Critical Time

[Nester the Lark]

Warning! Rant Approaching!

My job here is an uphill battle. I'm trying to get you guys interested in games that you seem inherently disinterested in. How am I supposed to gain attention for third party games when you guys are more interested in debating the ethics of including Japan-only characters in Smash Bros? (I mean, I'm excited about the game, too, but geez, guys, get a grip! )

According to IGN, Japan's Nikkei Business Daily has published an article in which developers express apprehension about supporting the Wii. This is a critical time for the Wii, and several high profile third-party games are scheduled for release in the next few months. If sales for these games don't live up to expectations, it could mean the begin of a decline in third-party support.

If you recall, the GameCube also started off with some decent third-party support, but weak sales numbers (even for high profile games) quickly thinned that support until it was all but barren in the last years. Even though the Wii doesn't rely as heavily on core fans as the 'Cube did, most of these high profile games are aimed at the core. It was a mistake not to support them on the GameCube. It would be a shame if we Nintendo fans made the same mistake twice.

You've heard me sing this song before. I've been crusading for third party games for over a year-and-a-half on this board, and except for the 3PS features that have been posted on the NinDB, I have a small audience. I'm glad to see some of you start threads for third party games, but most of them die out as fast as they're created. The main exceptions would be debates over the quality of Sonic games, and third-party games that are mistaken for second-party (ie. Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games).

So, I'm throwing the ball in your court. You guys tell me: what would raise your interest in third-party games?

[kirbychu]

High-quality third-party games would be a start. It's something we don't have a large number of, though. Why buy a third-party game when, for the same price, you can get a first-party one of much higher quality? Not to say all third-party games are bad and all first-party ones are fantastic, of course. But, in general, it tends to be the case.

I don't have any disinterest in third-party games. I don't buy games based on who made them. For my Gamecube, I have a lot of Sega games, a decent number of Capcom games, a few by Namco and Konami, and a couple by misc companies. Put together, all my third-party games are about equal to my first-party ones. But I don't have so many Nintendo games just because they're Nintendo... I have them because, in my opinion, they were the best games available at the time.

So... what would raise my interest in third-party games? Some really brilliant third-party games. Every now and then one comes along that catches my eye. Viewtiful Joe and Phoenix Wright being two last-gen examples. This needs to happen more often.

[TV Eye]

I agree with Kirbychu. I don't buy games based on who made them. I buy games based on reviews. Hell, 3/4 of the games I own for my DS are third party.

[kirbychu]

I don't even buy games based on reviews... After all, a review is just one guy's opinion. I look at the concept of the game. Then I look at it's features... then I decide if I want it.

I'll use Harvest Moon as an example... I love the concept of Harvest Moon games, but recent entries in the series feel too limited and closed off. I own A Wonderful Life, but I don't play it any more. Which is a shame, because it could've been fantastic. I still think the SNES was the best in the series.

Then there's Drawn To Life for DS. In concept, this game looks amazing. But I'm still not sure about it... I need to see how it's been executed before I can decide.

[Savage Adam]

Well, i've never played a Sega game I didn't like, so maybe you could start there.

[Fryguy64]

Well, the 20 Third Party Showcases are gonna go up with the site update, and will be linked from the main page news article.

One idea... would you want to go back and get screenshots for all the 3PS games without them? They brighten the place up a bit

[Savage Adam]

Yeah, listen to Fry.

And add Drawn to life. That game rocks. (or so i'm told, I don't have a DS)

[Smashchu]

Well, I actually buy games because they are made by Nintendo. The reason is that I grew up on many of their games, and Smash Bros. of course.

How ever, I have a few favorites in the 3rd party world. Namely Sonic and the occasional FF game. I agree with Kirbychu that they need to up the quallity. I bought Red Steel like many people and while I liked it at first, it got old. But Rayman Raving Rabbids. That game was great for the humor alone.

It really depends. If I had more money, I'd buy more games, but there haven't been a lot of amazing 3rd party titles.

[Old Man Rupee]

I have to agree that on the whole, third party games are just not good enough for my standards. Maybe my standards have been raised unfairly by great 1st party stuff, but that's for a different discussion.

On the other hand, it looks like the concepts behind Wii and the DS has given third parties an inspiration boost, as there's a few good games coming soon that will be definitely worth my time:

Zack and Wiki
de Blob
King Story

And of course, I continue to enjoy the Phoenix Wright series ;D

[Wildcat]

There are many excellent third party games out there. I've been tracking down retro compilations to get my hands on many great classics! However, Nintendo does indeed have a higher "greatness" ratio than most other companies. That being said, I have been reevaluating my Most Wanted list, and found several third party games that are on their way. I'll just list a few to bring them to other's attention:
DS
Phoenix Wright: Trials & Tribulations (Capcom) - I'm sure most of us have already got this one filed away under "SOLD!", but in case you are not aware of the excellence, I must mention it anyway.
Contra 4 (Konami) - Run and gun action is back with a vengeance! Impressions have been great, and the added bonus of the NES Contra and Super C sweeten the deal.

Wii
No More Heroes (UBI Soft) - The creator of Killer 7 returns with an over-the-top action game that may even make GTA look normal.
Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure (Capcom) - From the brains behind Devil May Cry comes this dazzling puzzle/action game. Its focus on mind benders ought to make fans of old-time adventure games pleased.

There's more, but those are what I'm focusing on for Nintendo systems. ^_^

[kirbychu]

Ah, de Blob. Played the original version, and was quite impressed. I'll definately be checking out the Wii version. ;D

[wanderingshadow]

I'm not anti-third party, I'm pro-Nintendo! Seriously, I actually have quite a few third-party games and I even own a Playstation.

Perhaps you should consider that some of us (myself included) read your threads, but don't necessarily have anything more to say.

[Nester the Lark]

wanderingshadow said:

Perhaps you should consider that some of us (myself included) read your threads, but don't necessarily have anything more to say.

And that, right there, is a symptom of the problem.

Have you guys looked in the Smash Bros. topic lately? The conversation that goes on in there is preposterous! But I get it: you guys are excited about the game, so you talk about it. Nothing wrong with that. And I certainly don't expect you guys to get that excited over a third party game. Heck, even Nintendo's other games aren't getting that level of attention.

But the hype indicates interest. Judging by the responses so far, the attitude seems to be "innocent until proven guilty" for Nintendo games, and "guilty until proven innocent" for everything else. That explains the lack of hype, and it's an attitude that Nintendo fans should change.

I don't want to get into a debate over the quantity of quality games from Nintendo vs. everyone else. After all, this is a Nintendo fan forum, and I could guess the outcome. But again, it's the attitude that makes it all too easy for even high quality third party games to slip through the cracks. It happened a lot on the 'Cube.

But going back to my original question of what would raise interest, I want to know what would help turn up the hype machine for more third party games. You guys need to be my source of insight.

[TV Eye]

Well Nester, I'd like to point out that the most wanted characters for Super Smash Bros are third party...

Anyways, Nintendo's been something that people know will produce good games. With third parties, its unpredictable!

To answer your question, I believe a good way for third party games to get more recognition would be if Nintendo took a brake for awhile a let trusted companies make games on their hiatus.

Look at the PS2. It's probably my favorite gaming system and every game on it is practically third party! Sony doesn't really make games, so that opens more doors for people to buy all the other games.

I don't know. When it comes to Mario or something like Cooking Mama, I will definitely choose Mario (which is kinda sad cause I heard Cooking Mama was a pretty good game oh well...)

Also, I noticed people don't really reply to threads here...I posted some awhile ago but they're still drifting around.

[thores]

This is only a suggestion and not a demand, but maybe make sure that you've actually played the third party game you've showcased, and then tell us exactly HOW good it is. Without this factor in your current articles, you're raising awareness to the game, which is great, but you're not raising any hype. Sure, the game's out there, but is it worth buying? Renting? If your mission is to get more people playing third party games on Nintendo systems, then you need to convince them that the third-party game you're pitching is a good game, instead of "Hey, you might like this!". Also, screen shots and cool trivia. Cause those things are neat and otherwise half the posters at this forum have the attention span of a dying hamster.

Personally, I play tons of third party games. I still get games for my old-school Playstation and Dreamcast when I get the chance, and while I can't say this for my Wii yet, exactly half the Gamecube games I own are third-party. The reason I don't post much in the third-party forums is because, well, I don't post much period. I've been here over a year and have less than 400 posts to show for it. I might also be more inclined to post here if there was more activity, which of course is a dilemma in itself!

Also, there honestly just aren't many third-party games currently out for the Wii that are truly worth getting yet. That definitely looks like it will change when we get NiGHTS, Zack & Wiki, and No More Heroes at the end of this year and the beginning of the next, but seriously, what else are third parties offering us in the near future? Not much, from what I can tell.

The DS, however, has a shitload of fantastic third party games both already released and lined up for the future. So I guess this forum in particular has no excuse for being so dead.

But anyways, don't give up yet. Hopefully as more quality third-party titles pour in, activity here (and sales for third parties) will rise.