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Post by Hiker of Games on Jun 4, 2005 9:52:12 GMT -5
Or rather, the one Fryguy posted on the main site: www.petitiononline.com/ninwdyw/petition.htmlI don't find that Nintendo games have been bad. There's been a few stinkers, but I feel that Wind Waker and Super Mario Sunshine were some of the greatest games I played. Playing Mario 64 without FLUDD makes me sad. I personally feel this is one of Nintendo's strongest generations game-wise. I've loved the games that has come out. I'd say it easily trumps the 64 in the quality of games. It may not quite topple the SNES or NES, sure. But consider that NES/SNES games are a ton of a lot easier to make. And a lot easier to make 'longer'. I don't think Nintendo has short-changed us in the quality of games, we just expect too much. You're never going to get your 8 worlds with four levels each and five bonus worlds afterwards like you did in the NES days. It's not technologically easy to do that. |
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Post by Nester the Lark on Jun 4, 2005 11:11:35 GMT -5
I hate to say it, but I also disagree with the above petition. I'm one of those people that tends to think of the N64 as the weak link, and for me, the 'Cube was a minor comeback. I think Nintendo's made some bold and creative decisions with its classic franchises that have really paid off. Cel-shaded Zelda? First-person Metroid? Star Fox Adventures? These are some of my very favorite 'Cube games.
Heck, if I thought Nintendo was producing games of weak quality, I wouldn't be calling myself a fan. If truth be told, I lost interest after the N64. It was the Gamecube that brought me back.
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Post by Smashchu on Jun 4, 2005 13:54:19 GMT -5
accually I loved the games on Gamecube, some of which were better then the N64 ones. And remember Nintendo is only so big and they do ALOT for what they do.
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Post by Fryguy64 on Jun 4, 2005 14:23:59 GMT -5
I'm of mixed opinion. On the one hand I outwardly disagree that Super Mario Sunshine, Wind Waker, StarFox Assault, and others are somehow lacking compared to their N64 counterparts. These are excellent titles, and should be treated as such. On the other hand I also feel a little shortchanged... the SNES and N64 were much more productive in terms of large gaming adventures rather than the pick-up-and-play experiences of recent years. I love to play a good game, no matter how short or long it is, but if that one game can keep me hooked for a long time then it's a lot more satisfying than completing a shorter game and only going back to try and beat my score. This probably boils down to my gradual feelings of loss towards Rare. Not necessarily Rare as they are now - a shell of their former glories - but Rare when they were pumping out some of the best games available on the market... games that had a vision and scope of their own. Nintendo employs some of the most talented videogame designers in the world, and I'm afraid they've been allowed to tinker with their new toys for too long and have forgotten about the wider gaming market who loves action adventure titles. This is one reason I believe many N64 and Dreamcast owners migrated to X-Box instead of Gamecube. Quality rather than quantity? Why not both? Oh, and Mario Tennis was much better on the N64 as well  |
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Post by Goomba Joe on Jun 4, 2005 14:41:30 GMT -5
I agree, Sunshine and Wind Waker were excellent. This is truly a prosperous time for Nintendo. I also really miss Rare. They're games were the best ever....  |
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icymatt
Pikpik Carrot
Biggus Squidus
Posts: 148
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Post by icymatt on Jun 4, 2005 14:44:25 GMT -5
Unfortunately, Nintendo is out on their own with the GC. If they had hooked the 3rd parties earlier, Quantity wouldn't be an issue.
However, Nintendo hasn't gone down in quality. Maybe Mario Sunshine isn't as good as Mario 64(and I doubt anything ever will), but it's the closest we've ever got. The new Mario Golf isn't as good as the N64 one (lack of extras), but then again the GBC & GBA ones are much better than both of them. And Paper Mario:TTYD is pretty much on par with the first Paper Mario.
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Post by Hiker of Games on Jun 4, 2005 14:55:16 GMT -5
Well, I've always been of the opinion that Mario 64 sucked, but then, I got to play OoT and a bunch of other games before Mario 64, so I didn't get the whole 'omg 3D' thing going on. I felt Super Mario Sunshine was infinitely better.
I miss the DKC titles, but Rare put nothing on the 64 that I missed. At all. I heard they did a few good FPS games, which is good I guess, but no my cup of tea. The 64 itself, how does it compare to the Cube? We had Donkey Kong, Mario, Zelda, Star Fox, F-Zero, and Smash Bros. Gamecube got all of that, plus two Metroid games, two Pikmin games, and so forth. And while I have no opinion on Star Fox, I feel that the new incarnations of each series surpassed the previous ones easily.
The quality of Nintendo's first and second party games has nothing to do with the quantity. Nintendo has put out as much as they can and I would venture to say more than what they had for the 64. They're still doing lousy with 3rd parties, which is a whole different topic of discussion.
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Post by Fryguy64 on Jun 4, 2005 18:41:48 GMT -5
Avoiding the topic of third parties for a moment...
Rare produced Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Donkey Kong 64, Diddy Kong Racing, Blast Corps., Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Jet Force Gemini... so if FPSs aren't your thing then there's still 3D platformers, action/adventure, racing and a sort of puzzley-explodey-action thing (Blast Corps. never was that easy to categorise)... something for everyone!
You say Nintendo has put out as much as they can, but so much of their development is outsourced now that it's not entirely true. In fact, Namco has developed almost as many Nintendo-published games as EAD!
While I think it's great that outsourcing has brought so many excellent titles to Gamecube, I'm still surprised how only EAD really has any involvement in console game development
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Post by Andronicus on Jun 4, 2005 19:56:21 GMT -5
I don't agree with the petition either.
Nintendo games have been good.
I absolutely loved Wind Waker, Super Mario Sunshine, and both Pikmin games.
We have an amazing looking Zelda game coming.
Super Smash Bros. Melee was downright awesome.
And so on...
I've said it before, but I feel that a certain element of the Nintendo fan-base (let's call them "fan-boys", even though I hate that term) are actually the worst thing to ever happen to Nintendo.
All they do is complain, and talk about how bad the company is, and how imminent its demise is.
This petition seems to stem from that, and it reflects terribly on this group that I refer to.
There is plenty of good stuff on Nintendo.
The GCN surpassed the N64 in many respects.
Sure the SNES was the peak of all peaks (gotta love the SNES), but lately things have picked up.
That is what I think anyway.
End.
;D
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Post by Hiker of Games on Jun 4, 2005 22:19:50 GMT -5
Andronicus felt to strongly about it, he had to say it twice. Good man. I played the Rare N64 games, by the way. You don't have to list them for me, Fries. |
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Post by Andronicus on Jun 4, 2005 23:03:28 GMT -5
*Chuckle* ;D Apologies for that Masamune - I've since fixed that - whenever I put a smiley face down, the boards copy and paste my entire post before the smiley directly after it... Strange it is...  |
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on Jun 5, 2005 1:54:36 GMT -5
Every console was high quality, so even if the GCN is worse than the others that doesn't mean its "bad". Hell, worse than the others doesn't even necessarily mean its "average" either.
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Post by Fryguy64 on Jun 6, 2005 1:57:16 GMT -5
Sorry Masa, but you seemed to suggest that FPSs weren't your thing, as if that's all Rare did with themselves. Not mine either (hardly played Perfect Dark), but some of the others are gaming gems. There are two kinds of fanboys... 1. 9-Volt: collector, loves the games, might or might not know much about the company's business, but trusts they'll do the right thing. 2. Kid E. (work in progress comic strip character) buys the games, goes online and reads a bunch of opinions before slagging them off. Probably uses a cheat card. Knows nothing about the company's business, but assume Nintendo are doing something wrong or stupid. May also believe they own Nintendo. Guess which one I hope I am |
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Post by Andronicus on Jun 6, 2005 2:36:46 GMT -5
Yeah, that Kid E. type is the type that I referred to earlier as one of the worst things to ever happen to Nintendo. I'd rather be classified as neither. I like all video games, but I prefer Nintendo as I was brought up on a Nintendo (and a bit of Sega) diet. I don't pretend to fully understand the business model, but I have read quite a lot on Nintendo as a company, and throughout my university studies have come across case studies that have led me to largely understand large aspects of their business model. It makes it all the more interesting for me. By the way, I'm looking forward to seeing the first Kid E. comic strip Fryguy... ;D EDIT: just cleaned up your smiley-double-post problem for you (Fryguy64) |
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on Jun 6, 2005 4:32:18 GMT -5
Something I want to bring up, and here is sort of suited...
Miyamoto has said "games are too long" and that people "don't have time to sit down and put alot of time into games like Halo and Grand Theft Auto". The gist of the article, it seems, to me at least, is that Nintendo are plannig to move from big, epic games to pick-up-and-play games. While, sure, I love games like SSBM that I can pick up and play for like, 5 minutes, I also love (particularly in the holidays) sitting down in front of the TV playing and genreally not moving from the whole day because I'm so engrossed by whats on the screen.
It doesn't mean we wont see long games (I doubt Retro is gonna ditch the Metroid Prime series in favour of Metroid Party, for example), but are we not going to see any long games from Nintendo themselves? I know personally when faced with the decision of adding either SM64DS or YT&G to my DS collection to sit alongside WWT, I went with SM64DS purely because I wanted something long. Problem is, it looks like we may no longer be able to have that choice.
Thoughts?
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