VC Challenge!

[Fryguy64]

Hello lovelies! It's me again. Remember me?

Over the past few months, I've been secretly working on a video series called "VC Challenge". The basic idea is that NES Remix 1+2 were designed to encourage people to download and play Virtual Console games - but once you do, most of them are so weird and unclear about what you should be doing, or even when a game is 'beaten', that players discovering games this way might need a few more challenges to help them through the game.

Each video starts by explaining the basics through simple challenges, then slowly ramps up the difficulty with bonus scores, secrets and expert techniques, until eventually the game can be considered "complete" (even if it keeps going indefinitely).

So VC Challenge is basically a combination of tutorial and achievements list. I've been beavering away on this for a while now, researching, recording game footage and coming up with the look of the thing. The first season is based on the NES Remix 1 line-up, and it's now progressing to the point where I figure I could use some help coming up with some more challenges.

One or two games are causing problems due to their ridiculous simplicity (Baseball and Urban Champion in particular) and then games like The Legend of Zelda (and almost anything in NES Remix 2) are more structured and more difficult to come up with unique challenges for that aren't just "beat level 1", "beat level 2", etc.

I don't want to unduly limit any idea, but I have a few guidelines that I've been following:
1. No techniques that require the skills of a speedrunner or a master player who has been playing the game for 30 years. The challenges should be possible by a player of standard skill who has the benefit of Restore Points.
2. No mindlessly repetitive achievements that don't result in an in-game reward (e.g. "Max out levels/money/points").
3. The use of Restore Points is encouraged for challenges that rely on some luck (e.g. "Knock Out Glass Joe in One Punch")

That's it really. I'll give you an example:

Donkey Kong (NES)
Clear Stage 3
Hold 3 Extra Lives
Take the Shortcut in Stage 2
Clear Stage 3 of Loop 3
Clear Stage 3 of Loop 5
Score 100,000 Points
Clear Stage 3 of Loop 9
Score 200,000 Points

Instructions on how to carry out each challenge will be explained in full, and I have a bunch of scripts in progress already.

I have loads of ideas myself, but if you're able to help come up with challenges for any of the following games, it will be hugely appreciated. Particularly Zelda.

Donkey Kong (NES)
Donkey Kong Jr. (NES)
Mario Bros. (NES)
Baseball (NES)
Tennis (NES)
Pinball (NES)
Golf (NES)
Donkey Kong 3 (NES)
Urban Champion (NES)
Clu Clu Land (NES)
Excitebike (NES)
Balloon Fight (NES)
Ice Climber (NES)
Wrecking Crew (NES)
Super Mario Bros. (NES)
The Legend of Zelda (NES)

Cheers everyone!

[nocturnal YL]

Hi, and welcome back to your own forum!

Isn't beating Donkey Kong 9 times a bit repetitive?

NES games generally don't interest me, and the more advanced ones (the ones that did interest me) like Zelda II are in NES Remix 2, so I can't really suggest anything. I'd say you can have easier versions of what the TASes and other superplays have done, like clearing certain SMB1 4-2 without getting any points and reaching Ganon without a sword (ugh, actually no, this one has been overdone). Or beat Urban Champion levels within a limited number of D-pad presses. Or reach the condor on certain Ice Climber mountains without getting any vegetables (this seems to be easy even on Mountan 32).

Excitebike would be ripe for challenges if you allow for custom parts. Create crazy stages (since parts are letter-coded, you can just ask your viewers to recreate those themselves), and assign tasks like navigating steep ramps without flipping over. Admittedly, this would be more fun with the WiiWare version.

[Fryguy64]

Hi, and welcome back to your own forum!

I think we can all agree that you've all made this forum your own by now... Just by keeping it alive after all these years (despite my terrible neglect).

Isn't beating Donkey Kong 9 times a bit repetitive?

It's a little bit repetitive, but you can also do it in about 20 minutes. The whole point of Donkey Kong is to see "How High Can You Get?" Once you know how to get through the Jacks on Stage 2 Loop 3, you can pretty much just beat it endlessly (some people have already played up to the Kill Screen on Loop 133 on the VC version!)

Saying "Play to Loop Z" or "Play to the 133rd Loop Kill Screen" would be too repetitive - hours of the same thing over and over. Master players can test themselves to do this.

NES games generally don't interest me, and the more advanced ones (the ones that did interest me) like Zelda II are in NES Remix 2, so I can't really suggest anything.

Well, I'll be getting to them soon enough, so feel free to come up with NES Remix 2 ideas as well. Who knows, maybe coming up with ideas for more structured titles will help with ideas for these earlier games too. I've come up with a handful (Zelda II in particular is ripe with challenges, and I've been playing a lot of Punch-Out too, and it's been awesome discovering all the tricks there).

I'd say you can have easier versions of what the TASes and other superplays have done, like clearing certain SMB1 4-2 without getting any points and reaching Ganon without a sword (ugh, actually no, this one has been overdone). Or beat Urban Champion levels within a limited number of D-pad presses. Or reach the condor on certain Ice Climber mountains without getting any vegetables (this seems to be easy even on Mountan 32).

One of the things I've tried to do (though it's not always possible) is to make it so you can prove you've beaten a challenge with a Miiverse screenshot. So things like the Ice Climber challenge would work as the score screen would display 0 Veggies and a cheering Popo (Condor), and you could even do the Super Mario Bros. challenge there if you took a screenshot at the start and end of the stage.

I consider the no-sword challenge to be master-level material, and so won't include it (also, yes, it's overdone). The Urban Champion one is a "personal challenge" that wouldn't really work given the format. I'm not sure WHAT would work given the format of Urban Champion

Excitebike would be ripe for challenges if you allow for custom parts. Create crazy stages (since parts are letter-coded, you can just ask your viewers to recreate those themselves), and assign tasks like navigating steep ramps without flipping over. Admittedly, this would be more fun with the WiiWare version.

I haven't included Edit modes or any 2-Player modes for the simple reason that I don't have time or another human to come up with those challenges. Custom levels would be cool, but most people don't even bother playing the game itself.

[Nester the Lark]

Jul 24, 2014 3:31:08 GMT -5 Fryguy64 said:

I think we can all agree that you've all made this forum your own by now... Just by keeping it alive after all these years (despite my terrible neglect).

We still miss you, Fry!

[Shadrio]

Oh, it's Fryguy, nice to see you back after that long hiatus. Sadly, I can't say I'd be able to help out with this, as the NES was way before my time. What I can add is a little idea for a few of the NES games I did enjoy, Super Mario Bros and The Legend of Zelda.

For Mario, something along the lines of not using powerups, like never getting the Fire Flower or not using the Fire Flower against Bowser at all or maybe achieving the infinite 1-Up glitch. As for Zelda, never get the stronger swords or armor rings. Sadly, I can't add much more, since I haven't played neither NES Remix 1 nor 2.

[8bitretroshit]

Jul 23, 2014 10:49:40 GMT -5 Fryguy64 said:

(Urban Champion in particular)

Oooh I got one! Sidestep a falling pot at the last moment (the 'leanback' backwards step's pretty slow, but I don't remember if it's slow enough for the pot to 'hit' your foot during the animation).

Or maybe hit your opponent 4 times in quick succesion. Pretty easy to pull off on the first wave of AI.

..Did they already do that in NES Remix? I haven't unlocked Urban Champion yet 

[Fryguy64]

Urban Champion is one of the NES Remix games that doesn't have a full set of challenges. It's basically "light punch three times", "heavy punch three times" and "knock the fighter into the manhole". There's no further challenges. Not even remixes!

However, 3D Classics Urban Champion also gives you titles for defeating a certain number of opponents. Apparently you have to max it out at 99 Wins to be crowned the "Urban Champion" (although I'm unclear if this is opponent defeats or rounds cleared - as each fight can take 3-5 Rounds).

The only real reward are the icons that change for every 5 fighters you beat. It goes Boxing Glove (x5), Flags (x5), Trophy (x5), Blue Crown (x5)... After that I think it's an ambulance, but I've rarely made it higher than that, and apparently nobody on YouTube has either! That's already over 50 Rounds of the same thing over and over.

[Leon]

I actually cleared the 3DS remake of UC, but I don't remember what the icon was for doing it. I think it was a Gold Crown.

[Fryguy64]

There is a gold crown icon in the spritesheet for the game. I'm going to need to play a lot of Urban Champion to find out, aren't I

Trying to find videos of UC has kinda underlined why I want to make this series. YouTube is filled with "first impressions" (usually rants) about the game. Then other games have a mix of first impressions or "expert plays" (usually tool assisted). There's rarely anything to encourage other players to try the games themselves, explaining what to do, how to get better and how to know if you're actually beating it.

For those of you who have said that these old NES games aren't usually your cup of tea, you're the people I am targeting. People (like myself) who might try an old game for 10 minutes and then quit when it doesn't live up to the modern game design standards you're accustomed to.

On top of coming up with ideas for individual challenges, I'd also like any advice or ideas anyone has for the series in general. It's obviously piggy-backing on the idea of Xbox Achievements or PS Trophies, but I don't own either of those consoles and have no control over the game itself via the video.

I also intend to have them lined up, ready to be released before I start releasing them. It's getting closer - so long as real life doesn't get in the way too much.

[Leon]

One challenge for Urban Champion should be "Get your opponent arrested!", that's always fun to do.

[Fryguy64]

So I sat down to play Urban Champion. I didn't realise there's no way to replenish your lives! Madness!

And I'm only on fight 23 or so and I'm already having to use a bug to win some fights. But that may have been due to tiredness.

Getting the other guy arrested is certainly a good one.

I also played a load of Pinball. It may be basic, but I love it. Seems to stop giving things out at 150,000 Points, but I somehow stopped at exactly 222,220 Points. Nice.