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Post by parrothead on Feb 16, 2011 22:57:02 GMT -5
For some reason, I've been hearing a lot of people loving Capcom's SFII, while calling other fighting games released later "rip-offs", which makes me think they'll turn their backs against them and go play SFII several more times while thinking like "SFII is and will always be the best fighting game on Earth". However, I heard some in Japan call them "tributes" instead of "rip-offs". Even several people consider things that help some post-SFII fighting games differentiate from SFII aren't enough to be appreciated over SFII. Some believe it's ludicrous to stick with the first one over a similar, but superior one released later. If many gamers don't want others to take ideas from SFII, then how come many don't care about SFII borrowing/stealing ideas from pre-SFII fighting games, as well as others like animes and real people? This list shows the first kinds of fighting games in history, some very interesting, some not-so interesting. Characters in post-SFII fighting games not as original as SFII's roster? Well how do you explain all these and its next pages? |
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Post by The Qu on Feb 17, 2011 0:39:27 GMT -5
Most of the Street Fighter II characters are homages to manga and real life martial artists, so it's dumb to think of any post SFII characters as ripoffs anyways.
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Post by Manspeed on Feb 17, 2011 23:14:23 GMT -5
Parrot, again: Why are you talking about originality like it's a matter of fact and not opinion?
What IS fact is that NOTHING is original. EVERYTHING has to borrow from something else, so naturally Street Fighter II itself either borrows from previous sources, copies previous sources or pays tribute to previous sources, just like any other creative work.
Why is SFII's "originality" even an issue anyway? Don't we have better things to talk about, like how much it sucks that Nintendo vs. Capcom isn't reality yet?
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Post by parrothead on Feb 20, 2011 21:05:25 GMT -5
Most of the Street Fighter II characters are homages to manga and real life martial artists, so it's dumb to think of any post SFII characters as ripoffs anyways. How can you tell if it's a homage, parody, rip-off or even a coincidence? I usually see people call them rip-offs when they hate them, while they don't say "rip-offs" at games they like. If someone dislikes SFII, their comments about it would be like "Boy Capcom sure was lazy at creating their SF characters." Nester considers Data East's library of games to be imitations while not noticing or not even appreciating their unique parts. For one example, Dunk Dream/Street Slam/Street Hoops does have some similarities to Midway's NBA Jam, but not exactly. Here are some differences: * NBA Jam has 2 players on both teams, while Dunk Dream has 3 on each team. * NBA Jam's BGM is mostly instrumental, while Dunk Dream's is mostly vocal. * NBA Jam has real-life players, but is a lot harder to re-release due to licensing issues, so creating sequels is what Midway (and now, EA) decided to do. Dunk Dream uses generic teams to make it easier for itself to be re-released. * NBA Jam uses digitized sprites, while Dunk Dream uses hand-drawn sprites. * Performing special slam dunks in both games don't exactly play the same way. Dunk Dream has a bar on the bottom of the screen for special slam dunks, while NBA Jam doesn't. For Fighter's History, when most people see that, and if they hear about Capcom suing Data East, they would jump in the bandwagon with Capcom. However, some people like the owner of Jap-Sai, believe Fighter's History was developed well enough to succeed in the market and receive two sequels: Fighter's History Dynamite and Fighter's History: Mizoguchi Kiki Ippatsu!!, as well as two other arcade fighting games also by Data East: Avengers in Galactic Storm and Outlaws of the Lost Dynasty, while also have some unique features used in later fighting games. Even SNKP appreciated the FH series enough to add Mizoguchi to on of their KOF games to promote a Japan-only cell phone cross-over titled "Garou Densetsu vs Fighter's History Dynamite". I created this same topic in some other forums and some people said the same things you said Qu. However, one considers some games to be more of a parody than a rip-off, like Data East Pinball's Tattoo Assassins. Some said that some comparisons don't hold much weight, like "All games are rip off's of Pong. Because they use pixels to display graphics and code to make things happen." One person posted a good comment: I'm pretty sure that IF companies didn't develop their own fighting games after the success of SFII, they wouldn't earn as much money as they did when they developed some fighting games. One person said when he went to a local arcade, he saw a long line of people standing in front of SFII playing it, while he saw Data East's unique shoot em' up Boogie Wings, having nearly no one playing it. Parrot, again: Why are you talking about originality like it's a matter of fact and not opinion? What IS fact is that NOTHING is original. EVERYTHING has to borrow from something else, so naturally Street Fighter II itself either borrows from previous sources, copies previous sources or pays tribute to previous sources, just like any other creative work. Why is SFII's "originality" even an issue anyway? Don't we have better things to talk about, like how much it sucks that Nintendo vs. Capcom isn't reality yet? I created this topic after I saw the SF series being voted #1 on several people's "Top Ten Best Fighting Games/Franchises of All Time" lists, while seeing comments below videos of post-SF fighting games that either say "SFII rip-off" or "It looks like SFII", which was annoying enough for me to start this topic. NOTHING? NOTHING is original? Come on! Every game has their ups and downs. For the Nintendo X Capcom topic, read some of Fryguy64's comments. I also have nothing else to say other than hoping to see a balanced number of well-known and lesser-known games represented in it. And DINOSAUR/Man-frog, why do I almost only see you whenever I look like I'm not doing well in this forum? Don't you ever stop complaining about them? |
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Post by Manspeed on Feb 21, 2011 10:32:48 GMT -5
Jesus Christ, parrot are you THAT terrible at seeing the blatantly obvious? Street Fighter II LAUNCHED the fighting game genre into maintstream popularity! Most of not all of the fighting games before it were rudimentary, and most if not all of the fighting games after it borrowed from it to some degree. This isn't rocket science! Why does it bother you when the reason is THIS justified!?
Do you even have any idea what I MEANT?
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Post by The Qu on Feb 21, 2011 14:07:45 GMT -5
Hell, I'm pretty sure you could do a Seven Basic Plots for videogames. Every genre that isn't Katamari Damacy can be traced back to a single game somewhere along the line, with each game after it building on it, whether they know it or not. Shooters and DOOM are a good example. DOOM wasn't the first, not by a longshot- it is predated by a labyrinth game by a decade- but it is the most well known, and the one everyone copied for ages. Then Halo came about, and now everyone tries to be it.
Be innovative in games, and you'll spark a revolution... of follow the leader.
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Post by Fryguy64 on Feb 22, 2011 19:00:20 GMT -5
I really don't know what to make of this, so I'm just going to say this...
Parrothead, when you post something like this, it flies in the face of the common viewpoint, which in this case is that SFII refined the fighting genre and made it a success for a wide audience, something previous fighting games had not successfully managed.
When you do that, you inflame "popular opinion" and cause people to lash out at you.
What I recommend is that rather than posting these controversial perspectives here, on the NinDB forums, as standalone topics, you concentrate on focusing the purpose of your "rebuttal" to places where it is relevant.
For example, your first post sounds like a response to something. Was it on this forum? Was it on another forum? Why not post in response to that, rather than start a topic that will inflame people who said nothing related to that?
I would also suggests focusing your point. You can kinda go all over the place when making a point and so your original point is lost.
I like you, Parrothead, and I like what you bring to NinDB and the genuine discussions you have launched. But I'm increasingly starting to think your posts are angry rants at other forums posted here in case anyone wants in on it. And I don't particularly want to foster that kind of discussion.
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Post by parrothead on Mar 4, 2011 19:48:28 GMT -5
Well, Fryguy64, the point of creating this topic in this and a few other forums has a similar effect to polls. The reason is to give me ideas on what exactly was and is going on in the fighting game craze. Why? Because I am entering the fighting game community. Here are two threads I created in other forums: MUGEN Fighters GuildMUGEN InfantryI am pretty sure that anyone who calls them "homages" or "tributes" most likely appreciate them, and anyone who doesn't appreciate them much calls them "clones" or "rip-offs" (mostly of the founder, but some are actually modeled after other post-SFII fighting games). Recently, I noticed that anyone who started with and played a lot of the SF series most likely set its statistics and roster to default and call it the most balanced, mostly one of the SFII revisions. If they play another fighting game outside of the SF series, their opinions would be like "It's different, now it sucks." My sister told me that "Opinions are like @$$holes." Seriously, I apologize for my social skills problems. I am an Aspie. Satoshi Tajiri probably would have spoken the same way if he was a NinDB member, because he is also an Aspie that's interested in video games. And by the way, it's March 2011, and it's been 20 years since Capcom brought SFII to the arcades. |
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Post by The Qu on Mar 4, 2011 21:37:26 GMT -5
No offense meant, but I would think most of us figured you were an Aspie a long time ago. I mean, it's pretty obvious, so I'd hope folks gave you some leeway.
Also, dang. 20 years. That means Street Fighter 2 is a few months older than me...
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Post by TV Eye on Mar 5, 2011 1:05:51 GMT -5
Qu! That means we're the same age! Let's hang out some time.
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Post by Fryguy64 on Mar 8, 2011 5:42:24 GMT -5
Seriously, I apologize for my social skills problems. I am an Aspie. Satoshi Tajiri probably would have spoken the same way if he was a NinDB member, because he is also an Aspie that's interested in video games. Well, I knew this also, and it's one of the reasons I try to make my criticisms constructive, while simultaneously trying to quell the tempers of those who seem to lash out at you for some reason. With a history of mild aspergers in my family, I get protective when others treat you like an idiot child or shun you for saying odd things. And you do say odd things, and that's never likely to change. All I can do is explain to you, hopefully in constructive terms, why others are getting mad. Don't think of it like learning a social skill, think of it like learning a conflict avoidance skill. Don't change, because I value your input and find your excursions interesting. But maybe take away some lessons in conflict avoidance while still being interesting, and I will do what I can to stop those who create that conflict in the first place. |
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