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Post by Smashchu on Jan 8, 2008 22:42:07 GMT -5
I think what people are trying to say and having difficulty with is that, in Melee, the Male Wire Frame had several of the same character animations as Captain Falcon, and the female ones did for Zelda - including their unique walking motions and A-button attacks. The models themselves were not spot-on accurate and they lacked both the same physics as well as all of their Special moves, but you could tell where the inspiration came from on them. Beyond the special moves, they do share models. The Female wire frame in perticular, which still had Zelda's unique Up Smash and >< Air. The Male and Female also had the same walking animation. It's safe to say that, beyond the special moves and any other special properties, the Wire Frames and Falcon/Zelda are the same. They just recycled the model. But yes, the fames are suppose to be generic Male and Female, but this is proably why they take Zelda/Falcon. For their none specials, they are pretty generic looking (except for the magic and flames part). |
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Post by kirbychu on Jan 9, 2008 4:51:22 GMT -5
They didn't recycle the models. The model is the way the character looks, nothing more. If they'd reused that, the Fighting Wire Frames would just be wireframe versions of Falcon and Zelda, which they're not.
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Post by Smashchu on Jan 9, 2008 7:52:44 GMT -5
They didn't recycle the models. The model is the way the character looks, nothing more. If they'd reused that, the Fighting Wire Frames would just be wireframe versions of Falcon and Zelda, which they're not. Well, the character moves similar and they look similar (not exactly of course). In that sense, beyond a cosmetic change, they are recycled. Everything is taken from existing characters. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2008 20:53:29 GMT -5
They didn't recycle the models. The model is the way the character looks, nothing more. If they'd reused that, the Fighting Wire Frames would just be wireframe versions of Falcon and Zelda, which they're not. Well, the character moves similar and they look similar (not exactly of course). In that sense, beyond a cosmetic change, they are recycled. Everything is taken from existing characters. |
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Post by Smashchu on Jan 9, 2008 23:19:19 GMT -5
Well, the character moves similar and they look similar (not exactly of course). In that sense, beyond a cosmetic change, they are recycled. Everything is taken from existing characters. I tried looking up a definition on 3D Models, but since it's a broad term, it was hard to get anything straight. I asked at Smashboards and the response I got are they are the skeletal design used for Zelda and Falcon/Gannondorf. I'll try and find a pic for comparison. Also, I think you can look at one of the Falcon trophies and the Male Wire frame and they do the same pose. |
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Post by Spud on Jan 9, 2008 23:30:21 GMT -5
Like I said before, the Wire Frames borrowed animations, not models - and "animations" consist of the way a character moves. Falcon and Zelda both have generic bodytypes, so there's no real argument one way or the other on this one. I tried looking up a definition on 3D Models, but since it's a broad term, it was hard to get anything straight. I asked at Smashboards and the response I got are they are the skeletal design used for Zelda and Falcon/Gannondorf. I'll try and find a pic for comparison. Also, I think you can look at one of the Falcon trophies and the Male Wire frame and they do the same pose. The modal would be the polygon mesh that makes up the surfaces that textures would be drawn on to. It can encompass the armature structure that is used to perform the animation generally if their in the same file, which for smash (at least melee) they aren't. |
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Post by Smashchu on Jan 9, 2008 23:45:32 GMT -5
I tried looking up a definition on 3D Models, but since it's a broad term, it was hard to get anything straight. I asked at Smashboards and the response I got are they are the skeletal design used for Zelda and Falcon/Gannondorf. I'll try and find a pic for comparison. Also, I think you can look at one of the Falcon trophies and the Male Wire frame and they do the same pose. The modal would be the polygon mesh that makes up the surfaces that textures would be drawn on to. It can encompass the armature structure that is used to perform the animation generally if their in the same file, which for smash (at least melee) they aren't. Well, a wire frame is a model. |
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Post by Fryguy64 on Jan 10, 2008 4:28:52 GMT -5
Surely we've all seen the YouTube video where character models in Melee are mapped on to the animations for other characters. This leads to some weird WEIRD animations... This is basically the same. The wireframes models have nothing to do with Falcon or Zelda, but their unique models are mapped to the animations of Falcon and Zelda, and limited in the moves they can use. So, if you follow so far, that means Captain Falcon's animations are definitely programmed into the game! So stop fretting about him not being there yet  This means the Yellow and Green Alloys are also mapped to a character's animation. Following his description, I'm guessing Green's are mapped to Kirby's. Yellow could be Mario or Lucas... or anyone really! We haven't seem him moving nearly enough. On a related note. Say "Red Alloy, Yellow Alloy" ten times fast! |
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Post by Goomba Joe on Jan 10, 2008 20:15:56 GMT -5
Ooh...got a link to those vids?  (sorry for offtopic-ness, backing away now...) |
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Post by Spud on Jan 10, 2008 21:20:01 GMT -5
The modal would be the polygon mesh that makes up the surfaces that textures would be drawn on to. It can encompass the armature structure that is used to perform the animation generally if their in the same file, which for smash (at least melee) they aren't. Well, a wire frame is a model. Falcon's helmet is part of his modal. Falcon's helmet is not part of Male Wireframe's Modal. |
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Post by Smashchu on Jan 10, 2008 21:32:17 GMT -5
Well, a wire frame is a model. Falcon's helmet is part of his modal. Falcon's helmet is not part of Male Wireframe's Modal. And Ganondorf and Falcon have the same model. EDIT: Also Here |
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Post by Spud on Jan 10, 2008 21:44:12 GMT -5
Falcon's helmet is part of his modal. Falcon's helmet is not part of Male Wireframe's Modal. And Ganondorf and Falcon have the same model.  No, they probably have the same hitbox data and similar animations, but I don't recall falcon having hooked nose or cape armatures or spiked boots. I've given you a clear definition of a modal as it applies to 3D character design, nothing that someone says on smashboards is going to make me change my mind on it. |
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Post by Smashchu on Jan 10, 2008 21:48:27 GMT -5
And Ganondorf and Falcon have the same model. No, they probably have the same hitbox data and similar animations, but I don't recall falcon having hooked nose or cape armatures or spiked boots. Ganondorf and Falcon have the same model. Sakurai also mentions this himself on the Melee site (where I'm not sure) From what I've heard from other people, the helmet and other designs are strictly fluff added to the character. The skeletal models are what are the underlining things. This is why Capt. Falcon and Male WF have the same model. I mean, why would there be two different models for two characters who share everything beyond the B moves and some move properties (especially as one of them is minor). Check the link in my last post. |
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Post by Spud on Jan 10, 2008 22:26:25 GMT -5
No, they probably have the same hitbox data and similar animations, but I don't recall falcon having hooked nose or cape armatures or spiked boots. Ganondorf and Falcon have the same model. Sakurai also mentions this himself on the Melee site (where I'm not sure) From what I've heard from other people, the helmet and other designs are strictly fluff added to the character. The skeletal models are what are the underlining things. This is why Capt. Falcon and Male WF have the same model. I mean, why would there be two different models for two characters who share everything beyond the B moves and some move properties (especially as one of them is minor). Check the link in my last post. But the "Skeleton" is the armature structure not the mesh modal. Again, I've spent to long studying game design in as many aspects as possible to swayed by definitions given by mods on smashboards. If Gannondorf's Capt. Falcon's and male wireframe's Armature structure pointed to the same place though I would sill be able to see Ganondorf's cape structure in debug mode on either one of them.  Left to right Capt Falcon, Male Wireframe, Link, Gannondorf. And I don't. Simply put the Armature structure is similar the mesh model is similar. But they are different files and different models and different Skeletons. @goomba joe LinkBe sure to mute. |
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Post by Boo Destroyer on Jan 10, 2008 22:40:57 GMT -5
Oh god, how much are you guys going to argue about this model/animation issue?
Captain Falcon is basically in the game. Where's Luigi? Where's Ganondorf? Where's Mewtwo? Where's Jigglypuff? It's a given that most from before would return.
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