What's with all the damn complaining! Part Deux

[Smashchu]

thores said:

A string of lousy updates is better than no updates at all. In that regard, you're plenty spoiled.

It's not that I hate the update. It's that they are all together in one big group. But don't give me the "Some better then none" because at this point, it's old news. I like updates, but not 50 bad updates in a row becuase all the good ones were clustered together. Clustering is not what we want here. Hopefully there will be something good in the future. Like it or not, this could effect sales of on the fence buyers.

I vote lock the topic because this is part two of something that died long ago. Not to mention it is part 1 with a different date.

[8bitretroshit]

Think of it like this: if they get all little updates out of the way now, they can spam new character updates once per week when it's released in Japan.

Ofcourse by then people will have seen the complete roster already so the new character updates will be regarded as boring updates too.

[Fryguy64]

I am largely of the opinion that there is nothing wrong with complaining about individual updates so long as you explain yourself. I am getting rather tired of these "stop complaining" posts though.

I mean, come on! We are complaining because for months we had awesome update after awesome update, and now we're getting close to the release date, we've suddenly started getting absolute dross. Today's is a particularly bitter pill - Meta-Knight's special moves FOR A SECOND TIME!? (luckily, the bitter pill was softened with a music update).

There are so many unanswered questions, and so many updates we know about from videos, but still want more info about. I mean, when will we find out if Zelda still transforms? When will we get another excellent Assist Trophy update, now we know that Jill, Metroids and Saki from Sin & Punishment (!!!) are in the game? We know of more Pokemon, more items, more stages - those are just the ones we've already seen in videos as well! Has Ditto been reinstated from Melee? What are the special moves and final smashes of other characters? We only have one SSE boss update so far. Is Ridley a boss? And so on and so on...

So with all this in mind let's look at this month's updates. Red is disappointing, green is cool, and teal is for debatable:

Meta-Knight Final Smash - We'd seen it before, and it looks like a lame move.

On Screen Appearances - I personally thought this update was super-awesome.

Fire Emblem Theme - I always love a music update, even though it was one we'd (vaguely) heard at E For All. At least we can hear it clearly.

Fox's Misfortune - A cool SSE video with Diddy, Fox and Rayquaza. This possibly hints at Rayquaza being a boss character. Even if not - it's still cool.

Items from previous installments - A small selection of returning items. The stopwatch was subtly revealed in this update, but it was a bland update nonetheless.

Grab and Throw - Whoop!

Lucas Special Moves - This is teal, because we finally found out Lucas's special moves (good) but it turns out he's a lot more like Ness than we had originally imagined (bad). So more about a character (good), Ness probably not in it (bad).

Norfair - Sure, we'd seen it at E For All, but it's still a good stage update. It would be nice if these updates were accompanied by music or something though.

Ike Final Smash - This rivals Meta-Knight for most disappointing Final Smash. A variation on one of his special moves? Urgh.

Three Different Taunts - Not bad, I suppose. But we already kinda knew this information, and it's far removed from being a great update.

Handicap - I can honestly say, I have never used handicap modes in any game I have ever played. I just take it easy on 'em until they get into the swing of things. Not that hard not to be a jerk!

Meta-Knight's Revenge - Music! Yay! And a great song no less, even though we once again vaguely heard it at E For All (that doesn't bother me as much as it bothers others).

Meta-Knight Special Moves - Deja Vu. Haven't we had this update already?! So we get a little more info than before?

The problem is, I'd now have to create a fourth colour category of "brand new characters/stages/modes that REALLY take your breath away!" And we haven't had one of them since the end of October (with the IC Summit stage), and before that, King Dedede.

Daily weekday updates are great, so long as we actually get something worth checking for from time to time. So we complain. Sakurai raised the bar so high, he can't be THAT surprised we're finding these updates somewhat lacking. We'll stop moaning when he surprises us once again.

And with Miyamoto's birthday this week (supposedly), we should probably expect something cool.

[Sqrt2]

Personally I'd categorise the Norfair update as a disappointing update. I was to be honest expecting a stage based around the Prime trilogy.

Although, there is still time for that to become a reality.

Here's hoping for a Falcon Friday. ;D

[Captain Walrus]

capnwalrus said:

But seriously, Sakurai could have easily doubled up handicap with a Kirby piece of music.

See? A little complaining and BAM! Sakurai doubles a lame update up with a Kirby piece of music. ;D

[Arcadenik]

Hmmm... Seems to me like a lot of people only cares about characters and whether they are playable or not. Is that why we look forward to new character profiles (veterans and newcomers) and Assist Trophies and Pokeball Pokemon updates?

But what if a character you dislike is confirmed to be playable? One would think he should object over it. What if a character you like is confirmed to be not playable? Should he object it or praise Sakurai?

[Dances in Undergarments]

I clicked today's update and as soon as I saw it, the first thing that came to my mind was 'oh, he's fucking with us now'.

And @ Flip, I've said this so many times, but theres no way they decided on the delay that day. They would have known for a while and planned the updates accordingly.

[Sqrt2]

arcadenik said:

But what if a character you dislike is confirmed to be playable?

That's already happened to me, so that's a bit of a no-brainer.

[Ike-Mike]

capnwalrus said:

And My Music has already confirmed tons of music that Sakurai could give samples of.

Eh, I think the My Music mode update is compensation alone for not giving us any sample of music.

[Fryguy64]

arcadenik said:

Hmmm... Seems to me like a lot of people only cares about characters and whether they are playable or not. Is that why we look forward to new character profiles (veterans and newcomers) and Assist Trophies and Pokeball Pokemon updates?

I think it's safe to say that the people watching the daily updates are fans of the game, and so are excited about new things that will be in the game. Characters are huge news, stages and game modes are (usually) big news, and items, assists and Pokemon are all good too.

But people tend to have an issue with updates that cover returning things, and rightfully so! If the target audience is players of the old games, then we don't need a bunch of updates bundled together about what's coming back. These things can be shown as parts of other updates, or in gameplay videos.

I don't understand why people get upset about updates that cover new things shown at E For All, or other live playtests. I mean... hardly anybody went to these shows and just watched a bunch of blurry, low-res videos. I might know about an update, but seeing a bunch of screenshots really brings it to life.

arcadenik said:

But what if a character you dislike is confirmed to be playable? One would think he should object over it. What if a character you like is confirmed to be not playable? Should he object it or praise Sakurai?

I don't understand why you would dislike a playable character without having played as them in battle yourself... I think that is incredibly narrow-minded, and is a sure sign of rabid fanboyism. The third party thing is happening, and anybody who hasn't gotten over it by now should probably not buy the game.

As for the other way round - a character you like confirmed as NOT being playable - I'm sure this is going to happen to us all, if it hasn't already. I know exactly who YOU are talking about, Arcadenik, as you have given us all brain-ache about this. But we're all going to have this at some point.

Fact is though, Sakurai wants this to be the best game he can, and is pouring so much thought into the playable rosters and trying to appease so many people. He's never going to achieve this fully - I remember people moaning about SSB and Melee because there were Pokemon in it. People bemoaned the Ice Climbers as too obscure before release, and Marth after release.

I 100% believe that Sakurai himself has done more thinking about the game, how to balance it, and how to make sure everybody enjoys it more than the entire collective of fanboys on the internet. Yes, it would have been great if Little Mac and Jill were playable, but they're not. What's the reason? We don't know, but you can guarantee there's a good one, otherwise Sakurai would have tried to make them playable!

So no, you should not bemoan Sakurai for anything he puts into the game, as it's going to be for a good reason. What THIS topic is about is nothing to do with what's in the game, as that's all gonna be good. Even grabbing and throwing is a good thing to put in a Smash game. But it doesn't make for a gripping website update as the release date draws near.

That's the point of this topic.

[Deleted]

On the subject of things we saw at those conferences, I kind of like the updates based on those demos; like Fry said, not many people went to those things and we only saw crappy off-screen videos based on 'em. To make things even worse, most of the people who did go didn't know much about Nintendo to begin with; so hearing about a "penguin that does ice-thrower" doesn't help us recognize what the hell the person reviewing is talking about.

These updates help clarify a lot of things that were left unsaid in those conferences, and you can really spot a lot of the subtle detail overlooked in those crap videos. I mean--Norfair is really dark! Like how everything on Bridge of Eldin is tinged orange due to the twilight. And you can see an area specifically from Super Metroid in the background now, too. And before, all we had on Ike's final smash was "does a lot of slashes, is kind of like Triforce Slash." Granted, it's actually more lame in execution, but at least we know about it now.

[8bitretroshit]

Why are people ripping on Ike's FS? It's fucking awesome, hell it's the reason I wanna try the dude out.

[Wildcat]

I agree. It's a nice homage to the Heroes and Mercenaries of Fire Emblem. ^_^

[Old Man Rupee]

I'm glad I only come to this bit of the forum when the truly BIG updates happen now, because I haven't been a part of this madness! I only comment when I really feel the urge to, you know?