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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2007 12:16:24 GMT -5
The worst trend they did start, of course, is the inclusion of Shadow...which has spiralled out of control from there, because now we're looking at six different friggin' Hedgehogs: Sonic, Amy, Metal Sonic, Shadow, Silver and Mephiles. The latter three, of course, look like they came from DeviantArtist "fancharacters," and have about as much personality I disagree completely. Honestly, if they hadn't added any new characters, I certainly would've been tired of the series long, loooong ago. After all, the inclusion of new characters and their abilities is generally all the innovation the Sonic series gets. This is my thinking on the new characters situation: Which is easier: making new, throwaway characters whose powers conveniently fit into the gameplay Sonic Team wants to portray, or further developing already existing characters to meet the same ends? What purpose did Shadow and Rouge initially serve that, say, Metal Sonic and Fang couldn't have done better? (Aside from Rouge's T&A, anyway). Is there any particular reason Tails couldn't develop ESP due to his massive intellect and serve to replace Headfungus the Hedgehog in Sonic '06? Granted, neither option could be well-executed (this is Sonic Team we're talking about, after all), but they could have at least gone the extra mile to let their previous characters grow. The only new character I justify beyond Sonic CD and Triple Trouble is Gamma who--oddly enough--died at the end of Sonic Adventure. There's no excuse for all the disposable characters that have been made since then. |
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Post by kirbychu on Mar 26, 2007 12:22:17 GMT -5
Actually, Tails, Amy and Knuckles in particular have had a lot of character development. Tails has slowly gone from the timid child who hides behind Sonic to being a more confident boy who can easily fight his own battles, Amy has gone from helpless damsel to someone who the entire cast are now afraid to anger, and Knuckles has gone from the moody loner to Sonic's best friend.
Unfortunately, most of the fanbase get pissed off every time a character is changed even the slightest bit, so it looks like Sonic Team are a little afraid of doing it now.
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Post by Smashchu on Mar 26, 2007 16:22:29 GMT -5
Actually, Tails, Amy and Knuckles in particular have had a lot of character development. Tails has slowly gone from the timid child who hides behind Sonic to being a more confident boy who can easily fight his own battles, Amy has gone from helpless damsel to someone who the entire cast are now afraid to anger, and Knuckles has gone from the moody loner to Sonic's best friend. Unfortunately, most of the fanbase get pissed off every time a character is changed even the slightest bit, so it looks like Sonic Team are a little afraid of doing it now. Which sucks becuase that's what made Sonic's Adventure's story enjoyable. Now, it's either to mature(Sonic 360) or to kiddy(S&tSR). I know platformers aren't known for their story, but come on. This is my thinking on the new characters situation: Which is easier: making new, throwaway characters whose powers conveniently fit into the gameplay Sonic Team wants to portray, or further developing already existing characters to meet the same ends? What purpose did Shadow and Rouge initially serve that, say, Metal Sonic and Fang couldn't have done better? (Aside from Rouge's T&A, anyway). Is there any particular reason Tails couldn't develop ESP due to his massive intellect and serve to replace Headfungus the Hedgehog in Sonic '06? Granted, neither option could be well-executed (this is Sonic Team we're talking about, after all), but they could have at least gone the extra mile to let their previous characters grow. The only new character I justify beyond Sonic CD and Triple Trouble is Gamma who--oddly enough--died at the end of Sonic Adventure. There's no excuse for all the disposable characters that have been made since then. Yeah. A new character every now and then is fine, but at the rate Sonic Team does them is unthinkable. A least Mario tries to space them out and focus on the major ones. I like your thinking. Maybe give Tails a gravity gun like weapon. I would like a 3D game where everyone just went fast. Maybe just Sonic, Tail, Knuckels and Amy. They would just have their own levels with their own set path. Maybe like Sonic 3 & Knuckels where they play the levels all in the same order, but with different level types. Yeah, that would be fun, then just iron out the camera and control issues. Actually, the camera issu wouldn't be too hard. Either make it free, or take a page from Zelda and have a button to set it behind your character. |
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Post by Manspeed on Mar 26, 2007 16:32:36 GMT -5
Actually, Tails, Amy and Knuckles in particular have had a lot of character development. Tails has slowly gone from the timid child who hides behind Sonic to being a more confident boy who can easily fight his own battles, Amy has gone from helpless damsel to someone who the entire cast are now afraid to anger, and Knuckles has gone from the moody loner to Sonic's best friend. They did during SA2, but haven't developed at all after that. Now they're just in the background. How can we get pissed at that if the characters in question don't even serve big roles anymore? I'm pissed because all the new characters keep hogging to spotlight, leaving the old ones to rot. |
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Post by Smashchu on Mar 26, 2007 16:37:41 GMT -5
quote] They did during SA2, but haven't developed at all after that. Now they're just in the background. Becuase they aren't dark(eno) enough like the new characters. Sega really needs to get back to it's roots. I mean REALLy get back. Naming the 360 game "Sonic the Hedgehog" and putting Sonic as the only playable character in S&tSR doesn't count. I assum it's people like the freaks at Deviant Art. They seem to love new characters, they make their own all the time. Me., I'm perfectly happy with Sonic, Tails Knuckels and Amy. They did a good job with those characters. |
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Post by kirbychu on Mar 26, 2007 16:41:20 GMT -5
I think the reason the new characters don't bother me is that Sonic Team are just continuing with what they've been wanting to do the entire time. To build their own little world full of colourful little animal guys. People act like they suddenly started adding new characters without warning, but every Sonic game that Sonic Team themselves have made since the very beginning has introduced at least one new character. Usually two or more, though.
And they use the characters pretty well, in my opinion. They'll be introduced, then go back away for a while so that's it's a nice surprise when they show up again.People complain that Shadow has been crammed into every game's story, but since his introduction he was absent from Advance, Advance 2, Advance 3, Rush, Riders and Secret Rings. That's more games than he's actually appeared in since SA2.
In fact, the only characters who've appeared in every game since their introduction are Sonic, Eggman, Tails and Knuckles.
Yes, another rant! Aren't you lucky!?
EDIT: Rob-Bert, I'm bloody glad that Knuckles in particular has been more in the background lately. He was being far overused and his excuses for leaving Angel Island are worn out. He needs to take a break. As for Tails... he hasn't really had a smaller role at all. He's always important to us actually knowing what's going on in the story, even when he's not playable.
New characters hog the spotlight because they're new characters. We're supposed to learn about them when they're introduced.
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Post by Smashchu on Mar 26, 2007 16:54:14 GMT -5
What gets me is introducing them and then throwing them to the side. Rouge(I I spelled that right) got kind of pushed to the back. Maybe cause she sounded like a tranny, who knows.
But, in a way I agree with all of you guys. I like a new character, but at the ssame time, would be just as happy if they used the basic four.
Most of all, I need the gameplay. I would love if they made a few tweaks here and there and refined the 3D Sonic games. S&tSR is a good start, but I was thinking the adventure style. I'm hoping Sega will re-do Sonic Team, and just add the disgruntal fans. Maybe then they'll finally iron out all the flaws of the games.
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Post by kirbychu on Mar 26, 2007 17:14:59 GMT -5
From what I've seen, if fans were in charge of the games, we'd be playing Sonic & Knuckles 3D 17 ten years from now.  Has Rouge been pushed to the back? She was pretty much the back-seat leader of Team Dark in Heroes, and since then she's basically been Shadow's answer to Tails. It seems like a good fit for her. Rouge is actually my favourite female character in the series right now. A character with an entertaining flaw is great by my standards. |
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Post by Manspeed on Mar 27, 2007 14:32:07 GMT -5
Yet we still don't know jack-squat about Sonic himself.
I can understand Knuckles being in the background, but they seem to stick him in there anyway. If they didn't want to use him, why is he still being used? At least give us a legit explanation. It also annoys me how the rivalry between him and Sonic has been completely diminished. You'd think they'd at least get on each other's nerves once in a while.
Sonic Adventure's plot centered around Knuckles' family history. That's all well and good. SA2's plot developed the characters a bit more and gave us a bit of info on Eggman's family history. Every Sonic game after that has either little to no story, or a story that tries to mooch off of whatever made SA2 popular.
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Post by Smashchu on Mar 27, 2007 15:06:32 GMT -5
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Post by kirbychu on Mar 27, 2007 17:17:59 GMT -5
Yet we still don't know jack-squat about Sonic himself. I can understand Knuckles being in the background, but they seem to stick him in there anyway. If they didn't want to use him, why is he still being used? At least give us a legit explanation. It also annoys me how the rivalry between him and Sonic has been completely diminished. You'd think they'd at least get on each other's nerves once in a while. There is, deliberately, not a lot to know about Sonic. He's a character who travels from place to place all over the world helping people out for no real reason other than that he can. They could give him some detailed past, but don't people dislike Shadow for having that? As for Knuckles, they do still bicker, but they're close friends now. The reason Knuckles stays around even when he's not needed is that he's the fouth most popular character according to Sonic Channel's polls a while back. Sonic was first, Shadow was second and Tails was third. |
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Post by Manspeed on Mar 27, 2007 17:28:02 GMT -5
No, people dislike Shadow for cheating death and getting a shat game. I could understand liking him when he first came about. He even died a rather honorable death. Then the following games act as if it never happened, and they even tried to cash in on his popularity by giving us a lousy game that did nothing but try to be cool by following the latest "trends" in gaming.
I would really love to know about Sonic himself. Anything at all. He's got a well-developed personality, why not a bit of a background? I honestly thought Sonic The Hedgehog 2006 was going to be all about him, given the title and the teaser footage.
But instead we get what was an attempt to be SA2.5. All Sonic gets now are giant monster things that Eggman loses control of, useless appearances by Shadow, human girls to flirt with, and the lack of roles for older characters.
If they won't make a game centering around Sonic's past, at least give us one about Tails. Seriously, a new Tails Adventure would be da bomb.
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Post by kirbychu on Mar 27, 2007 17:45:11 GMT -5
They never pretended Shadow's death never happened. Hell, Shadow the Hedgehog was all about Shadow trying to get to the bottom of what really happened to him there. Personally, I don't want any background for Sonic. I like him as he is, simple and unburdened. In fact, giving him a history kind of contradicts his "I never look back, I have no regrets" philosophy on life. Tails is the most likely character to get his own game next, considering his popularity, so that should be good news for you. |
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Post by Manspeed on Mar 27, 2007 18:03:58 GMT -5
Can't be bothered using the quote tag.
They never pretended Shadow's death never happened. Hell, Shadow the Hedgehog was all about Shadow trying to get to the bottom of what really happened to him there.
With an explanation like "My robots saved you at the last second", I'm pretty sure they didn't have to make the whole game for that reason alone.
Personally, I don't want any background for Sonic. I like him as he is, simple and unburdened. In fact, giving him a history kind of contradicts his "I never look back, I have no regrets" philosophy on life.
You're boring. They could tell us how he came to follow that philosophy or why he acts the way he does about life, or something along those lines.
Tails is the most likely character to get his own game next, considering his popularity, so that should be good news for you.
How positive are you of this? With a track record like theirs, I's say the odds are slim. I'll keep my fingers crossed anyway, though.
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Post by kirbychu on Mar 27, 2007 18:14:52 GMT -5
With an explanation like "My robots saved you at the last second", I'm pretty sure they didn't have to make the whole game for that reason alone. Whatever explaination they went with, you still can't deny that a large portion of the game was about Shadow trying to find out whether or not he'd survived that day or if he was just a robotic copy of the original. I wouldn't really call that pretending it never happened is all... You're boring. They could tell us how he came to follow that philosophy or why he acts the way he does about life, or something along those lines. From Sonic's page on Sonic Channel (translated, of course): "Selfishly fond of freedom but very likeable, with a great dislike of secrecy. Although sometimes quick tempered, he possesses kindness in bringing freedom to distressed people. Considering life a series of events and adventures, he lives by his own rules and common sense. He keeps promises. He is no traitor. His justice is honest. Though a habitual daredevil aloof from the world, when some kind of crisis arises he becomes a different person, with a degree of intensity and sharpness that astonishes the watcher. In any case, you cannot quietly be the fastest hedgehog in history." His entire personality is pretty much defined by the fact that he's able to run so fast. If you could run at the speed of sound and do stunts like he does, wouldn't you travel the world doing whatever made you happy? It seems to me that trying to add some deep-rooted psychlogical reason for it would just ruin what makes him so lovable in the first place. |
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