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Post by nocturnal YL on Jan 21, 2014 20:51:34 GMT -5
Decided to post it here because I find this interesting, and because this forum lacks discussions about Nintendo games. Sure, we have game-specific threads for discussion and cameos, and we talk a lot about Nintendo as a company, but when it comes to the actual games' contents, there just isn't that much talking going on (besides maybe Pokémon). Weird. Anyway, there's this Internet slang called 黒い任天堂 (black Nintendo), and it basically refers to moments where there are darker or more adult-oriented stuff hiding beneath the uplifting, family-oriented themes — think the final bosses in Kirby. And yes, Nintendo themselves are aware of this term. Examples of these, mostly taken from that Pixiv page: - Mario's drowning animation in Mario 64
- Mario suspected for murdering the mayor of Shiver City in Paper Mario
- Abduction and imprisonment of girls in Earthbound
- N's sad past in Pokémon Black/White
- AZ in Pokémon X/Y
- Princess Ruto in Ocarina of Time, since she is naked in a way
- Bottom of the Well, also in Ocarina of Time
- Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War has NTR, incest, killing of one's family for power, mass killing of children, ...
- Infinite Regalia in Fire Emblem: Awakening implies that the Deadlords there are actually the heroes, dead in this alternate world
- Bloody final boss in Kirby's Dream Land 3
- The bad ending in Pikmin 1
- Resetti in Animal Crossing
- Out of This Dimension in the first Star Fox
- The effects of the Grave Eclipse in Golden Sun: Dark Dawn
Other examples include Custom Robo: Battle Revolution (story, use of illegal robot parts), Super Mario RPG (adult jokes), Tomato Adventure (various parts), The Last Story (adult theme) and more. A more general term, みんなのトラウマ (everyone's trauma), describes unexpected events in games (and other media). These are not necessarily dark, but they do leave impressions to first-time players. Examples: And now a question for you guys, even though I think this has been brought up before: What events in games have left you strong, shocking impressions? My answer to that is definitely Golden Sun: Dark Dawn's Grave Eclipse. Mario 64's Big Boo's Haunt and the infinite ladder too, and the DS version did it again with the stage where Luigi is unlocked. |
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Post by Shrikeswind on Jan 21, 2014 22:51:35 GMT -5
I think you can add "Majora's Mask" to the "Black Nintendo" list. That game is rated, across all regions, as consistently below where its themes hit. It's the darkest, most adult-oriented game in the Legend of Zelda series, bar none.
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Post by Nester the Lark on Jan 21, 2014 22:55:41 GMT -5
I can think of quite a few creepy moments in Nintendo games, but maybe they don't count since most of them come from dark or creepy games to begin with...
Super Metroid
- The Crocomire's death...and return.
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
- Ganondorf coughing up blood in the first-print run of the game.
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
- All of it.
- Specifically the hand in the toilet.
- The fight against the invaders.
- The music that plays during the last six hours.
- The fight with Majora's Mask.
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
- Link's killing blow against Ganondorf.
The Legend of Zelda series
- Link being basically humped by ReDeads in any Zelda game.
Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem
- All of it.
New Super Mario Bros. DS
- Bowser's skin melting off when you beat him in World 1.
Sin & Punishment 2
- The extended ending.
Pandora's Tower
- Watching Elena eat meat.
- Slight spoilers... Elena getting ravenous later in the game. ...End spoilers.
The Wonderful 101
- There's some blatant sexual innuendo after Blue fights Vijounne in Operation 004-A.
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Post by The Qu on Jan 22, 2014 8:52:43 GMT -5
The entirety of Chibi Robo. It's honestly one of the darkest games I've played, you just have to look a bit below the surface at what it's really doing.
Mother 3 counts too. It has too many moments to actually name.
There's a lot of specific moments in Majora's Mask, as has been said. I have to give specific mention to the Postman towards the end of the Final Day. He gets up and goes off, scared, saying "The mail must be delievered". Godspeed, you hero. Godspeed.
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Post by Evie ❤✿ on Jan 22, 2014 12:30:47 GMT -5
Ah, this is an interesting thread. Thanks for starting it, nocturnal. Tomato Adventure (various parts) Examples include (beware of spoilers): *At the beginning of the game, King Abīra claims he has finished a machine that will make everyone stay kids forever, but in actuality it will turn everyone into toys. *Kids who do not like tomatoes are banished to a village near a cliff called Kobore Village (its name is probably based ochikoboreru, meaning to 'drop-out') and they can never leave it until they learn to like tomatoes, but it isn't so bad because they may be able to leave on Tomato Day. *The Balsami Dome and the REM/non-REM labyrinth. ** When you first arrive there (this is more creepy than dark): a phantom-like entity changes his appearance to look like Demiru and copies all of his actions. After Demiru catches him out, he transforms into his phantom self and says something along the lines of "were you happy?". **The ominous music that plays there and how there is a reverse world, in which your actions in one world affects the other, both in dreams and in reality. **The strange paintings there. The music for the Balsami Dome and the reverse world is called "This is art?" (Japanese: これがゲージュツ?) I don't think they're that creepy though, except that one of Chekida. ***As in the reverse world you get attacked by Pollo's bird Kukuppo, you have to defeat it in the forward world, too. **When you go up the ladder that leads to Super Kid #6 Chekida, the aforementioned phantom Demiru chases you up the ladder trying to catch you. *The last battle with Borikki and Gorikki: They turn on each other and shoot themselves after they lose to Demiru and co. * Abirasu's (Abiwrath?)'s second form is a little disturbing, with his bulging eyeballs and broken teeth. I think he'd make a good Nintober 2014 monster. Despite these examples, I didn't find the game too serious.
Apparently, according to Nintendo Online Magazine, in Densetsu no Starfy 2, the staff considered some of the Stuff (clothes, accessories) to be too dark. There were originally 250 'draft' designs, but only 99 made it in the final game. Below I will talk more about the Legendary Starfy series, beware of spoilers: The staff in the Densetsu no Starfy 2 Nintendo Online Magazine interview suggest that they wanted the story of Densetsu no Starfy 2 to appeal to both children and adults. According to one of the Pufftop Legends in The Legendary Starfy (stories told by Pufftop Guards summarizing the stories of previous games), the story was meant to reflect on the importance of the "connections between people". Though this isn't exactly dark (unless you say all kidnappings in games are), Ōgura creates ten children called the Puchi Ōgura, and gets them to escape from the jar for him and cause a storm and topple it over, letting Ōgura escape. He then kidnaps Mama Star. That is one indicator of the importance of family. Satoko Tanaka says that every single piece of dialogue in the game has its own deep meaning, though I haven't noticed that myself and can't back it up because I don't really understand Japanese. I don't think it is literally 'every' piece of dialogue. I feel this part (spoilers) near the end of the game might be an example though. (do you mind summarizing it for me nocturnal YL, please?) Ogura has a speech bubble with a young Papa Star (the King of Tenkai) and Rob-jiisan in it, so I think it's important. Densetsu no Starfy 3 is notably more dark, but I wouldn't say all of the game in general was presented to be dark. Instead, I think the developers wanted to get across a life lesson, like they may have wanted in Densetsu no Starfy 2. The main antagonist, Evil had acted as a 'personage' or role model for Ōgura since he was young, but he is angry that he hasn't conquered Tenkai yet (notably, a young Ōgura tried to defeat Papa Star and Rob-jiisan but failed, and he got trapped back in the jar in Legendary Starfy 1 and 2). It is apparent that he did not treat Ōgura very well, and when Evil altered Ōgura's appearance to be stronger, that may have damaged Ōgura's sense of identity. It was also a painful process for him. The lesson may be that if you bring someone up badly, they aren't going to have very good values about you. At the end of the game, Ōgura sacrificed his life by sparing the last Evil Crystal to help Stafy, Stapy and Kyorozuke defeat Evil and there was a sad part at the end of the game where Stafy and co. were sad over the death of Ōgura, even though he was a villain. Also, it's evident that the Puchi Ōgura from Legendary Starfy 2 died, as misty figures of them are seen in the sky with Ōgura. Evil actually killed Kyorosuke's father, Kyorozou with a lightning attack. He originally targeted Kyorosuke, but Kyorozou moved in to take the attack. |
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Post by Nester the Lark on Jan 22, 2014 15:15:28 GMT -5
I forgot about Link's vision from Twilight Princess. In general, I think the Zelda series is a lot darker and more twisted than it gets credit for. |
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Post by nocturnal YL on Jan 22, 2014 16:02:06 GMT -5
Satoko Tanaka says that every single piece of dialogue in the game has its own deep meaning, though I haven't noticed that myself and can't back it up because I don't really understand Japanese. I don't think it is literally 'every' piece of dialogue. I feel this part (spoilers) near the end of the game might be an example though. (do you mind summarizing it for me nocturnal YL, please?) Ogura has a speech bubble with a young Papa Star (the King of Tenkai) and Rob-jiisan in it, so I think it's important. Not that important, he just recognized that Lobber was the one who fought along Starfy's father. The whole scene is not about anything deep, it's just a showcase of Lobber's strength, which Starfy and Moe (Kyorosuke) did not fully recognize until then. |
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Post by The Qu on Jan 22, 2014 16:08:09 GMT -5
I forgot about Link's vision from Twilight Princess. In general, I think the Zelda series is a lot darker and more twisted than it gets credit for. A lot of the later stuff is pretty dark. The concept of Zant- an insane guy held up as a puppet leader by a being he thinks is God- is pretty dark, as is Ganon's rather Lynchian death. |
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Post by Evie ❤✿ on Jan 22, 2014 16:13:32 GMT -5
Satoko Tanaka says that every single piece of dialogue in the game has its own deep meaning, though I haven't noticed that myself and can't back it up because I don't really understand Japanese. I don't think it is literally 'every' piece of dialogue. I feel this part (spoilers) near the end of the game might be an example though. (do you mind summarizing it for me nocturnal YL, please?) Ogura has a speech bubble with a young Papa Star (the King of Tenkai) and Rob-jiisan in it, so I think it's important. Not that important, he just recognized that Lobber was the one who fought along Starfy's father. The whole scene is not about anything deep, it's just a showcase of Lobber's strength, which Starfy and Moe (Kyorosuke) did not fully recognize until then. I see. Thanks. I've added two more Tomato Adventure examples to my original post. |
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Post by Shrikeswind on Jan 22, 2014 17:01:28 GMT -5
I forgot about Link's vision from Twilight Princess. In general, I think the Zelda series is a lot darker and more twisted than it gets credit for. A lot of the later stuff is pretty dark. The concept of Zant- an insane guy held up as a puppet leader by a being he thinks is God- is pretty dark, as is Ganon's rather Lynchian death. Twilight Princess was one of the darker games in the series in general, really. Like Nester said, a lot of the Zelda series is quite dark (as a whole, really, not just the newer stuff, see the intro cutscene to LttP for a good indicator of this,) but the real pillars of bleakness in the Zelda series are Majora's Mask, Twilight Princess, and Link to the Past, in that order. Most of the games have their moments (Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker, and Skyward Sword have some bleak points,) but with Majora's Mask, Twilight Princess, and Link to the Past, it's much more obvious how dark the games are: Majora's Mask gives us a world on the verge of apocalypse, Twilight Princess is about a madman's war in the name of a false god, and Link to the Past goes from "No good deed goes unpunished" (everything in the Light World) to "Everyone has their demons" (everything in the Dark World.) You can really tell with the senses of humor in these games compared to other Zelda games: With Skyward Sword, you bounce between a guy who speaks of how violently he's going to kill you as if he were writing a particularly salacious romance novel, and this hilariously out-of-touch egomaniac. With Twilight Princess, the gags either fall flat (the Oocca,) or are giving you a breather before you see something scary (Ook and Yeto to Diababa and Blizzeta's face.) |
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Post by The Qu on Jan 22, 2014 19:03:22 GMT -5
I'd say Link's Awakening has some not unintentional creepiness too. I mean, by waking the Wind Fish, you're essentially erasing everybody on Koholint Island. This is explicit pointed out by both the bosses and the weird guy who gives you the bomb and powder upgrades. It's closer to Alice in Wonderland than a horror movie, but it's a bit disturbing nonetheless.
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Post by Shrikeswind on Jan 22, 2014 23:07:34 GMT -5
I'd say Link's Awakening has some not unintentional creepiness too. I mean, by waking the Wind Fish, you're essentially erasing everybody on Koholint Island. This is explicit pointed out by both the bosses and the weird guy who gives you the bomb and powder upgrades. It's closer to Alice in Wonderland than a horror movie, but it's a bit disturbing nonetheless. Link's Awakening's weird. It kinda does this whole reverse-Majora thing: A very much light-hearted game where everyone's having fun which ends on a dark note because you accidentally caused Pralaya through your heroism, vs. a very much depressing game where everyone's worried about their all-too-obviously impending doom until your heroism prevents Moonfall. It's an interesting dichotomy. |
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Post by nocturnal YL on Jan 22, 2014 23:49:18 GMT -5
I find Link's Awakening disturbing for me because of this, actually. You either erase the world (not that the people inside care, since they aren't real), or leave it as is until the waking world versions of the Wind Fish and Link wither, when they will end anyway. Either way, it sucks, even if the dream has a relatively complete ending.
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Kriven
Pikpik Carrot
Posts: 160
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Post by Kriven on Jan 30, 2014 23:53:47 GMT -5
Spoiler:
Wind Waker is so bright and colorful and innocent... it's the perfect game for childre--STAB GANONDORF THROUGH THE SKULL!
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