Wii reminds me of XBOX 360

[Fryguy64]

This is where we have to draw a line between what is canon and what is not. Up until 1994, the Nintendo games were canon, then DKC was released and Rare's games also became canon. You HAVE to realise that the canonicity of a source is dependent on what comes after. Games come first, especially where those games are created by the original developers.

For an example, there's no doubting that before Star Wars Episode I was released, many of the novels and other materials that filled in plot gaps in the series were canon. Since the new trilogy was released, many of those older stories are now irrelevant (as sad as that may be). Boba Fett is a clone of Jango Fett, whether we like it or not! The movies by the original writer/director trump alternate sources - even formerly "canon" sources.

The same is true of Donkey Kong. Nintendo is the original creator. So if Nintendo has, in the last 5 years, decided that there is only one Donkey Kong and ever has been, then that is what we have to go with.

You know what definitely ISN'T canon? The letters page of a now third-party company written by the guy who writes the game manuals, living on the other side of the planet to the original developer. That doesn't come anywhere near close to canon - and it was always highly suspicious. Rare's place is not to comment on the origins of characters they have never worked with, even if it's trying to make sense out of their (often internally confused) storylines.

Donkey Kong Jr. is a separate character. It's better if we start thinking of Cranky Kong as a separate character as well. Because that's what Nintendo is now suggesting - and if Nintendo says so then it is so.

Besides, why the hell would being out of the spotlight rapidly age a gorilla? That's just mental talk!!

Edit: Just wanted to add... it was never officially confirmed that DK is grown-up DK Jr., even in DK64. In fact, that letter was posted AFTER DK64 was released. Nintendo isn't OK with it, clearly, as they have blatantly ignored it - and everything else Leigh Loveday has said on the matter.

[mrmolecule]

What about Baby DK in YI DS? Is Yoshi's Island DS even canon?

[kirbychu]

robert said:

My theory is that Cranky still is the classic DK, and the reason he became so old while Mario was still young is because he fell into obscurity after Mario became popular. (Seriously, he didn't get back into the business until DK 1994 came out, and that was a retelling of the arcade game).

Then DK Jr. grew up to become Super DK and the rest is history. (If you don't believe me on that one, try asking Rare's Scribes. They officially confirmed that Super DK was intended to be a grown-up DK Jr., but they were sure if Nintendo would be OK with it, so it didn't get revealed in-game until DK64.)

First of all, just because Tiny Toons said cartoon characters get old when they're forgotten doesn't mean any other companies follow that example. Just look at Pit. And second... somebody's been spending too much time at Jungle Vine.

Is Mario VS Donkey Kong 2 officially set before SMB? And if so, does it confirm that Mario used to live in the real world before ending up in the Mushroom Kingdom? I've been wondering about this lately, what with Mario and Luigi seeming to have lived in the Mushroom Kingdom as babies. I thought perhaps it'd been retconned or something.

[Manspeed]

Has Nintendo ever said outright that Super DK and Arcade DK are one and the same? The only written evidence of that I can find is in DK's trophy in Melee, and SSB seems to combine all the different variations of the characters into one (take Link for example).

As for that bit about aging, I kinda thought the same thing applied to VG characters, they do break the fourth wall every so often.

Also, the DK Vine gets too much flack from people. They really aren't that bad in the long run. I'd like to see you go there and tell them all that yourself, Fry.

[Deleted]

robert said:

Also, the DK Vine gets too much flack from people. They really aren't that bad in the long run. I'd like to see you go there and tell them all that yourself, Fry.

If it were even worth the effort (which I don't imagine it is), his post would be deleted and he'd be banned within five minutes, tops. The DK Vine people really are hardcore lunatic fanboys--anyone saying anything against them or what they believe in as a group is given the boot.

The Tiny Toons thing isn't universal. It was a humorous plot point used for one episode of a cartoon series that has no relevant ties to Donkey Kong or Nintendo for that matter, aside from the few Tiny Toons games to be released on their consoles, undoubtedly done by third party studios.

[Dances in Undergarments]

mrmolecule said:

What about Baby DK in YI DS? Is Yoshi's Island DS even canon?

I hate discussions of what is 'canon', particularly with Mario, but why the f*** wouldn't Yoshi's Island DS be canon?

[Fryguy64]

DK Jungle Vine is full of people who take DKC WAAAAAY too seriously. They get flak because any well-meaning person vaguely interested in the site soon gets scared away by their aggressive tone and their complete and utter denial that Nintendo's own DK games are "real" DK games.

In short, they would argue that the original Donkey Kong and Jungle Beat weren't "canon", and then argue vehemontly that Banjo-Kazooie and Conker's BFD were "canon" (because of Diddy Kong Racing).

Generally I despise "canon" arguments as well - but sometimes it's good to make things clear, as there seems to be quite a big split. The Zelda community have to decide between whether the original Japanese or the American translation versions are canon, which is interesting. The DK community will listen to the ramblings of one English guy on a letters page over entire swathes of games.

And no, Rob-Bert, but neither has Nintendo themselves explicitly stated in the last five years that Donkey Kong is the original Jr. Or that Cranky is the original DK.

Jesus. I really hate the Jungle Vine.

[Manspeed]

Oy. I have to finish what I started.

Guess I'll just end this argument for now. We ain't getting anywhere. Though I still believe that aging thing. Yes, I am that much of a WB fan. ;D

I wonder how I was able to settle into the DKU forums so easily.

[Fryguy64]

Perhaps they saw in you GREAT potential! Trust me... their arguments are nothing but straw men, questionable sources and meaningless jargon.

Obviously, the NinDB forum members always use clear and reasoned arguments!!!

[Manspeed]

Ok, so maybe arguing about DK isn't one of my strong points, but believe me, I can put up a good argument when I want to (and if I'm not feeling lazy). I also visit the IGN SSB Boards, and arguments happen there all the time, largely because some new no-nothing shows up there everyday. making a thread that's been seen at least a thousand times before without looking at the sticky full of all the confirmed information.

[Fryguy64]

You're using Jungle Vine's arguments. That's why you lose

Seriously dude, don't take it personally. I've been to forums where stupid ideas seem driven into every member like some bizarre cult. That's why I made these forums.

So at least I'd have a cult of my own! ;D

You guys drink the lemonade first. I promise I will drink it when you're done.

[mrmolecule]

What's in the lemonade?

But since Mario v DK comes after the Rare days, one could argue that both can take place in parallel universes. Hmm...

As for YI DS, this assumes the Pauline-is-Peach theory and the DK-Ages-Faster Theory. Since Peach has assumed royalty, they are clearly not firstborns and are several months. Peach had recently been adopted by this time.

As for "bizarre cult", isn't every super-large forum one of them? (I'm thinking of this)

Mario Storylines are so long!

Another theory I've been thinking of is NSMB does not overcross SMB 1. My theory is, after Super Mario RPG, life went on, Bowser became evil again, and the Mushroom King dies of natural circumstances. Then Peach (who still is referred to as "Princess Peach", builds her castle somewhere in the offsets of Mushroom Kingdom and takes some retainers with her. The older castle is renovated into a restaurant, mall, or school. Bowser Jr. thinks Peach is his mother...because she is. In one of Peach-is-kidnapped stories, Bowser "does the deed" with a drunken Peach, and Bowser Jr. is soon born. Eventually, Bowser Jr does wrong and he is fragmented into 7 Koopas, each taking a bit of his personality but having no memories. Eventually, the Koopa Kids, as they are called, die, and this happens in SMW, which takes place far after everything else. But that messes up knowing Yoshi in the previous Mario games, but SMW in itself contradicts itself with YI, and...

(head spontaneously explodes)

[Smashchu]

Oh boy! I sure love lemonade!
*Drinks*

Anywho, when it comes to anything Mario related, I disregard canon. Myiamoto even said there is no canon. Kamak is Bowser's helper in some games, and in others it's Kamey. Bowser had seven sons, now one. And what about Waluigi in general. And if the DK in Donkey Kong was the current Cranky, why does DK wear a tie in all the Mario games.

See, no consistancy.

I feel dizzy. Better lie down.

[Fryguy64]

I actually like the idea put forward by M&L:PiT, that Baby Mario, Baby Luigi and Bowser Jr. are actually time-travelling tots. Seems to sort out that whole area of baby interaction in MTennis, MK:DD, SMS and YIDS.

[mrmolecule]

Another theory is that Bowser Jr and Baby Bowser are one and the same...

Wait, that's stupid.

Time-traveling...that's an idea...

And Smashchu, it is possible that the DK tie is some sort of family heirloom...