Post by ChronoBound on Jul 14, 2008 14:14:30 GMT -5
Now that Super Smash Bros. Brawl has been released, many people were left satisfied and disappointed with the roster. While most of the roster’s choices were excellent, some were questionable in my opinion (Zero Suit Samus, Snake, three Star Fox characters). Overall, many people would say that the character decisions made with Brawl were better than in Melee (where undesirable clones such as Dr. Mario, Young Link, and Pichu were received, though personally I did not mind Doc and Pichu made a good punching bag). Two of the new “clones” that did appear in Brawl (Wolf and Lucas), were only clones in terms of specials and Final Smash, and they differed greatly with their A-moves (though some such as Falco, Toon Link, and Ganondorf, still shared much of their A-moves with their original counterparts). Overall, most of the characters on the Brawl roster differed greatly from one another.
However, as most of you may know, this was not originally the roster that Sakurai had intended for the third installment of this beloved fighting series. I am sure most of you have heard of the Forbidden 7. The Forbidden 7 are seven characters that were found within the game’s coding, but did not appear in the final game. Their folders within the game’s coding only contain a few effect files left, and will never be playable via a hacking device. The Forbidden 7 consist of Mewtwo, Roy, Dr. Mario, Dixie Kong, Plusle & Minun, Toon Zelda, and Toon Sheik. While some of these characters are desirable (Mewtwo, Roy, Dixie Kong, and even Doc in some people’s eyes), some of the others many people would have disagreed with (Plusle & Minun, Toon Zelda, Toon Sheik, and Dr. Mario to people who despised to him in Melee).
Many people wish that at least Mewtwo and Roy had been fully implemented in the final game as playable characters. It is for this reason that early on, prior to Sakurai’s deconfirmation, that many people held onto the hope of download content for Brawl. However, believe it or not, it is likely that most of the Forbidden 7 had been playable at one point in Brawl’s development. By looking at the game’s coding, I have inferred that Sakurai was originally intending for Brawl to be a continuation of Melee, and as this topic moves along, you will see how Sakurai’s thinking changed as the roster was altered. I hope to shed some insight that had not been mentioned yet regarding the Forbidden 7, and the development of Brawl’s roster.
First off, Sakurai said that he determined Brawl’s roster in July 2005. With that in mind, it made all our support threads worthless in the grand scheme of things. I speculate that the only two characters that Sakurai did not have on this July 2005 roster were, Lucario, Ike, Lucas, Sonic, and Wolf. Sakurai would later add in Lucario and Ike, after probably wanting to place in characters from recent installments in series. Lucas was probably decided on to add once Mother 3 was released (Mother 3 was not released until April 2006). Wolf and Sonic would become “last-minute” additions judging by statements by Sakurai and inferences within the game’s coding.
Sakurai probably capped Brawl’s roster at 38 slots, three more than in the final game. You might be saying “it should be 40 with Dixie Kong and Toon Sheik factored in”. However, keep in mind that Toon Sheik would have most likely have been a transformation for Toon Zelda, and Dixie Kong was stated to have been teamed up with Diddy according to Sakurai in an issue of Famitsu (though he cut Dixie because he said that his team could not get it to work). You might be wondering how the character selection screen would had been arranged with this particular 38 character roster in mind. Well, after some planning and arranging, this is what Sakurai most likely had in mind for this 38 character roster:
Mario | DK | Link | Samus | Kirby | Fox | Pikachu | Marth
Luigi | D&D| Zelda | Pit | Meta | Falco | Trainer | Ike
Peach | Yoshi| Ganon| G&W| Dedede | Falcon| Lucario| Roy
Bowser| Wario| TLink| Ice | Ness | Olimar | Jigglypuff | Plusle & Minun
Random| Doc | TZelda| R.O.B.| Lucas| Snake | Mewtwo | Random
Now let me explain why I selected this as the most probable arrangement. Like with the final roster in Brawl, the characters are grouped together in columns with a certain theme. The first column contains Mario characters. The second column contains characters from Mario spinoff series (Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Wario, Dr. Mario). You may be questioning why I put Dr. Mario in this column considering that he was considered a Mario character in Melee, well, I have good reason for putting him there. First, Dr. Mario can be considered to be a spinoff series of Mario considering that the Dr. Mario series has had multiple installments and is a puzzle series, as opposed to a platformer series like the main Mario series. The series icon could easily be a Megavitamin. Also, in Brawl, the Dr. Mario series was viewed as being its own series. Examples of this can be seen in the sound test and sticker album. While Paper Mario stickers (and trophies) are grouped with the Mario part of the album, Dr. Mario series stickers are near the end of it, being considered to be part of Nintendo Puzzle Collection. Also, the one new Dr. Mario song that was added to Brawl (Chill) is not grouped with the Mario songs, instead, it is under Nintendo. It is these two things that make me believe that if Doc was going to return, Sakurai would have grouped him into his own series, as opposed to a Mario series representative. The third column obviously contains nothing but Zelda characters. The fourth column is interesting. The first three slots contain the main protagonists of the Gunpei Yokoi’s team’s most famous series (Metroid, Kid Icarus, Game & Watch), while the last two contain characters that are strictly from the NES (Kid Icarus did get a sequel on the original Game Boy in 1992). The fifth column is a bit odd, the first three slots belong to Kirby characters, while the last two belong to Mother characters. While one can say these are light-hearted series (and Sakurai himself grouped Kirby with Mother in All-Star Match 3 in Melee), Mother is light-hearted only at first glance (Mother 3 definitely has a lot of dark elements to it), though Mother overall is very humorous and suppose have an overall light-hearted nature to it (though Mother 3 deviated from that formula quite a bit). The sixth column contains sci-fi series such as Star Fox, F-Zero, Pikmin, and Metal Gear. All of these series have strong science fiction elements to them, and with the exception of Metroid, are all the science fiction series in Brawl. The seventh column is Pokemon, and contains nothing but Pokemon characters. The eighth column contains three Fire Emblem characters and one Pokemon character. However, you might wondering why a Pokemon character is off by itself. Well, consider that in Melee that Ganondorf was not grouped with the other Zelda characters, and that Captain Falcon was in a row that contained nothing but Mario and Mario spinoff characters (with the exception of Ganondorf), Sakurai making another odd character placement from a represented series off by itself would not be far-fetched, and few people would complain. Finally, you might be wondering why there are two random icons. In Melee, there were two random icons. Sakurai, most likely entered Brawl development with the same mindset he had in Melee, and thought that two random icons would offer “balance”, and two random icons would help to make this characters selection set-up “work” (meaning it would look very nice for the most part, with the only odd placement being the one Pokemon character in the Fire Emblem row).
This Beta Brawl Roster arrangement reveals to us several aspects of Sakurai’s decision-making and planning regarding Brawl earlier in development. One is that there is a good chance that the roster presented above was most likely seriously considered. The arrangement above works too well. Also, assuming that this roster placement was what Sakurai had in mind with the Beta Brawl Roster, we can infer that Sakurai was developing Brawl with nearly the same mindset as he did with Melee. For one, there are two random slots as there were in Melee, as well as an abundance of “clones”. Dr. Mario, Ganondorf, Toon Link, Toon Zelda, Lucas, Falco, Roy, and Plusle & Minun, were probably going to be clones in the Melee sense (in that both their specials and A-moves would be similar to their original). Sakurai probably saw no problem with clones, and most likely saw them as a good thing since they beefed up the roster. The only character that was not in the Beta Brawl Roster that was in Melee was Pichu (Young Link was replaced by Toon Link). The main reason why Pichu is the sole character not to be included was because even back in Melee, Sakurai’s team placed in Pichu as a joke, and I am sure even Sakurai heard the disdain many people had for Pichu (whereas even Doc had a healthy amount of fans, due to being a tourney viable character). Also, he was probably planning on having Plusle & Minun be Pichu’s replacement, much like how Toon Link was Young Link’s replacement.
However, as Brawl development went on, Sakurai’s development mindset would change. After probably observing fan feedback on what characters they wanted to see in Brawl, he probably learned of the disdain many fans of Smash Bros. had for clones. With this revelation in mind, Sakurai took it upon his team to take out some of the clones (Toon Zelda, Toon Sheik, Dr. Mario) and make some of the ones he kept (Lucas, Falco, Ganondorf, Toon Link, and perhaps Roy) Luigified. However, you are probably wondering what happened to Dixie Kong and Plusle & Minun. Well, as mentioned earlier, Dixie Kong was taken out because she was originally planned to tag along with Diddy Kong, however, for some reason, Sakurai’s team could not get the two characters to work, so they simply made Diddy by himself. As for Plusle & Minun, it really depends on what Sakurai was planning to do with them. If he was planning on simply making them a Pikachu clone, he probably cut them because he knew people disliked clones. However, if they were going to be characters that relied upon one another to do attacks (like with Diddy and Dixie), then the reason they were cut was due to the team not getting them to work. With these cuts, the roster was dropped down to 35 slots, with only one random icon on the character selection screen.
This beta Brawl roster is very similar to the one that we have now, with the exception that it contains Mewtwo and Roy, but lacks Sonic and Wolf. This roster will be called Brawl Roster RM (Roy-Mewtwo). Mewtwo and Roy were most likely fully completed and playable and made it farther along than any other of the Forbidden 7. The main evidence to support this is within the game’s coding. There are listings within Brawl’s data for unique victory themes for every character that is currently in Brawl (with the exception of Wolf). In the coding, victory themes for Mewtwo and Roy are listed. However, what infers to me that these two were completed is that they are between Jigglypuff’s listed victory theme and Toon Link’s victory theme (where in the coding Sonic’s comes after Toon Link’s, and there is nothing for Wolf). The order in which these characters are numbered within the coding is integral. Notice how in the final game, Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf are listed as the last characters (with the only ones coming after them being Snake and Sonic, simply because they are third-party “guest” characters). This means that Mewtwo and Roy were completed before Toon Link, Sonic, and Wolf were.
With this in mind, if Brawl Roster RM were our final roster, the listing in Brawl would have went like this, “Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Roy, Toon Link”. Toon Link was likely the last character that was completed for the RM roster. Also, to people that speculate that Mewtwo would have been a major character in the SSE had he not been cut, due to where he is listed within the game’s coding, both he and Roy, would have the same role as Jigglypuff and Toon Link (and later Wolf) in the SSE, which is appear after entering a certain door once you beat the SSE. Roy would have most likely have his hidden door in Marth’s castle, whereas Mewtwo’s door most likely would have been in one of the Floating Island Research Facility levels. With this in mind, contrary to popular thought, Sakurai was not choosing between Mewtwo and Jigglypuff for a spot on the roster, and that he intended originally for both to be in the game. Here is the most likely arrangement for Brawl Roster RM:
Mario | DK | Link | Samus | Kirby | Fox | Pikachu | Marth | Ness
Luigi| Diddy| Zelda| Pit | Meta | Falco | Trainer | Ike | Lucas
Peach| Yoshi| Ganon| Ice| Dedede| Falcon| Lucario| Roy | G&W
Bowser| Wario| TLink| ROB| Olimar| Snake| Jiggly| Mewtwo| Random
As can be seen although only two characters have been replaced from the final Brawl roster, Brawl Roster RM’s roster differs quite a bit from the arrangement of the final Brawl roster, and has many similarities to the proposed arrangement for the Beta Brawl Roster. The first five columns remain the same as they were in the final game. The sixth column differs from the absence of Wolf, however, the theme stays the same, which is darker sci-fi series. The seventh column stays the same. The eighth column is very much different than the one in the final game. Roy and Mewtwo make up this row, and the way it is arranged leaves further credence to the arrangement of the Beta Brawl Roster, meaning that the one Pokemon character hanging out in the Fire Emblem row, still carried over this late in development. The ninth column is radically different from its final counterpart. It contains series with multiple installments but are finished (Itoi has said Mother 3 is the final game in the Mother series, and Game & Watch has not had a new game outside of compilations since 1989). The random icon makes up the last slot to this row, just like in the final game. As can be seen this roster draws upon both the Beta Brawl Roster arrangement (which lays more credence to it) and the final Brawl roster character selection screen. It is very likely that this is what Sakurai had intended to be the final game’s roster. However, as many of you know, this would not come to pass, due to a furry invasion.
Sakurai in June of 2006 in the e-mail bag section of the Japanese Smash Bros. site said that he may add another one or two third-party characters. Many Westerners misinterpreted this as him saying that he would definitely be adding another two third-party characters. Many people thus thought Sonic was a shoe-in for Brawl, as well as Mega Man for the third third-party slot. Many people speculated that Sonic would be shown around E3, however, as many of you know, he would not be show until October with the announcement of another delay for Brawl. However, what many people did not realize was that Sonic was not a shoe-in, and that he was actually either the last or second-to-last character to be placed into the game (notice how most of Sonic’s moves consist of him rolling into a ball or borrow from another character’s moveset).
Most likely during late 2006 or early 2007, Sakurai caught wind of the demand for Sonic to be in the game among Western Smash Bros. fans. Sakurai must have been conflicted, he probably wanted to stay with the roster he already had (which was Brawl Roster RM), however, he felt that there would be a massive fan backlash in the West if Sonic was not a part of the roster. While he had enough time to add Sonic, there had to be a cut. There was simply no way he could make a 36 character roster that had no random icon. So with the addition of Sonic most likely came the axing of either Roy or Mewtwo. Let’s hypothetically say Roy was cut for Sonic. However, even with Sonic in the game, there was no place for Sonic on the character selection screen without looking awkward (through a column theme perspective). Sakurai also perhaps felt that Sonic was merely a character for the Western fanbase. So Sakurai searched for a character that would please the Japanese fanbase and be able to restore “balance” to the character selection screen. He decided upon Wolf, who was one of the most requested characters among Japanese Smash fans. Wolf was made into a Luigified clone of Fox, with different A-moves, but similar specials and a Final Smash. With this, Sakurai pulled Mewtwo out of the game and placed in Wolf. So in essence, it was Sonic and Wolf that stole the spots to Mewtwo and Roy, not Jigglypuff and Ike, like so many posters here claim.
However, Sakurai’s decision to axe Mewtwo and Roy was hasty in my opinion. While there would be no logical way to arrange a 37 character roster with Mewtwo and Roy, the return of a certain doctor would have made a 38 character roster very easy to arrange. Let’s say both Mewtwo and Roy were fully complete when Sakurai exchanged them for Sonic and Wolf. That would leave us with a 37 slot roster. However, I am certain that there was more than enough time to add a quick easy clone. The easiest character to implement within even just six months would be Dr. Mario. All Dr. Mario would need would be a codec, the announcer to say his name, and his own trophy and Final Smash trophy. Dr. Mario would have the same voice as Mario so there would be no need to record new voice effects, and he would also take minimal programming efforts (he would be using much of Mario’s file effects, much like how Luigi uses much of Mario’s file effects). Also, since Dr. Mario would be a last-minute addition for the sake of keeping Mewtwo and Roy on the roster, he would not even need Luigification, and even if he were to stay the same from Melee, he could be argued as a Luigified clone of Mario (since he would have different special, and down-air). Dr. Mario’s Final Smash could just be a cloned version of Mario’s Final Smash, where he either shoots out a bunch of Megavitamins from his hands or a bunch of electricity. Also, the time being spent to Dr. Mario, would have distracted Sakurai’s team from making Brawl casual friendly and
”less competitive”. According to many people who attended E4ALL, the Brawl demo there resembled Melee more closely than it resembled the final version of Brawl. Also, in case you are wondering, here is what a roster with Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario added in would most likely look like.
Mario | DK | Samus | Kirby | Fox | Pikachu | Marth | Link
Luigi| Diddy| Pit| Meta | Falco | Trainer | Ike | Zelda
Peach| Yoshi| G&W| Dedede| Wolf| Lucario| Roy | Ganon
Bowser| Wario| Ice| Olimar| Falcon| Jiggly| Ness| TLink
Random| Doc| ROB| Sonic| Snake| Mewtwo| Lucas| Random
As can be seen, this roster closely resembles the Brawl Beta Roster layout in many ways. The first column ends with a random icon. The second column has the Mario spinoff protagonists, with Dr. Mario at the end of it (who will be grouped as being a part of his own series). The third column now contains Gunpei Yokoi’s team’s creations taking up the first three slots, with two NES exclusive characters making up the last two. The fourth column consists of light-hearted series such as Kirby, Sonic, and Pikmin. The fifth column contains characters from darker sci-fi series such as Star Fox, F-Zero, and Metal Gear. The sixth column has all of the Pokemon characters within one row. The seventh column has characters from two of Nintendo’s RPG series, Fire Emblem and Mother. The eighth row has Zelda’s four characters, and a random icon at the end of it. With the exception of the Zelda series being at the end of the character selection screen, this setup could be argued to be just as good, if not better, than the character selection screen for Brawl.
So my question to you all is, would you have allowed Dr. Mario back into Smash Bros. if it had meant Mewtwo and Roy not being axed. However, “sacrifices” for including the good doctor would include an extra random icon on the character selection screen, the Zelda series being at the end of it, and the possibility of Brawl being much more similar to Melee in terms of play style. So would you agree to Dr. Mario being added if it meant what I described above?
Overall, we may never know the reasons why the Forbidden 7 were cut, or how far along they were, however, the ideas and theories presented in this topic are the best evidence we have as to what most likely had happened to them. I would have preferred Mewtwo and Roy would have stayed over Sonic and Wolf, however, I feel that many people on this board would disagree with that notion, so simply accept and maybe even respect my unique, differing opinion. I feel the best action Sakurai should have taken assuming both Mewtwo and Roy were completed, would be to add in Dr. Mario (leaving us with a 38 slot roster). I feel many more people would have been happy with these three characters added, than if they were not in (really, the only one I can see people whining about would be Doc, and even then he would probably be much more popular than regular Mario considering how much weaker regular Mario was made).
That concludes another one of my long essay topics, and I hope that many of you that chose to read this entire thing in its entirety enjoyed reading it and helped to shed light on the Forbidden 7 and Brawl’s development. While many of you mock long topics such as this one, I do understand that there are some of you that appreciate the effort and insight I put into them, and I am very much thankful for the gratification you get from my essays. Thank you again for your time and patience.
Sincerely,
Snakey/ChronoBound
However, as most of you may know, this was not originally the roster that Sakurai had intended for the third installment of this beloved fighting series. I am sure most of you have heard of the Forbidden 7. The Forbidden 7 are seven characters that were found within the game’s coding, but did not appear in the final game. Their folders within the game’s coding only contain a few effect files left, and will never be playable via a hacking device. The Forbidden 7 consist of Mewtwo, Roy, Dr. Mario, Dixie Kong, Plusle & Minun, Toon Zelda, and Toon Sheik. While some of these characters are desirable (Mewtwo, Roy, Dixie Kong, and even Doc in some people’s eyes), some of the others many people would have disagreed with (Plusle & Minun, Toon Zelda, Toon Sheik, and Dr. Mario to people who despised to him in Melee).
Many people wish that at least Mewtwo and Roy had been fully implemented in the final game as playable characters. It is for this reason that early on, prior to Sakurai’s deconfirmation, that many people held onto the hope of download content for Brawl. However, believe it or not, it is likely that most of the Forbidden 7 had been playable at one point in Brawl’s development. By looking at the game’s coding, I have inferred that Sakurai was originally intending for Brawl to be a continuation of Melee, and as this topic moves along, you will see how Sakurai’s thinking changed as the roster was altered. I hope to shed some insight that had not been mentioned yet regarding the Forbidden 7, and the development of Brawl’s roster.
First off, Sakurai said that he determined Brawl’s roster in July 2005. With that in mind, it made all our support threads worthless in the grand scheme of things. I speculate that the only two characters that Sakurai did not have on this July 2005 roster were, Lucario, Ike, Lucas, Sonic, and Wolf. Sakurai would later add in Lucario and Ike, after probably wanting to place in characters from recent installments in series. Lucas was probably decided on to add once Mother 3 was released (Mother 3 was not released until April 2006). Wolf and Sonic would become “last-minute” additions judging by statements by Sakurai and inferences within the game’s coding.
Sakurai probably capped Brawl’s roster at 38 slots, three more than in the final game. You might be saying “it should be 40 with Dixie Kong and Toon Sheik factored in”. However, keep in mind that Toon Sheik would have most likely have been a transformation for Toon Zelda, and Dixie Kong was stated to have been teamed up with Diddy according to Sakurai in an issue of Famitsu (though he cut Dixie because he said that his team could not get it to work). You might be wondering how the character selection screen would had been arranged with this particular 38 character roster in mind. Well, after some planning and arranging, this is what Sakurai most likely had in mind for this 38 character roster:
Mario | DK | Link | Samus | Kirby | Fox | Pikachu | Marth
Luigi | D&D| Zelda | Pit | Meta | Falco | Trainer | Ike
Peach | Yoshi| Ganon| G&W| Dedede | Falcon| Lucario| Roy
Bowser| Wario| TLink| Ice | Ness | Olimar | Jigglypuff | Plusle & Minun
Random| Doc | TZelda| R.O.B.| Lucas| Snake | Mewtwo | Random
Now let me explain why I selected this as the most probable arrangement. Like with the final roster in Brawl, the characters are grouped together in columns with a certain theme. The first column contains Mario characters. The second column contains characters from Mario spinoff series (Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Wario, Dr. Mario). You may be questioning why I put Dr. Mario in this column considering that he was considered a Mario character in Melee, well, I have good reason for putting him there. First, Dr. Mario can be considered to be a spinoff series of Mario considering that the Dr. Mario series has had multiple installments and is a puzzle series, as opposed to a platformer series like the main Mario series. The series icon could easily be a Megavitamin. Also, in Brawl, the Dr. Mario series was viewed as being its own series. Examples of this can be seen in the sound test and sticker album. While Paper Mario stickers (and trophies) are grouped with the Mario part of the album, Dr. Mario series stickers are near the end of it, being considered to be part of Nintendo Puzzle Collection. Also, the one new Dr. Mario song that was added to Brawl (Chill) is not grouped with the Mario songs, instead, it is under Nintendo. It is these two things that make me believe that if Doc was going to return, Sakurai would have grouped him into his own series, as opposed to a Mario series representative. The third column obviously contains nothing but Zelda characters. The fourth column is interesting. The first three slots contain the main protagonists of the Gunpei Yokoi’s team’s most famous series (Metroid, Kid Icarus, Game & Watch), while the last two contain characters that are strictly from the NES (Kid Icarus did get a sequel on the original Game Boy in 1992). The fifth column is a bit odd, the first three slots belong to Kirby characters, while the last two belong to Mother characters. While one can say these are light-hearted series (and Sakurai himself grouped Kirby with Mother in All-Star Match 3 in Melee), Mother is light-hearted only at first glance (Mother 3 definitely has a lot of dark elements to it), though Mother overall is very humorous and suppose have an overall light-hearted nature to it (though Mother 3 deviated from that formula quite a bit). The sixth column contains sci-fi series such as Star Fox, F-Zero, Pikmin, and Metal Gear. All of these series have strong science fiction elements to them, and with the exception of Metroid, are all the science fiction series in Brawl. The seventh column is Pokemon, and contains nothing but Pokemon characters. The eighth column contains three Fire Emblem characters and one Pokemon character. However, you might wondering why a Pokemon character is off by itself. Well, consider that in Melee that Ganondorf was not grouped with the other Zelda characters, and that Captain Falcon was in a row that contained nothing but Mario and Mario spinoff characters (with the exception of Ganondorf), Sakurai making another odd character placement from a represented series off by itself would not be far-fetched, and few people would complain. Finally, you might be wondering why there are two random icons. In Melee, there were two random icons. Sakurai, most likely entered Brawl development with the same mindset he had in Melee, and thought that two random icons would offer “balance”, and two random icons would help to make this characters selection set-up “work” (meaning it would look very nice for the most part, with the only odd placement being the one Pokemon character in the Fire Emblem row).
This Beta Brawl Roster arrangement reveals to us several aspects of Sakurai’s decision-making and planning regarding Brawl earlier in development. One is that there is a good chance that the roster presented above was most likely seriously considered. The arrangement above works too well. Also, assuming that this roster placement was what Sakurai had in mind with the Beta Brawl Roster, we can infer that Sakurai was developing Brawl with nearly the same mindset as he did with Melee. For one, there are two random slots as there were in Melee, as well as an abundance of “clones”. Dr. Mario, Ganondorf, Toon Link, Toon Zelda, Lucas, Falco, Roy, and Plusle & Minun, were probably going to be clones in the Melee sense (in that both their specials and A-moves would be similar to their original). Sakurai probably saw no problem with clones, and most likely saw them as a good thing since they beefed up the roster. The only character that was not in the Beta Brawl Roster that was in Melee was Pichu (Young Link was replaced by Toon Link). The main reason why Pichu is the sole character not to be included was because even back in Melee, Sakurai’s team placed in Pichu as a joke, and I am sure even Sakurai heard the disdain many people had for Pichu (whereas even Doc had a healthy amount of fans, due to being a tourney viable character). Also, he was probably planning on having Plusle & Minun be Pichu’s replacement, much like how Toon Link was Young Link’s replacement.
However, as Brawl development went on, Sakurai’s development mindset would change. After probably observing fan feedback on what characters they wanted to see in Brawl, he probably learned of the disdain many fans of Smash Bros. had for clones. With this revelation in mind, Sakurai took it upon his team to take out some of the clones (Toon Zelda, Toon Sheik, Dr. Mario) and make some of the ones he kept (Lucas, Falco, Ganondorf, Toon Link, and perhaps Roy) Luigified. However, you are probably wondering what happened to Dixie Kong and Plusle & Minun. Well, as mentioned earlier, Dixie Kong was taken out because she was originally planned to tag along with Diddy Kong, however, for some reason, Sakurai’s team could not get the two characters to work, so they simply made Diddy by himself. As for Plusle & Minun, it really depends on what Sakurai was planning to do with them. If he was planning on simply making them a Pikachu clone, he probably cut them because he knew people disliked clones. However, if they were going to be characters that relied upon one another to do attacks (like with Diddy and Dixie), then the reason they were cut was due to the team not getting them to work. With these cuts, the roster was dropped down to 35 slots, with only one random icon on the character selection screen.
This beta Brawl roster is very similar to the one that we have now, with the exception that it contains Mewtwo and Roy, but lacks Sonic and Wolf. This roster will be called Brawl Roster RM (Roy-Mewtwo). Mewtwo and Roy were most likely fully completed and playable and made it farther along than any other of the Forbidden 7. The main evidence to support this is within the game’s coding. There are listings within Brawl’s data for unique victory themes for every character that is currently in Brawl (with the exception of Wolf). In the coding, victory themes for Mewtwo and Roy are listed. However, what infers to me that these two were completed is that they are between Jigglypuff’s listed victory theme and Toon Link’s victory theme (where in the coding Sonic’s comes after Toon Link’s, and there is nothing for Wolf). The order in which these characters are numbered within the coding is integral. Notice how in the final game, Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf are listed as the last characters (with the only ones coming after them being Snake and Sonic, simply because they are third-party “guest” characters). This means that Mewtwo and Roy were completed before Toon Link, Sonic, and Wolf were.
With this in mind, if Brawl Roster RM were our final roster, the listing in Brawl would have went like this, “Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Roy, Toon Link”. Toon Link was likely the last character that was completed for the RM roster. Also, to people that speculate that Mewtwo would have been a major character in the SSE had he not been cut, due to where he is listed within the game’s coding, both he and Roy, would have the same role as Jigglypuff and Toon Link (and later Wolf) in the SSE, which is appear after entering a certain door once you beat the SSE. Roy would have most likely have his hidden door in Marth’s castle, whereas Mewtwo’s door most likely would have been in one of the Floating Island Research Facility levels. With this in mind, contrary to popular thought, Sakurai was not choosing between Mewtwo and Jigglypuff for a spot on the roster, and that he intended originally for both to be in the game. Here is the most likely arrangement for Brawl Roster RM:
Mario | DK | Link | Samus | Kirby | Fox | Pikachu | Marth | Ness
Luigi| Diddy| Zelda| Pit | Meta | Falco | Trainer | Ike | Lucas
Peach| Yoshi| Ganon| Ice| Dedede| Falcon| Lucario| Roy | G&W
Bowser| Wario| TLink| ROB| Olimar| Snake| Jiggly| Mewtwo| Random
As can be seen although only two characters have been replaced from the final Brawl roster, Brawl Roster RM’s roster differs quite a bit from the arrangement of the final Brawl roster, and has many similarities to the proposed arrangement for the Beta Brawl Roster. The first five columns remain the same as they were in the final game. The sixth column differs from the absence of Wolf, however, the theme stays the same, which is darker sci-fi series. The seventh column stays the same. The eighth column is very much different than the one in the final game. Roy and Mewtwo make up this row, and the way it is arranged leaves further credence to the arrangement of the Beta Brawl Roster, meaning that the one Pokemon character hanging out in the Fire Emblem row, still carried over this late in development. The ninth column is radically different from its final counterpart. It contains series with multiple installments but are finished (Itoi has said Mother 3 is the final game in the Mother series, and Game & Watch has not had a new game outside of compilations since 1989). The random icon makes up the last slot to this row, just like in the final game. As can be seen this roster draws upon both the Beta Brawl Roster arrangement (which lays more credence to it) and the final Brawl roster character selection screen. It is very likely that this is what Sakurai had intended to be the final game’s roster. However, as many of you know, this would not come to pass, due to a furry invasion.
Sakurai in June of 2006 in the e-mail bag section of the Japanese Smash Bros. site said that he may add another one or two third-party characters. Many Westerners misinterpreted this as him saying that he would definitely be adding another two third-party characters. Many people thus thought Sonic was a shoe-in for Brawl, as well as Mega Man for the third third-party slot. Many people speculated that Sonic would be shown around E3, however, as many of you know, he would not be show until October with the announcement of another delay for Brawl. However, what many people did not realize was that Sonic was not a shoe-in, and that he was actually either the last or second-to-last character to be placed into the game (notice how most of Sonic’s moves consist of him rolling into a ball or borrow from another character’s moveset).
Most likely during late 2006 or early 2007, Sakurai caught wind of the demand for Sonic to be in the game among Western Smash Bros. fans. Sakurai must have been conflicted, he probably wanted to stay with the roster he already had (which was Brawl Roster RM), however, he felt that there would be a massive fan backlash in the West if Sonic was not a part of the roster. While he had enough time to add Sonic, there had to be a cut. There was simply no way he could make a 36 character roster that had no random icon. So with the addition of Sonic most likely came the axing of either Roy or Mewtwo. Let’s hypothetically say Roy was cut for Sonic. However, even with Sonic in the game, there was no place for Sonic on the character selection screen without looking awkward (through a column theme perspective). Sakurai also perhaps felt that Sonic was merely a character for the Western fanbase. So Sakurai searched for a character that would please the Japanese fanbase and be able to restore “balance” to the character selection screen. He decided upon Wolf, who was one of the most requested characters among Japanese Smash fans. Wolf was made into a Luigified clone of Fox, with different A-moves, but similar specials and a Final Smash. With this, Sakurai pulled Mewtwo out of the game and placed in Wolf. So in essence, it was Sonic and Wolf that stole the spots to Mewtwo and Roy, not Jigglypuff and Ike, like so many posters here claim.
However, Sakurai’s decision to axe Mewtwo and Roy was hasty in my opinion. While there would be no logical way to arrange a 37 character roster with Mewtwo and Roy, the return of a certain doctor would have made a 38 character roster very easy to arrange. Let’s say both Mewtwo and Roy were fully complete when Sakurai exchanged them for Sonic and Wolf. That would leave us with a 37 slot roster. However, I am certain that there was more than enough time to add a quick easy clone. The easiest character to implement within even just six months would be Dr. Mario. All Dr. Mario would need would be a codec, the announcer to say his name, and his own trophy and Final Smash trophy. Dr. Mario would have the same voice as Mario so there would be no need to record new voice effects, and he would also take minimal programming efforts (he would be using much of Mario’s file effects, much like how Luigi uses much of Mario’s file effects). Also, since Dr. Mario would be a last-minute addition for the sake of keeping Mewtwo and Roy on the roster, he would not even need Luigification, and even if he were to stay the same from Melee, he could be argued as a Luigified clone of Mario (since he would have different special, and down-air). Dr. Mario’s Final Smash could just be a cloned version of Mario’s Final Smash, where he either shoots out a bunch of Megavitamins from his hands or a bunch of electricity. Also, the time being spent to Dr. Mario, would have distracted Sakurai’s team from making Brawl casual friendly and
”less competitive”. According to many people who attended E4ALL, the Brawl demo there resembled Melee more closely than it resembled the final version of Brawl. Also, in case you are wondering, here is what a roster with Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario added in would most likely look like.
Mario | DK | Samus | Kirby | Fox | Pikachu | Marth | Link
Luigi| Diddy| Pit| Meta | Falco | Trainer | Ike | Zelda
Peach| Yoshi| G&W| Dedede| Wolf| Lucario| Roy | Ganon
Bowser| Wario| Ice| Olimar| Falcon| Jiggly| Ness| TLink
Random| Doc| ROB| Sonic| Snake| Mewtwo| Lucas| Random
As can be seen, this roster closely resembles the Brawl Beta Roster layout in many ways. The first column ends with a random icon. The second column has the Mario spinoff protagonists, with Dr. Mario at the end of it (who will be grouped as being a part of his own series). The third column now contains Gunpei Yokoi’s team’s creations taking up the first three slots, with two NES exclusive characters making up the last two. The fourth column consists of light-hearted series such as Kirby, Sonic, and Pikmin. The fifth column contains characters from darker sci-fi series such as Star Fox, F-Zero, and Metal Gear. The sixth column has all of the Pokemon characters within one row. The seventh column has characters from two of Nintendo’s RPG series, Fire Emblem and Mother. The eighth row has Zelda’s four characters, and a random icon at the end of it. With the exception of the Zelda series being at the end of the character selection screen, this setup could be argued to be just as good, if not better, than the character selection screen for Brawl.
So my question to you all is, would you have allowed Dr. Mario back into Smash Bros. if it had meant Mewtwo and Roy not being axed. However, “sacrifices” for including the good doctor would include an extra random icon on the character selection screen, the Zelda series being at the end of it, and the possibility of Brawl being much more similar to Melee in terms of play style. So would you agree to Dr. Mario being added if it meant what I described above?
Overall, we may never know the reasons why the Forbidden 7 were cut, or how far along they were, however, the ideas and theories presented in this topic are the best evidence we have as to what most likely had happened to them. I would have preferred Mewtwo and Roy would have stayed over Sonic and Wolf, however, I feel that many people on this board would disagree with that notion, so simply accept and maybe even respect my unique, differing opinion. I feel the best action Sakurai should have taken assuming both Mewtwo and Roy were completed, would be to add in Dr. Mario (leaving us with a 38 slot roster). I feel many more people would have been happy with these three characters added, than if they were not in (really, the only one I can see people whining about would be Doc, and even then he would probably be much more popular than regular Mario considering how much weaker regular Mario was made).
That concludes another one of my long essay topics, and I hope that many of you that chose to read this entire thing in its entirety enjoyed reading it and helped to shed light on the Forbidden 7 and Brawl’s development. While many of you mock long topics such as this one, I do understand that there are some of you that appreciate the effort and insight I put into them, and I am very much thankful for the gratification you get from my essays. Thank you again for your time and patience.
Sincerely,
Snakey/ChronoBound
