3DS Doubtful (A Wishlist of Sorts)

[mrmolecule]

As you may know, I no longer have the super-optimistic hopes and dreams I did as a fanboy, but I still have hopes for the 3DS.

Here's what I think.

1. I was super-disappointed with the Nintendo DS's inability to read GBC cartridges. It was even worse when my GBA started causing crashes whenever I tried to play GBC games. Since there's anti-piracy features on the 3DS (read: anti-homebrew), they should try to put in a "retro port" feature via peripherals. Said retro port would come in various flavors: one for GB/GBC/GBA, one for NES, one for SNES, one for N64, and -possibly- one for VB.

2. The anti-piracy features really worry me. The "always-on" feature I feel is invasive and is an attempt to cripple emulators and homebrew on the 3DS. Rather than hopeful thinking for hackers and the like, I think Nintendo should open the back door themselves by including USB and an official kit to install Linux. It's what the PS2 and PS3 did, essentially.

3. Finally, in the "games" department, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D should have the Ura Zelda enhancements built in. No, not Master Quest, Ura Zelda.

Here's a quote I snagged from Unseen64.net:

Zelda Ura ( “Another Zelda”) has already attained a legend status, and the maximium point of the absurdity that can reach the quest for unseens.After Ocarina was redeveloped for a cartridge release, Nintendo had the idea to create a 64 disk add-on with some of the features cut from the original game. As the released (in Japan) F-zero expansion, Ura was meant to be an “extension” to Ocarina Of time, with new mini-games,sub-quest, redesigned and new dungeons.In an interview, Miyamoto tells us that when the player reached the end of the Ocarina of Time, with Zelda Ura he could revisit the same world, but with new features, characters, and places to explore. Many questions and mysteries from Ocarina of Time would be aswered in Ura,like the invincible runner on Hirule Field, the Unicorn Fountain, the Ocarina Pedestal, and many others.

Here's another quote from TVTropes "What Could Have Been".

Master Quest is not the original Ura Zelda. I read that in an old copy of Wikipedia which refers to a dead link, Ura Zelda would've had new dungeons (possibly the fire/ice dungeon), new items, new attacks, magic spells, and custom masks created via Mario Artist: Talent Studio and Game Boy Camera.

That last little bit was actually originally referenced from NinDB. In reality, if Ura Zelda was to be integrated into OoT, it would likely take the masks from real photos. It would also be a great selling point, as so that people can experience the full Zelda experience as it was meant to be played. A killer app indeed.

[nocturnal YL]

1 - ...You want the 3DS to play catridges of NES/SNES/64/VB!? That kinda go against the very reason for the 3DS to be portable...

2 - Well, while I myself don't use those stuff, I have to agree. Back then, I never bothered to buy the GBA because of emulation - truth be told, actual game systems are really bad when compared to emulators, which in turn replaces the hardware, cheating devices and video capture devices. Technically speaking, I like platforms like Flash and VMWare because those are virtual and can be easily manipulated.
I buy actual consoles and games because I support them. Technically speaking, however, they are far inferior to, say, my PC.

3 - Ura Zelda? I say yes. It's about time that this is shown to the rest of the world.
Now that you're quoting about F-Zero, I'd like to see the expansion kit released to 3DS. With the Rainbow Road remix, of course.

[mrmolecule]

1- No, it wouldn't play NES/SNES/64/VB out of the box (we're not talking the Action Gamemaster here), we're talking about something like the MasterGear for the Game Gear.

2 - I don't pirate either, but I do support emulation and old ROMs. I say you should be able to run current ROMs on an emulator given you have the original (for screenshot purposes)

3- They have a remix of Rainbow Road for F-Zero X Expansion Kit? Awesome.

[Fryguy64]

1. The 3DS is likely to have an online 3DSWare and Virtual Console of its own. I seriously doubt it will be backwards compatible for anything but DS games. And how exactly do you think you could hook up a NES cartridge adaptor to the DS? The NES cartridges are bigger than the system!

2. The always-on feature is no more invasive than WiiConnect 24.

I can understand why people get upset about how hardware manufacturers are preventing amateur developers from creating homebrew software, as there's a long legacy of homebrew developers turning into full-fledged developers after homebrew success. Hackers can take apart a game that has become staid and change it, or use the code to rip raw data from the game, such as music or graphics (which, until game developers realise there is a market for, I say is fair game).

But a great deal of "homebrew" software is emulation. I have no doubt that the developer just wants to know if they can make it work, and it does, and they share it with others as it's pretty cool.

But software piracy is more than one guy developing an emulator. It's also about the hundreds of freeloading assholes who don't want to pay for games, who will gladly download a full rip of a new game and run it on homebrew software so they don't have to pay a penny.

Nintendo will never support that.

3. There were 2 Zelda games in development... Ura-Zelda and Zelda Gaiden. One was essentially the Master Quest (yes, I imagine there were a couple of small changes to the plans, but that happens to all games during development), and the other turned into Majora's Mask.

I wouldn't be surprised if the elements that didn't make it into Master Quest during development made it into Majora's Mask. So we've probably played it already.

[Johans Nidorino]

Aug 3, 2010 9:04:05 GMT -5 Fryguy64 said:

1. The 3DS is likely to have an online 3DSWare and Virtual Console of its own.

As many people have expressed since the DSiWare was introduced, this needs to happen at least for classic portable systems... It would be cool to relive old Game Boy titles by legal means.

Hopefully it'd let people play in multiplayer with just one download of the game...

And for Game Boy or Game Boy Color titles originally compatible with Game Boy Printer, the system could store the output as image files on the SD card.

[mrmolecule]

I like Virtual Console, but it's no replacement for ROMs. It isn't necessarily that expensive, but I have two big problems with it: it doesn't have all the games I want, and it doesn't provide the original creators and programmers their due, which is what copyright is supposed to do. It also doesn't care whether you have the original cartridge or not. I shouldn't pay for extra copies of NES games.

[TV Eye]

Get a PSP. Mine plays NES, SNES, Genesis, Gameboy (Color and Advance) roms, and roms from tons of other cartridge based systems with 100% perfection (Except N64, but there are games that play well, like Super Mario 64 and Mario Kart). Not to mention all the PSOne games.

[mrmolecule]

TV Eye:
Actually, I heard that homebrew "piracy" was a major factor of why the PSP didn't sell well.

Of course, I believe that the reason why PSP didn't beat the DS was the same reason why Game Gear didn't beat Game Boy...despite being a technically superior system, Nintendo's was cheaper, better brand recognition, and more popular games.

[Flip]

Wii homebrew is easy and horribly addicting. Let's just say between my external hard drive of every rom ever, all my music, crappy movies, and the fact I bothered to get Netflix, my Wii doesn't play many Wii games anymore

[TV Eye]

Aug 3, 2010 13:52:54 GMT -5 mrmolecule said:

TV Eye:
Actually, I heard that homebrew "piracy" was a major factor of why the PSP didn't sell well.

Of course, I believe that the reason why PSP didn't beat the DS was the same reason why Game Gear didn't beat Game Boy...despite being a technically superior system, Nintendo's was cheaper, better brand recognition, and more popular games.

Actually, the PSP sells more than the Wii in Japan...

[Fryguy64]

Aug 3, 2010 11:59:05 GMT -5 mrmolecule said:

it doesn't have all the games I want, and it doesn't provide the original creators and programmers their due, which is what copyright is supposed to do.

VC doesn't have every game ever, no, but what on Earth is the second bit about? It almost sounds like you're suggesting that by spending money on the game through an official distribution channel, you are somehow doing the creators of the game a disservice.

You know, by not giving money to the company that pays them you are a fucking hero.

Aug 3, 2010 11:59:05 GMT -5 mrmolecule said:

It also doesn't care whether you have the original cartridge or not. I shouldn't pay for extra copies of NES games.

It goes like this:

Q. If you already own copies of the game, who would go out and buy another identical copy of the same game?

A1. People who don't want the inconvenience of setting up multiple older systems to a single TV, or who want to experience the game on a different format (e.g. handheld, HDTV).

A2. Retards with more money than sense.

Which one are you?

[kirbychu]

Aug 3, 2010 11:59:05 GMT -5 mrmolecule said:

I like Virtual Console, but it's no replacement for ROMs. It isn't necessarily that expensive, but I have two big problems with it: it doesn't have all the games I want, and it doesn't provide the original creators and programmers their due, which is what copyright is supposed to do.

And ROMs do?

[Da Robot]

Aug 3, 2010 13:52:54 GMT -5 mrmolecule said:

TV Eye:
Actually, I heard that homebrew "piracy" was a major factor of why the PSP didn't sell well.

Of course, I believe that the reason why PSP didn't beat the DS was the same reason why Game Gear didn't beat Game Boy...despite being a technically superior system, Nintendo's was cheaper, better brand recognition, and more popular games.

Isn't it a fact that every hardware generation the less techical system always sells the most units? (Eg, NES, SNES, PS1, PS2, Wii and GB, GBA and NDS).

Aug 3, 2010 11:59:05 GMT -5 mrmolecule said:

I like Virtual Console, but it's no replacement for ROMs. It isn't necessarily that expensive, but I have two big problems with it: it doesn't have all the games I want, and it doesn't provide the original creators and programmers their due, which is what copyright is supposed to do. It also doesn't care whether you have the original cartridge or not. I shouldn't pay for extra copies of NES games.

You know Sin & Punishement 2 got made because of the high sales of VC version of the game in the west right?



EDIT: Some interesting rumor about unannounced 3DS features from GoNintendo.

"I was at the Dragon Quest IX GameStop Tag Mode event today and the local Nintendo rep showed up to give out some goodies and help assist players in downloading their event map. I got to talking with the guy and I was able to grill him on a lot of things. The most interesting bit of info he shared with me was that Nintendo already has their Fall Conference lined up. The date and location are already set, they have just yet to formally make an announcement. He also teased me by saying there is still a lot of things the general public doesnt know about the 3DS. So more surprises coming soon in that regard."

[mrmolecule]

TV Eye: I was talking about what Sony said.
@fryguy64: 1. It's mostly about the rules of copyright and what it's supposed to be. Should corporations be able to make infinite money on something they developed years ago? No. Copyright was developed so people would be able to make money for a time. Originally it was 14 years and up to 28. Now corporations have 70+. Mario and Zelda are good examples of games where the original creator is still around. I support Miyamoto and try to buy the games he makes legitimately. But I also want to transfer the games around to multiple systems. Currently, I can buy the VC copy of A Link to the Past, but I want a single copy that I could move around to the Wii and the computer. But there's no way to legally do that. 2. I rip my own DVDs to my own computer to use them on other media. What I can't do is rip ROMs from the Wii to the computer, so I download extra copies.

[Fryguy64]

Aug 4, 2010 9:41:25 GMT -5 mrmolecule said:

@fryguy64: 1. It's mostly about the rules of copyright and what it's supposed to be. Should corporations be able to make infinite money on something they developed years ago? No.

Err... Actually the answer is "yes", so long as it's within the confines of both the law and commerce regulation. There's no law or regulation against having stupid, lazy customers who will buy your product time and again for no reason.

Aug 4, 2010 9:41:25 GMT -5 mrmolecule said:

Copyright was developed so people would be able to make money for a time. Originally it was 14 years and up to 28. Now corporations have 70+.

Also wrong. Copyright was developed so the creator of the work has the exclusive ownership of their work for a fixed period. The 70 years was created in the 1970's, and even the oldest computer programmes are a long way off expiring.

That means that when you buy a book, you own that copy of the book, not the book's content. You have no rights to copy that book onto, say, a computer, and distribute it, as the copyright owner has the exclusive rights of distribution.

Aug 4, 2010 9:41:25 GMT -5 mrmolecule said:

I support Miyamoto and try to buy the games he makes legitimately. But I also want to transfer the games around to multiple systems. Currently, I can buy the VC copy of A Link to the Past, but I want a single copy that I could move around to the Wii and the computer. But there's no way to legally do that.

No there isn't, yes that would be convenient, but the copyright holder has exclusive rights to distribute that game, and so unless they see a benefit in it for them, it ain't happening.

Oh, and the copyright holder isn't Miyamoto. It's Nintendo. If it WAS Miyamoto, you'd be waiting even longer (life + 70 years).

Aug 4, 2010 9:41:25 GMT -5 mrmolecule said:

2. I rip my own DVDs to my own computer to use them on other media. What I can't do is rip ROMs from the Wii to the computer, so I download extra copies.

So, what you're saying is that because making pirate copies of DVDs is a simple process, and making pirate copies of games is harder, you'll just find another way to pirate them.

I am not some mook who has never made a copy of anything, or who doesn't play copyrighted ROMs... but I have never tried to justify it with these ridiculous arguments.