Critical Time

[Fryguy64]

Well, if you take a look at some of the best and most popular third party game series of all time, what do you find? Usually, a series that has outlived its welcome, or been twisted into something for the "hardcore" or something completely different.

I'll admit to a liking for the Castlevania 2D games, but in the same way that I like the Metroids... that is... I probably won't buy them until they're a bit cheaper.

Mega Man is a prime example. The originals were - for the most part - great. Mega Man X? OK, I can stretch to that... they were all right... but then what? Battle Network? Mega Man Adventure? Zero? ZX? We haven't had a straightforward, non-impossible Mega Man game since the SNES.

Phoenix Wright is still hilarious and fresh. I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk of Trials and Tribulations yet... though to be fair... what are you going to talk about?

You say Contra, I say Probotector... let's call the whole thing off! But from what I see, there have been a few Contra games since those on the NES and SNES, and they have... for the most part... been very bad.

The biggest problem, of course, is that some of the best new 3rd party games are not on Nintendo consoles, which happen to be what people here are likely to own... for the simple fact it's a Nintendo fanboy forum. I mean, Okami, the Metal Gears and Final Fantasies and Dragon Quests, Dead Rising, BioShock, Halo... there's great non-Nintendo games out there... but the Wii showing has been very poor (even the 3PS kinda reflects that).

The DS has been getting some excellent games worth getting excited about, but now it's suffering from GBA syndrome - a glut of low-quality, low-effort third party releases... the kind of thing that makes people like us wary about moving outside of established brands (and even then.... Yoshi's Island DS anyone?)

This is why we NEED people like you to sort the wheat from the chaff. I mean, the 3PS is one way you do it, and posting about new news releases is another. Perhaps, more than anything, we need you to be critical - and when a game is released we need you to give us some idea of what reviewers are saying - even if it's just a link to the Gamerankings page, or something.

Scepticism runs very high, and while this is partly thirdpartyphobia, it is also partly justified by a high number of overhyped let-downs... which has been a problem since the release of the N64. You are the last defence... I KNOW YOU CAN DO IT NESTER!!

I BELIEVE IN YOU!! ;D

[Sqrt2]

admin said:

Phoenix Wright is still hilarious and fresh. I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk of Trials and Tribulations yet... though to be fair... what are you going to talk about?

I'm still waiting for NOE to announce a firm release date rather than just a vague '2008'.

admin said:

The DS has been getting some excellent games worth getting excited about, but now it's suffering from GBA syndrome - a glut of low-quality, low-effort third party releases... the kind of thing that makes people like us wary about moving outside of established brands (and even then.... Yoshi's Island DS anyone?)

Not to mention all the rubbish film-tie-in games that seem to be released, on the Wii as well as the DS. Or the numerous ports of PS2/3 or X-Box/360 games.

As for my own view of 3^rd party games, the last one I bought was RE4 - partly because I'd read about it from various sources/watched gameplay trailers and partly of the improved control scheme.

I tend to wait for reviews in magazines before I part with my cash, although I take each review with a pinch of salt, seeing as most games involving Mario or Zelda anywhere in the title seem to continually get 90%+ scores.

To be fair, not all 3^rd party games are bad, it's just that they're usually either Final Fantasy-esque RPG's with tons of text to wade through, 'Life Simulators' or Golfing/American Football games. Which don't appeal to me as much as most 1^st games such as Galaxy, Corruption or Brawl.

[Dances in Undergarments]

I don't think the fact Brawl is getting shit-tons of discussion should really be considered an accusation of bias against 3rd party games - because discussion of 1st party games are getting shunned for it, too.

To be fair, and I suppose its a necessity given the basis of this forum is a Ninty fan(boy?) site, is that the emphasis on promoting 3rd party games has, in some ways, driven them further apart from the Nintendo ones. To be honest, in many ways having a third party game of the week just further emphasizes a supposed split - "so Megaman is a this week's great third party game, but how does it compare with Metroid?"

Unfortunately it doesn't seem like the easiest problem to solve, because with a 1st party dedicated site 3rd party stuff will inevitably stick out, but I think at least part of the solution is not having its own '3rd party' board, while another, which will slightly fix itself with the removal of this board, is to not emphasize that the game we are looking at is in fact third party. Ideally, we should see Mario, Metroid, Sonic, Pokemon, Halo, Megaman and Zelda grouped together as 'games', not as 2 separate categories.

However, everything you are doing is still good stuff, Nester, so keep it up.

[Fryguy64]

I mean, I have no qualms with merging the third party boards with the others... but before I opened this board there were hardly any posts about third party games, and those there were disappeared after a day onto the next page.

The problem was the same then - people here just don't really know what to say about them. I mean, conversation about first party games is usually limited to "hey that's a cool new feature" or "I'm glad they're referring to the old games" - but such comments require a more intimate knowledge of the series as a whole, which is something most people here don't have of many third party titles.

When it comes to things like Contra, I don't really know what to say. I played the original NES version (as Probotector) and Contra III (Super Probotector) - but look how many more games in the series there are! The same is no doubt true of many other third party titles and games that only appear on other consoles.

I think the boards should remain separate, personally. With the site launch this week, hopefully we can put a little more effort into promoting the 3PS. But I still believe that a critical view, a more thorough review process, and more shiny pictures wouldn't go amiss. Although people seem to like the varied and informal style of the 3PS.

[Nester the Lark]

I've actually refrained from posting too much news in this forum, but I think Fry is right. Maybe you guys need it. Looks like I'll be doing the heavy lifting on this forum.

And like DiU, I was initially concerned with the segregation of third party games from first party, but it's better, I think, that they have their own forum so as to draw more attention to them. The only problem is that it may be misinterpreted as "a place at the bottom for the trash." (And knowing Nintendo fans, that's probably their first impulse.)

As TV Eye (and others) have suggested, playing all the third party games myself so that I can add a personal perspective to the write-ups is a great idea! I wish it was possible.

I would like to answer my own question about what would raise interest, but since I'm already interested, I'll answer why.

I've taken chances on games that didn't necessarily get the highest review scores, but I found that I really enjoyed them. More so than I would've initially thought, and more than some Nintendo games that I otherwise would've automatically assumed were what I really wanted. It's exciting for me to try these different games that provide a uniquely different and fresh style than Nintendo's.

P.S. Fry, I've sent you pics for most of the first 15 3PS's.

[kirbychu]

There are plenty of third-party series that I love just as much as the first-party ones. Even more in some cases. I have a huge love of Sonic the Hedgehog and Viewtiful Joe, and, to a slightly lesser extent, Phoenix Wright and Phantasy Star. Metal Gear and Grandia are also high up my list, though these are both series that I've only played one game from. And has there ever been a Grandia game on a Nintendo console? I've never seen one...

It's just that, this being a Nintendo board, I don't talk about them very much. There's also the fact that a lot of these series don't have any new games coming. I know very little about Phoenix Wright 3, despite my girlfriend already owning it (I just don't want spoilers!), and I know most people here don't like Sonic games. So as far as third-party games go... I'm afraid I just don't always have a lot to say.

I'll sure try to add to the conversations here if I can, though. I'll admit that I do tend to skim this part of the forum, as I do the classic part.

[Old Man Rupee]

(bare with me, typing with a wiimote)
I've got a great idea! I'll start posting some page scans of these old third party comic strips I've got lying around! I used to collect "sonic the comic" before it went out of print, and it featured stories of Shinobi, Decap Attack, Sparkster, Kid Chamelion... They were pretty good! That should bring this board a bit of traffic!

Does anyone know where I could upload these without fear of getting sued? Photobucket maybe? The comic's out of print now anyway...

[kirbychu]

They're all online somewhere already... I contributed quite a few scans to the site myself, but I forget where it is.

[TV Eye]

I am a fan of various third party games such as Kingdom Hearts, Viewtiful Joe, Sonic, Jet Set Radio...etc.

When I see more of those games on Nintendo consoles (besides Viewtiful Joe because Colver Studio's has been discontinued) I will have a lot to say.

Until then, all I'm seeing is traditional RPG's...which I hate. So I don't have much to say.


Though Nester, it seems you've got it all figured out That's good!

[Wildcat]

Kirbychu - Grandia has primarily appeared on the PS family, with Grandia first popping up on Saturn and Grandia II appearing first on the Dreamcast.

I chip in with news when I can...and I will continue to do so. This is not on your back alone, Nester. I'll do what I can (I do try to post frequently when a game I have some interest in pops up).

[kirbychu]

wildcat said:

Kirbychu - Grandia has primarily appeared on the PS family, with Grandia first popping up on Saturn and Grandia II appearing first on the Dreamcast.

I only have the Playstation version of the original. But it is, hands down, my favourite RPG ever. I have a Dreamcast, so maybe I should look into the sequel...

[Wildcat]

I like Grandia II quite a bit. It's got a great battle system.

[Old Man Rupee]

kirbychu said:

They're all online somewhere already... I contributed quite a few scans to the site myself, but I forget where it is.

After a quick google image search, I concede that there are quite a few page scans of Sonic the Comic, but they mainly focus on the Sonic stories.

I'll look into joining Photobucket, then start uploading some Streets of Rage pages. Stay tuned!

[Nester the Lark]

I need to resurrect this thread to point out yet another article which suggests that this holiday season is critical for the Wii in terms of third party support. This one comes from gamesindustry.biz and quotes Eidos's Julien Merceron:

"Either third party developers and publishers will make money on the Wii platform, or they won't - and if most of them don't I think we'll see a big drop in support for the Wii next year, which could have some consequences for Nintendo, and very positive ones for Microsoft and Sony," he said.

"So I think that the success of the Wii from the different publishers is going to be the determining point this Christmas…if you can't make money at Christmas on the best platform out there, then you have no chance all year long "

Again, this is what I've been talking about for the past year-and-a-half. If third party titles don't sell, Nintendo will lose those publishers. If that happens, then Nintendo will be in trouble because they simply cannot support the Wii alone.

[TV Eye]

I would really like to help with third party support, but there's only so much a civilian can do. Okay, we can buy the games, but I use what little money I have, on games I know are good, such as first party games. From what I can tell, most of the third party games are too gimmicky and childish. Zelda TP and Mario Galaxy are examples of games for the Wii that are truly games. I can only play mini-game games for so long.

NiGHTS will be a definite buy for me, but at the moment, I only have one Wii game (Zelda). And I got my Wii at launch day. There has been nothing I would like to spend $50 on for the Wii.

The DS is another story though...

So, yeah, if the third party games improve in quality, more people will buy them.