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Post by Fryguy64 on Oct 24, 2007 13:37:45 GMT -5
So, Super Paper Mario has been out for ages in the USA, and for a while in Europe now as well. I have been playing, and would like to finally make a statement on what I think of this game.
Super Paper Mario is a really bad game.
It has funny moments, and it has good moments. But at no point does Super Paper Mario feel like a well-considered, well-tested game. Here are the bits that frustrate me.
1. The 2D/3D dynamic is woefully underused. In fact, some might even say it was completely unnecessary. Only a couple of places early in the game does it feel like an interesting idea - but the rest of the time it simply seems to be a way to hide puzzles from view so you run around for ages with nothing but dead ends ahead.
2. The Pixls are mostly pointless, as are Peach and Bowser. You might pull them out for one obvious little puzzle from time to time, but nothing that couldn't be achieved with a context sensitive button press, or a bit of clever level design. Bowser's handy for taking out baddies at first, but by later he's too slow to avoid attacks! I end up sticking with Mario armed with the Hammer Pixl 80% of the time.
3. So about 4 times I've had to point the remote at the screen to solve a puzzle - it's the very definition of a tacked-on move. You might also use it to find out more about a particular enemy, but it's not necessary. Make something or other appear... why do you need to do this? You can battle through enemies, work your way through a maze, and boom... unless you remember that you can point at the screen? You'll run around for ages, lost.
4. What about the rest of the puzzles? Go here. No? Go all the way back and a character will have appeared to tell you what to do. Go forward, get a bit further... dead end! Head all the way back... character gives you new information.
The best of these puzzles? Entering "please" into a keypad half a dozen times, for no reason other than to extend the length of the level.
And there are a few pen and paper moments, where you have to write down codes. I thought these died out with the NES.
5. So you have 4HP, you have barely made it through, there's no items left in the level or in your inventory. You save the game and try to beat the next bit, but you die. So you regenerate back at the save point... with 4HP. The lovely "wi-weep wi-weep wi-weep" noise pounding in your mind. No items have regenerated - your only option is to head back to the hub world and stock up on the very poor supply of items they have to hand (and you are limited to how many items you can carry). Then get back to where you were. Pointless and frustrating.
In my opinion, the entire game could have been easily turned into a straight 2D platformer with no flipping between 2D/3D, no extra characters and no Pixls. The whole game feels like it threw everything in the pot with no idea of how to make it work.
I do not like this game. I feel like it's trying to waste my time rather than challenge me on any level, other than using tactics that should have died out with the 8-bit consoles. The puzzles do not tax the mind, they only hide away. Battles do not satisfy, aside from one or two boss battles. The whole game lacks the charisma and humour that made me enjoy the Paper Mario RPGs.
I will complete it. It's not the worst game I've ever played - not even the worst Mario game I've ever played (Yoshi's Universal Gravitation still holds that award!) But it's a massive, massive disappointment.
Now I know some of you both like and love this game, so I'd like to hear your comments on the above, as well as why you think I am wrong, or what you REALLY love about the game that turned you around.
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Post by Spud on Oct 24, 2007 14:18:17 GMT -5
I felt that flipping was pretty well used but I find it a hassle and flow breaker. World 2 holding left on the d-pad for 15 minutes isn't very fun. Overall I love the game none of it's shortcomings ruined it for me.
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Post by NinjaRygar on Oct 24, 2007 14:24:05 GMT -5
Heh....
You know I've had it since it came out in the U.S.... and I still havent' finished it! Because I got frustrated and annoyed and bored. I wanted.... to love it. I Wanted very badly to love this game. I dont' though. Something is missing.
It's not even that funny or amusing.... Thousand Year Door had the best plot and was a hilarious adventure. That was like.... as far as I'm concerned.... one of the BEST RPGS I've ever played. Super Paper Mario doesn't seem like a worthy sequel to it.
I heard the ending is amazing... which is why I keep saying I'll finish it some day. I got seriously annoyed around chapter 5.
The main world.... flipside.... and it's extremely boring counterpart flopside.... are not interesting to hang around.... it's nothing compared to Rougeport, whose locals I got very familiar with by the end of the game. I also don't really like the designs.... like... the block people and the background... and the music... it's an unappealing place.
Tipi is annoying as hell. I started reading her info on badguys and things... but she's boring! She just gives the facts. Goombella had personality. I actually tattled everything in that game because I wanted to.
Count Bleck and his crew were good though... and I believe they should have been in a better game.
It did have funny moments... the fanboy... I forget his name... the lizard dude... his whole chapter was a blast. And Bowser's personality was kept perfectly in tact throughout the parts I played, and he always makes me laugh in the Paper Mario games.
But then there were real downers.... like chapter 2-2... where you had to pay off Mimi's debt.... and the whole Space level... which WOULD HAVE been my favorite if it wasn't so dull and boring.
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Post by kirbychu on Oct 24, 2007 14:34:25 GMT -5
2. The Pixls are mostly pointless, as are Peach and Bowser. You might pull them out for one obvious little puzzle from time to time, but nothing that couldn't be achieved with a context sensitive button press, or a bit of clever level design. Bowser's handy for taking out baddies at first, but by later he's too slow to avoid attacks! I end up sticking with Mario armed with the Hammer Pixl 80% of the time. I find they're each great for different situations. Bowser's great when I want to take out an enemy quickly from a distance. Peachis great for learning a boss' attack patterns, since you can hold down and watch what the boss is doing without being hurt. I cycle through them all fairly regularly. The Pixls, for the most part, are pretty useless after completing the puzzle you needed them for originally. The first Pixl and the stomping one I still find useful, though. And throughout the game I noticed tiny doors in stages, and I now know what they're for... I intend to go back and check them at some point. 4. What about the rest of the puzzles? Go here. No? Go all the way back and a character will have appeared to tell you what to do. Go forward, get a bit further... dead end! Head all the way back... character gives you new information. The best of these puzzles? Entering "please" into a keypad half a dozen times, for no reason other than to extend the length of the level. Hmm? I don't remember that happening. Where was it? I agree with pretty much everything else you said. I don't think the game is bad, though. The story, bosses and regular platforming areas have outweighed that other stuff for me so far. I don't like it as much as TTYD, though. I just passed Chapter 6, which was awful to begin with. I absolutely loved everything after Bleck appeared, though. And the return to the world after that was the creepiest sequence in any Mario game ever. I'm loving chapter 7, too. I never thought I'd see Hell represented in a Mario game. Unfortunately I was killed by Bowser. Boo!  |
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Post by Fryguy64 on Oct 24, 2007 14:51:48 GMT -5
The "block puzzle" and the "please" entering were both in World 5-1. If you skipped them, you either used a guide (as the block bashing sequence remains the same regardless) or by some possibly world-altering chance managed to guess  I had forgotten about the damn debt paying thing! Probably because I did something else I haven't done since the NES days... I taped the control pad down and went and ate my dinner. When I got back I had earned enough points to pay for the codes. The geek lizard was pretty funny, as was the first boss, but both were disappointingly underused. Which was the problem with many of the good moments in this game - they are over very quickly, while the boring and forced moments take forever. |
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Flint
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Posts: 482
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Post by Flint on Oct 24, 2007 14:52:58 GMT -5
Probably the worst MarioRPG to date  (But that doesn't mean its a bad game) -The highly geometric characters weren`t really appealing, I understand its a style, but sometimes it went to far. -The Pixels where pretty useless, they should have been badges or something you could equip. And I do miss the RPG battle system (I loved it in the past games) Every character should be able to flip dimensions and they should include more puzzles that involved that (just give Mario a different ability like the hammer) even if chapter 2-2 and chapter 4 where lame, Chapter 3, 6,7,8 where a blast. Count Bleck and the gang where awesome nuff said and the game was way to easy for me. Good game overall I just feel that Intelligent Systems needed to tone down the style a little bit. |
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Post by kirbychu on Oct 24, 2007 14:56:35 GMT -5
The "block puzzle" and the "please" entering were both in World 5-1. If you skipped them, you either used a guide (as the block bashing sequence remains the same regardless) or by some possibly world-altering chance managed to guess Ah, yes. I got the first one by chance and looked up the second in an FAQ. I had no idea where to get the codes from. |
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Post by Fryguy64 on Oct 24, 2007 15:07:50 GMT -5
Ah, yes. I got the first one by chance and looked up the second in an FAQ. I had no idea where to get the codes from. Yep, you were supposed to backtrack both times. The second time you had to enter please 6 times, then write down the code. Urrgh. Worst level ever... and not just in SPM! |
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Post by TV Eye on Oct 24, 2007 15:27:25 GMT -5
Yeah, this is what I heard about the game. That's why I never bought it. My only Wii game is Zelda. I've yet to see any other Wii game I would spend $50 on.
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Post by kirbychu on Oct 24, 2007 15:50:22 GMT -5
Super Paper Mario is currently holding me over which, for the moment, is all I ask. I have nothing on my Wii that I really want to keep playing (probably partially down to the fact that I got the GC version of Twilight Princess instead), so I'm taking whatever I can get until Super Mario Galaxy is released. That should, with any luck, hold me over through the gap until Brawl finally gets released... and beyond!
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Post by Goomba Joe on Oct 24, 2007 16:52:03 GMT -5
In all honesty...I liked Super Paper Mario. Didn't hate, but certainly didn't love it...
The humor, as always, was great, I really liked the characters, and I LOVED the music, but the gameplay is what made it alot less enjoyable, mostly for the same reasons that Fryguy stated. In short, I much prefer the full-fledged RPG form of the series (the first PM is still my favorite).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2007 20:08:07 GMT -5
Fry, you have a lot of valid points. Just because I ♥ Count Bleck and his delightful minions doesn't mean I ♥ the game. XD The only thing I think I disagree with you about is the concept of flipping. To me, that seemed more overused than underused--it made me feel like I had to keep Mario equipped more often than the other characters, just in case I missed something hidden that could only be found by flipping.
I've said this before--the only Chapters that are really great are the first three and the final one. World 7 is decent and actually a bit touching by the time you reach the end of that chapter, but is also tangled up in the massive fetch-quest that spans Chapters 4-7. A lot of the Pixls you get are pointless once you've used them for their specified puzzles--only , Boomer, Carrie, Barry and Cudge do me any good long after I've unlocked them, and Carrie eventually gets replaced by Dashell. I'm likewise not fond of the art style used for Flipside and Flopside's NPCs--it feels very lazy. Oh, and Chapter 5 can frigging blow me for having to type "please" so much and then having to write down the code needed to move on. Ugh.
Not to mention this game is host to some of the most obnoxious tetriary characters ever in a Mario game...Watchitt and in particular Flint Cragley drove me freaking buggy.
Overall, I too would like to see Bleck and crew return in another game, just to say that their awesomeness has been in something that's better than SPM. And heck, I want to see a sequel to SPM that doesn't you know, suck.
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Post by Sqrt2 on Oct 25, 2007 3:20:01 GMT -5
I agree, this game is too easy. The worst bit for me is that you have to almost constantly go into the menu to change Pixls/Characters/Use items. Also, I dislike how you constantly battle the same bosses over and over again, and have to beat them with the same strategy as before (especially O'Chunks).
Hopefully, the next Paper Mario game will be more challenging and fun to play.
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Post by Fryguy64 on Oct 25, 2007 4:35:41 GMT -5
Wow, I really wasn't expecting so many of you to jump on board on this one, especially after it got all those votes in the Best Game category in the Annual NinDB Awards I seriously haven't heard a bad word said about it, aside from the glaring bug near the beginning of the PAL version... I am still seriously looking forward to Galaxy, and I have Phantom Hourglass and (soon) Metroid Prime 3 to tide me over till that arrives. But when it was the only first party release in the calender for months on end, and given it had all that extra time to be converted from a Gamecube game, I was really expecting something from SPM. It's a sad state of affairs when Intelligent Systems starts knocking out rubbish. Nintendo... whatever happened to quality control? First Yoshi's Universal Gravitation, then Yoshi's Island 2 and now Super Paper Mario? Are you trying to kill off your mascot? |
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Post by Snuka7 on Oct 25, 2007 5:08:33 GMT -5
You know what Fryguy64, your right. Far out! I didn't like the game as much as the other Paper Mario RPGs. I didn't exacly notice it while playing. But now I remember how much I loved the other games. It took me a year to beat Paper Mario and the Thousand Year Door! Half a year to play the levels, and another half to try beat the Shadow Queen! I didn't even die one time at the end of the game in Super Paper Mario! I won't say any spoliers, but I say that the story was good but the Gameplay was pretty Crap in Super Paper Mario!
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(But that doesn't mean its a bad game) 
