts like alesser Mario. He mimicks them becuase they are always the same in games that have both of them. Luigi is suppose to act like Mario, in a way.

He's not a clone becuase there are only 6. They are the characters added to save time. Most opf them wetre just added to be clones.

Yeah I understand.... there were reasons behind giving him the same animations as Mario... but that doesn't make him not a clone. That defines him as a clone... whether there were reasons behind it or not.
It was logical in Luigi's case... but that doesn't EXCUSE him from being one. And yes, he does have several unique animations for many of his basic attacks... but his clone animations outnumber his unique animations which makes him... a.... clone.

I was saying I hope this isn't the case in Brawl. I don't understand why anybody wouldn't agree.