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Post by angrysun on May 21, 2007 10:10:14 GMT -5
Rookie(Bowser with Memory Problems) is an obvious reference to Super Mario Bros.
Rookie throws Hammers and Breathes Fire just like Bowser did in Super Mario Bros.
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Post by Fryguy64 on May 21, 2007 10:47:23 GMT -5
Err... that wasn't missed. It's the same character...  |
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Post by angrysun on May 21, 2007 15:03:05 GMT -5
Err... that wasn't missed. It's the same character... While that may be true Bowser himself doesn't throw hammers anymore. |
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Post by Fryguy64 on May 21, 2007 16:15:32 GMT -5
Yes, but it's not a cameo by a long stretch of the imagination. It's a reference to an earlier game in the series, for sure, but then so is the fact Bowser lives in a lava-filled castle and has seven children. It's just in-series continuity.
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Post by Dasher Misire on Jun 2, 2007 16:24:00 GMT -5
Kekeke.
No, Bowser still uses hammers now and then. And besides, I could then say Ganondorf's sword sheathe in TP is a very concealed reference to the SpaceWorld tech demo. GASP.
It's not a cameo, it's either continuity or a reference to another game.
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Post by angrysun on Jun 3, 2007 12:03:11 GMT -5
Kekeke. No, Bowser still uses hammers now and then. And besides, I could then say Ganondorf's sword sheathe in TP is a very concealed reference to the SpaceWorld tech demo. GASP. It's not a cameo, it's either continuity or a reference to another game. Okay it's reference then. |
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Post by Fryguy64 on Jun 3, 2007 14:20:49 GMT -5
Actually it's a bit of both. But I have very strict rules regarding in-series references. The main one being it has to be absolutely blindingly obvious that it's a reference to a specific earlier game in the series. Some examples:
Reused sprites are a good place to start. When Mario/Peach/Bowser go "Super" in Super Paper Mario they turn into giant sprites from Super Mario Bros. That's a blatant reference. Other examples include the Octorok sprite on Manny's bag in Wind Waker, the Mario sprite course in Mario Kart: Double-Dash!! and so on.
Another example might be where a character (or something else) used exclusively in a spin-off series is integrated into the main series or a completely separate spinoff. The best example I can think of is the Dr. Mario Viruses appearing in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga. This is very much a one-way street - you can go from spinoff to spinoff, or spinoff to main series, but it is never a cameo or reference if it goes main series to spinoff. Of course, what I regard as a main series game might not always be agreed upon, but that is why I continue to post Luigi's Mansion cameos in Mario Kart games, etc. I don't consider LM a main Mario game.
While yours is based on a solid reason, it just isn't a direct reference to a particular game. It's a reference to attacks that Bowser used in the past, sure, but there's nothing there that says "This is a direct reference to Super Mario Bros!". I could sit here and write a long list of the origins of every attack that Mario and co. use in every RPG they have appeared in, but I don't intend on doing that. It's derivative, but it's just not a cameo.
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Post by Manspeed on Jun 3, 2007 14:50:52 GMT -5
It these kinds of things that lead me to thinking that the Mario series has more of a continuity than people give it credit for. Though Fry doesn't believe in continuity for any video game. |
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Post by Fryguy64 on Jun 3, 2007 18:25:15 GMT -5
Err.... no, I have never said that and I'd appreciate you not misappropriating what I have said in the past.  There's clear continuity, such as how one game might follow another in terms of the game story, or chronologically in order of release. These would have to be explicitly stated by the games themselves. I have no argument with these. Anything else is fan-filler, or to use Wikipedia's terminology, Fanwankery. It is either completely wrong, or never resolved. Sometimes it's good to see a community grow due to imagination and speculation, but that also never happens - you get fanboys swearing and shouting their "answer" as if it were gospel truth. It is damaging to the image of online communities and videogaming. And the main reason these things turn out to be wrong is because people look at gaming out of context. In this case, the Mario series is developed in Japan, so you have to throw out your preconceptions based on American translations - it has also developed over many years and branched into many side projects. I object to people looking for continuity where it doesn't exist, and then acting like jerks about it. In this case, the SMB series has some continuity, but the development of the series as a whole has a much larger bearing on how it has developed. Storyline-wise, it is so basic as to be completely impossible to string a decent "timeline" out of it. So don't bother - the Mario games aren't about their story. They're about platforming entertainment. |
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