Update #58: "Donkey Kong: Final Smash"

[Dasher Misire]

admin said:

dasherkoopa said:

Aw geez Fryguy that hurts, I just joined DK Vine recently. They make good points here as Jungle Beat raped the series and Paon's keeping it alive so therefore no reason to close it.

Well... UNJOIN it! Any idiot can make the odd reasonable remark. But the fact they write off the original Donkey Kong series as crap, and are completely blind to the fact that DKJB isn't supposed to be a DKC style platformer, but a genre-defying arcade-style rhythm-platformer both rile me. Their arguments are based on hate and rarely on reasons. And when they do provide reasons, they are usually flawed.

Let me tell you this... Jungle Beat reinvigorated my faith in Nintendo. It's not a Rare game. Bloody big surprise there! No, it's a Nintendo game, written to Nintendo's rules. It's huge, it's beautiful, it's challenging in a whole new way. Jungle Beat is one of the best games on the Gamecube, as it really does break new ground in platform gaming. I don't expect you to agree or understand - but when you've completed entire levels without touching the ground, flinging that big ape from one side of the screen to the other with perfect timing and rhythm, then you can tell me Nintendo didn't create something beautiful.

And "raping" a series doesn't mean trying something new with it, or else Paon is just as guilty with their excellent (though finger-crippling) DK:KOS/JC games. You want to talk about series-raping, take a look at Artoon and the Yoshi games. Now THAT is a felony.

You sound mad at me, what may I have done? I don't want you to hate me, I love this site but... In several ways my opinions sided with them before I joined or even saw the site.

I love the original DK games, seriously. But after playing DKC and DKC2 a bit I thought DKJB was a large leap from what was re-established. But when I played it I admit it was sorta fun to leap and punch and clap to stun enemies, and it's extremely creative on a non-biased viewpoint.

Paon does an excellent job, I think I played KoS an entire weekend along with Animal Crossing and got everything in it, I loved the creativity done with the L and R buttons and can't wait to see the style again.

And I don't always side with DKU, I loved the first Donkey Konga. I whip it out now and then to bongo to Oye Como Va and Whip It.

[kirbychu]

robert said:

The big question: WHY did they change all the characters? What was wrong with them? They may as well have not used Donkey Kong as the player character!

They didn't change any characters. It's just that said characters were not given a role.

It's not like Diddy was replaced by a new helper character... DK just didn't have any helper character. They didn't replace Cranky with somebody else in the story scenes... there were no story scenes.

Why wasn't King K. Rool there? What would the ramifications be if he was? If DK had taken over King K. Rool's kingdom too... then King K. Rool no longer has a kingdom. He just becomes Mr. K. Rool, a lone, fat crocodile who has an eye condition, wears a cape, and mutters under his breath about how he used to be a king while he pushes a trolley filled with all his possessions around Sainsbury's car park.

[Dances in Undergarments]

kirbychu said:

He just becomes Mr. K. Rool, a lone, fat crocodile who has an eye condition, wears a cape, and mutters under his breath about how he used to be a king while he pushes a trolley filled with all his possessions around Sainsbury's car park.

I would buy this game. Also, Mr. K. Rool for brawl.

[Sqrt2]

fliptroopa said:

Personally, I preferred the bright, colorful world of Jungle Beat as opposed to DKC's more dreary Kongo Isle. The colors were too drab, the levels were all so... boring and dark. Everything was caves and pirates and water.

I'll take those drab colours and dark levels over any bright, colourful, super happy levels and a seemingly naff control scheme anyday.

As for the idea of K.Rool pushing a trolley round Sainsbury's, I'm in agreement with DiU.

[Manspeed]

fliptroopa said:

robert said:

The big question: WHY did they change all the characters? What was wrong with them? They may as well have not used Donkey Kong as the player character!

Because they want to expand the universe and explore new areas with the character. Personally, I preferred the bright, colorful world of Jungle Beat as opposed to DKC's more dreary Kongo Isle. The colors were too drab, the levels were all so... boring and dark. Everything was caves and pirates and water. Jungle Beat had soaring skies and colorful jungles and crazy pyramids that I sorely wanted in a DK game.

It was just a better atmosphere overall

Now I want drastic changes for all of Nintendo's other franchises in the same vein, just to see how people react.

[Deleted]

You mean like a Cel-shaded Zelda? :D Or Mario with a water pack, or a Star Fox game that takes place predominantly outside an Arwing, Wario becoming an ADHD kid's best friend with five-second minigames, or, heaven forbid, a Metroid FPS! All things, mind you, people took as signs of the Apocolypse at the time (and some people still treat them that way!). Granted, Wind Waker was short and clunky and SFAdv was flat-out horrible, but it's just going to happen with established game franchises and Donkey Kong happens to be the most recent.

Rob, you have the right to not enjoy these changes (I'm certainly no fan of the path Rare forced Star Fox down; I wouldn't mind losing an entire folder of Krystal porn to a temporal "Undo" if it means Falco gets more spotlight), nobody is saying you don't.

At this point the entire argument (debate, conflict, whatever you want to call it) has gotten silly on both sides. XD I vote we move on.

[Fryguy64]

dasherkoopa said:

You sound mad at me, what may I have done? I don't want you to hate me, I love this site but... In several ways my opinions sided with them before I joined or even saw the site.

I love the original DK games, seriously. But after playing DKC and DKC2 a bit I thought DKJB was a large leap from what was re-established. But when I played it I admit it was sorta fun to leap and punch and clap to stun enemies, and it's extremely creative on a non-biased viewpoint.

Paon does an excellent job, I think I played KoS an entire weekend along with Animal Crossing and got everything in it, I loved the creativity done with the L and R buttons and can't wait to see the style again.

And I don't always side with DKU, I loved the first Donkey Konga. I whip it out now and then to bongo to Oye Como Va and Whip It.

Well, there you go! It's sorta fun. It's not the next DKC, but it's fun. I'm not mad at you, by the way. I find DKU infuriating - a website run by people who take games far too seriously.

DKJB was a big leap. It could have easily been a completely different character and a whole new franchise - but it used the DK Bongos, so that kinda tied DK into it. But why would Diddy needed to have been there? He would have been flab - added to appease fans. Instead we have one of the purest games on Gamecube.

And for all the DKJB haters, the same team is also making Super Mario Galaxy. ;D

[Manspeed]

Except that Super Mario Galaxy actually has familiar Mario characters and stuff in it. Why? I have no clue. Maybe Nintendo Tokyo hates Rare's styling or something. I will say that battling a giant Occoco sucks compared to fighting a giant living barrel.

And with that, I move on.

[Smashchu]

I will agree with Flip, the game llooked amazing. It definatly had personality, which I think rare lacked in terms of graphics. Most platformers of the day could convey their game though graphics.

Music though, tyhat's what I like. I think Sega did the best job with their Sonic games. Sonic 3 & Knuckles really progressed the game. From funcky to a bit dramatic. They definatly made it to where you were on an advernute. i mention that becuase music and graphics work together to bring a feel. Rare never really excelled here. Thier music was passible at best. I never remember myself humming the tunes. But Jungle Beat. Now that had some good tunes. They definatly were funcky and crazy. Like the game. Plus they cheered you on. I love that in games.

[Dasher Misire]

admin said:

dasherkoopa said:

You sound mad at me, what may I have done? I don't want you to hate me, I love this site but... In several ways my opinions sided with them before I joined or even saw the site.

I love the original DK games, seriously. But after playing DKC and DKC2 a bit I thought DKJB was a large leap from what was re-established. But when I played it I admit it was sorta fun to leap and punch and clap to stun enemies, and it's extremely creative on a non-biased viewpoint.

Paon does an excellent job, I think I played KoS an entire weekend along with Animal Crossing and got everything in it, I loved the creativity done with the L and R buttons and can't wait to see the style again.

And I don't always side with DKU, I loved the first Donkey Konga. I whip it out now and then to bongo to Oye Como Va and Whip It.

Well, there you go! It's sorta fun. It's not the next DKC, but it's fun. I'm not mad at you, by the way. I find DKU infuriating - a website run by people who take games far too seriously.

DKJB was a big leap. It could have easily been a completely different character and a whole new franchise - but it used the DK Bongos, so that kinda tied DK into it. But why would Diddy needed to have been there? He would have been flab - added to appease fans. Instead we have one of the purest games on Gamecube.

And for all the DKJB haters, the same team is also making Super Mario Galaxy. ;D

But they're doing Galaxy right. I've known this since 2006 and we've seen MAGIKOOPAS, Bob-ombs, Boos, Fighter Flies, Wigglers, Tox Boxes, SPLUNKINS, Dry Bones, TORPEDO TEDS, and other memorable characters.

[TV Eye]

dasherkoopa said:

admin said:

Well, there you go! It's sorta fun. It's not the next DKC, but it's fun. I'm not mad at you, by the way. I find DKU infuriating - a website run by people who take games far too seriously.

DKJB was a big leap. It could have easily been a completely different character and a whole new franchise - but it used the DK Bongos, so that kinda tied DK into it. But why would Diddy needed to have been there? He would have been flab - added to appease fans. Instead we have one of the purest games on Gamecube.

And for all the DKJB haters, the same team is also making Super Mario Galaxy. ;D

But they're doing Galaxy right. I've known this since 2006 and we've seen MAGIKOOPAS, Bob-ombs, Boos, Fighter Flies, Wigglers, Tox Boxes, SPLUNKINS, Dry Bones, TORPEDO TEDS, and other memorable characters.

That's the good thing about Mario. Zelda Twilight Princess also brought back old enemies such as the Darknut and Stalfos.

[Flip]

There are MAGIKOOPAS in Galaxy? SHOW ME!

[Dasher Misire]

www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=7350813

[kirbychu]

tveye said:

That's the good thing about Mario. Zelda Twilight Princess also brought back old enemies such as the Darknut and Stalfos.

I thought Wind Waker was the game which brought back Darknut... and has there actually been a Zelda game without Stalfos?

[Dasher Misire]

Yeah, no enemy has been in every Zelda game.

Darknuts came into a true 3D game in TP. WW was their return but that's another timeline anyway, the OOT future one so yeah.