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Post by Da Robot on Aug 2, 2010 4:00:44 GMT -5
This is what surprises me, there are devs out there who create there own twist on the "mon" games which will be targeted for "younger/everyone" demographic yet no developer has guts to make a "mature" game for the older generation who played Pokemon back in the late 1998-early 99 that could try improving/ deconstructing/parodying what Pokemon started. Pokemon is a world based around cock fighting *with creatures that (mostly) have elemental powers and are stored in devices that bend the fabric of space around them to store them (and also include teleportation abilities when you have to many) These creatures recover from battles due to a free health care system and all of this played out by children as young as 10** sent out from home, who parent(s) are oblivious to the various killer monsters lurking in the tall grass outside their home towns. I mean seriously, could you imagine leaving home and exploring the world at the age of 10 and have your parent's not really give a damn in the world? So what do you think of this? * Blood sport might be a better description** Unless "Youngster" trainer are less then that? |
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Post by Fryguy64 on Aug 2, 2010 4:20:24 GMT -5
When I played Pokemon Red, I was already "too old" for the Pokemon craze... and so were all the other people I played it with. We were also too old to get excited when Ash used Kingler in the Pokemon League, too old to buy spinoff games and clothes and little keychains.
And today, you can see it in the eyes of people when the subject comes up. People play it in private, trying not to let their eyes light up when the subject of Pokemon is raised.
And then there's me... who will talk about it freely, getting looks from my fellow Pokemon players that says "How do we stop him talking? I thought this was supposed to be a conspiracy!"
It's going to be a secret shame regardless, as the name itself is part of the conspiracy. The problem isn't that Nintendo produces this game for kids that adults also enjoy, but feel shame about enjoying. The problem is that things created for kids that adults can enjoy without shame is a very narrow band, mostly composed of Pixar movies. Hardly anyone will look at you funny for enjoying Up or Toy Story 3, because you're supposed to enjoy them with your own kids.
I guess the day when parents are playing Pokemon games with their own kids will be the day it'll all be OK.
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Post by Flip on Aug 2, 2010 11:22:37 GMT -5
Sort of like how now, finally, it's cool for dads and moms to walk around wearing Zelda t-shirts or dig up their NESes to pass off to their kids when they go to college. It's happening with my brother's friends (they're all 16/17), and it's kinda cool. I was in middle school when Pokemon came out (13yrs old, about), so I guess I was already "too old," but meh. I'm the biggest fanatic of my immediate circle, and we all play it. Though, I will admit, it's almost like admitting you have herpes when you tell a potential girl about it. Some are cool with it or blow it off as "whatever, he's a guy," though there are the odd girls that actually judge you for it, like you just told them you liked to have anal sex while wearing a clown nose and slathering yourself in Nutella. Though, this one chick I dated for a while not only thought it was cool, but ended up making "dates" of it where I'd come over and we'd swap hobbies: I'd teach her how to play Pokemon, she'd make me read Harry Potter. Worked out well, till about the time we broke up  |
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Post by Johans Nidorino on Aug 2, 2010 12:05:42 GMT -5
A few friends of mine make fun of me and how I like Pokémon. Others don't though... I guess it's a matter of how you talk about it when you're socializing. If you're way too fanboyish, start mentioning technical things instead of the basic ones, etc., then it might be unpleasant. Nowadays, when I go to local tournaments, gamer/otaku clubs, or talk about it via Messenger with local friends, they're mostly teenagers. And I bet some will "grow out" of Pokémon in a few years. I suppose this is what it feels like when you're a teacher in a school and nobody else but you and this year's students care about the subjects, right? I mean seriously, could you imagine leaving home and exploring the world at the age of 10 and have your parent's not really give a damn in the world? Not just that... Those kids think and feel like people 10 years older, and girls look like they have developed early. It's strange. |
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Post by kirbychu on Aug 2, 2010 14:29:44 GMT -5
Though, I will admit, it's almost like admitting you have herpes when you tell a potential girl about it. My last two girlfriends were/are huge Pokémon fans. It's great. |
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Post by Flip on Aug 2, 2010 16:11:20 GMT -5
Though, I will admit, it's almost like admitting you have herpes when you tell a potential girl about it. My last two girlfriends were/are huge Pokémon fans. It's great. Sounds like a nice perk xp I don't go out there expecting to meet women that are interested in my hobbies, but it's always awesome when they are |
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Post by mrmolecule on Aug 2, 2010 16:29:59 GMT -5
Excellent point. I liked Pokémon when I was an elementary-age student (back in '99) and when underground when I was in 5th grade. Now, it's more a cult classic thing, but I don't really buy Pokémon games anymore. For the record, I was betrayed when you couldn't transfer Generation II to III. And the classic 8-bit Pokémon is awesome. Classic graphics and tunes not found elsewhere. I'd love to see a way to transfer Pokémon from Generation I/II to the later ones would be awesome. (Pokémon Box should've been a ridiculously easy way to achieve that). In reality, though, there's nothing they can do to appeal to the older set that's not gimmicky or goes beyond t-shirts. Also, this seems oddly relevant. |
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Post by Johans Nidorino on Aug 2, 2010 17:04:56 GMT -5
I'd love to see a way to transfer Pokémon from Generation I/II to the later ones would be awesome. (Pokémon Box should've been a ridiculously easy way to achieve that). In reality, though, there's nothing they can do to appeal to the older set that's not gimmicky or goes beyond t-shirts. I always rooted for this to happen... But it was more practical a few years ago than today. Why would a 5G game be compatible with something as old as 10+ years if they're also skipping 3G compatibility? Not to mention the internal battery life of GB/GBC games. And that's also not counting that most people that kept playing Pokémon games already have a good collection of monsters from Ruby, Sapphire and onwards. Just like how the concept of Pokémon Pikachu was reincarnated as the Pokéwalker, the time machine could have been brought back in HeartGold/SoulSilver in some form, but I guess that's easier said than done. Very sad, especially for the shiny Pokémon you may have encountered in Gold/Silver/Crystal. |
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Post by 8bitretroshit on Aug 3, 2010 1:31:26 GMT -5
Yeah I pretty much lost my interest in the franchise for a few years when I heard I couldn't transfer my old team anymore. Anyway I THINK the reason you can't is because they revamped the EV thing in RSE and onward. |
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Post by kirbychu on Aug 3, 2010 4:54:58 GMT -5
The IV coding was completely revamped and changed from 16-bit to 32-bit. Basically, from generation 3 onwards, the data that makes up the Pokémon's individuality was doubled in size, meaning it was much more complex and intuitive, and the Sp. Attack and Defense stats were properly seperated instead of both drawing from the one Special stat. A Pokémon's gender used to be determined by it's Attack IV. High attack = male, low = female. Now that's determined seperately, meaning you can get a female with decent Attack stats from RSE onwards. Shininess was also determined by battle stats in GSC, in such a way that it was impossible for female starters to be shiny. So basically, they gave the system a much-needed overhaul, and Pokémon using the old system can't function on the new one. It's just not possible. If you look at how much trouble they went through trying to keep compatibility between RBY and GSC, and how messy and broken the code is as a result, you can see why they'd want to toss it out and start from scratch. |
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Post by Johans Nidorino on Aug 3, 2010 8:30:09 GMT -5
Haha, you guys are not talking about EVs or IVs, but PVs (personality values)  (Except the gender thing... It is true that the Attack IV used to determine the gender, but then again, it's now governed by PVs) It should be possible to update a Pokémon from a past generation, but some things would need to be added from thin air; mainly a random ability and a random nature, which are properties introduced in the third generation. Moves would be easy to be kept, as they'd be just data with no hard coding. Think of the possibilities! Old stuff like Pikachu having Skull Bash would still be possible, as well as Tri Attack Alakazam, and many Pokémon being compatible with the abusive Fissure. I guess gender, the shiny property and other things would be more challenging to keep mathematically. I don't think it'd be "absolutely impossible", but it could be complex enough to discourage the Pokémon staff from the idea of creating new software and even hardware just for this. |
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Post by Flip on Aug 5, 2010 10:12:20 GMT -5
It's just too complex to deal with, really. But it's funny we're talking about this, because I actually do remember reading that female Pokemon were intended to be "more defensive" while males were "more offensive." Now they're on equal paring and its the physical attributes that change between genders I wouldn't throw away any of the new additions for anything. Natures, abilities, gender differences, better graphics... it all makes the experience and the metagame soooo much sexier. But to go back to the way it felt when I first played RBY? That magical feeling of "holy fuck it's a bird throw a ball jesusfuck!!!11" or "what is this bull I've never seen before omg omg omg".... I wish that stuck around. It may just be my nostalgia talking, but I'd like to see them really try something new and BOLD to get that feeling back for the older fans. |
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Post by Johans Nidorino on Aug 5, 2010 10:27:21 GMT -5
But to go back to the way it felt when I first played RBY? That magical feeling of "holy fuck it's a bird throw a ball jesusfuck!!!11" or "what is this bull I've never seen before omg omg omg".... I wish that stuck around. It may just be my nostalgia talking, but I'd like to see them really try something new and BOLD to get that feeling back for the older fans. Masuda just said they're attempting that with Black and White by including only new Pokémon in the main quest. Thing is... would you resist not checking the data of each Pokémon ripped two days before the Japanese release? I bet no! We're ambitious for knowledge and can't stand not being aware of the news, especially when the Japanese release is still 6 months ahead of the American and PAL releases even after these years  |
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Post by kirbychu on Aug 6, 2010 7:51:56 GMT -5
It should be possible to update a Pokémon from a past generation, but some things would need to be added from thin air; mainly a random ability and a random nature, which are properties introduced in the third generation. More than that. The Pokémon's gender would be reassigned, their special attack/defense stats would be reset, and they'd lose their shininess. So basically, there'd be no point sending over your old Pokémon, because they wouldn't be your old Pokémon any more. They'd also be much weaker than most generation 3 Pokémon, since IVs could only range from 0-15 back then, while they're 0-31 now. The only way to combat it would be to build the code onto the Generation 2 code, making an already broken system even more broken. |
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Post by Johans Nidorino on Aug 6, 2010 9:06:16 GMT -5
More than that. The Pokémon's gender would be reassigned, their special attack/defense stats would be reset, and they'd lose their shininess. So basically, there'd be no point sending over your old Pokémon, because they wouldn't be your old Pokémon any more. They'd also be much weaker than most generation 3 Pokémon, since IVs could only range from 0-15 back then, while they're 0-31 now. You have a good point about the resulting IVs being a difficult thing. Now about shininess and gender, take into account that certain Pokémon were deliberately created having a specific gender in this fourth generation, as well as some created deliberately shiny. The best examples would be Whitney's girly Pokémon and the Red Gyarados in HeartGold and SoulSilver. Doesn't this tell us some degree of deliberation could be used then, when mapping gender and shininess to the last generation's structure? |
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