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Post by Smashchu on Mar 6, 2008 22:04:21 GMT -5
I don't think Sakurai cares whether they are rip-offs or unwanted. Pokemon Trainer is basically a rip-off of Zelda/Sheik only they are three characters in one opposed to two characters in one. Unwise to change characters? Sakurai changed Mario's down special, Bowser's side special, and even added Zero Suit Samus to regular Samus.... so I don't think it matters if Dixie Kong was added to Diddy Kong as a team that can switch places (with the taunt) or if Baby Mario was added to Yoshi that happens to be playable whenever Yoshi uses his FS. And remember Landmaster? Yeah, he ripped off Fox twice in Brawl now. Meowth may not be a good choice for SSB4, but come on now.. people said Wolf, Cel-Shaded Link, Olimar, and R.O.B. wouldn't be good choices. They are just likely additions to SSB4, JMO. Here's the thing We have Yoshi and Diddy in Smash now. There was probably a reason Sakurai didn't use Dixie. He really liked the idea and she was on the disk, but it didn't happen. Also, Yoshi has been in three smash brother games. It would be out of place to edit now. The problem is that people need to like these choices, and all four of those choses will not meet that goal. People wanted Olimar, Toon Link and Wolf (more Japan for the latter and people like ROB (look at our ROB post). They are added becuase they give something more that people would like and be interested in. Meowth is a good example of where this comes into play. Meowth isn't popular. Very few people want him, besides the people who think he has importaince from the anime (FYI:Anime does not count towards anything. Pokemon usually pop up in the anime more becuase they are popular, not the other way around. Look at Jigglypuff). He really wont add too much new or interesting. Thus, he is apokeball. We also have Overall Wario. Toon Link is justified. He was wanted, he replaces Y. Link and he adds something to the game. Overall Wario is no different then the other one. They would have the same stats, just different moves. While, yes, they are different as they appear in different games, however, Wario takes elements from Wario Land and there is no fan want for a separate character. It's not as easy as just throwing characters on a list. Just becuase Sakurai gave three characters similar moves does not mean you can do it for others, and just becuase he changed some characters moves does not mean they are radically different. Yoshi/baby Mario is trying to greatly change an already original character. Not everyone has to be bizzard. It's good if it works. Also not that he does not have Baby Mario in every game. Also, you mention that PKMN Tranier and Zelda/sheik were just rip offs, but isn't Dixie/Diddy a rip off of ICs, even more so as Z/S and PKMN share a few key, yet importaint differences. To make a good roster, you need to A)Pay attention to what people want and B)Make sure that who you add will be liked. (NOTE:I did think of Baby Mario as a seperate character for the Yoshi franchise. I am skeptical, however, if it would go over well.) |
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Post by Arcadenik on Mar 6, 2008 22:20:17 GMT -5
My suggestion for Diddy & Dixie team was that they be a team like Ice Climbers... but down special would switch their places (Dixie in lead) where you play as Dixie with her own unique moveset with Diddy following behind her. Sure Dixie didn't make the cut in Brawl but that doesn't mean she cannot be in SSB4. Pit, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight, and King Dedede didn't make the cut in Melee and got in Brawl.
As for Meowth, sure, he isn't important in the games except for Pokemon Mystery Dungeon and Pokemon Yellow... but he still is popular enough to make a comeback in Brawl even if it is as a Poke-Assist. That shows that Sakurai acknowledges Meowth as a popular Pokemon... but he chose Lucario over Meowth because he wanted to replace Mewtwo and that Lucario is more popular than Meowth (thanks to that movie) even though Lucario isn't that important in the games except maybe in Pokemon Diamond/Pearl and Pokemon Mystery Dungeon. But come SSB4, there will be 5th or 6th gen Pokemon... and one of those future Pokemon will be overrated because of a movie.. so that Pokemon would likely replace Lucario... and if the Brawl roster grows bigger in SSB4 that there are 5 characters per column compared to 4 characters... so it is possible Meowth gets the 5th Poke-slot since Meowth is next in line after Red (Pokemon Trainer) in Melee poll.
As for Baby Mario... I meant that Baby Mario does absolutely nothing while you are playing as Yoshi. He is just for decoration.... BUT when Yoshi gets the Smash Ball, Yoshi gets inside the egg that follows Baby Mario around and Baby Mario gets his own moveset. Of course his FS would be hatching Yoshi to ride Yoshi's back as Yoshi flies around breathing fireballs before resuming playing as Yoshi.
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Post by Flip on Mar 7, 2008 1:29:11 GMT -5
I don't think they'll be drastically changing any standards by this point. Hell, I imagine they would go back and change some of them to their pre-Brawl counterparts if anything (Mario losing FLUDD is one example). But I do think we'll see Pokemon Trainer change into a new character, definitely, with new options for the next game. Same for Lucario.
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Neko Neko Panic
Pikpik Carrot
Copying Leo gives Kirby the power stun enemies... with stupidity.
Posts: 166
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Post by Neko Neko Panic on Mar 7, 2008 2:02:25 GMT -5
(Mario losing FLUDD is one example). Yeah, using FLUDD makes me miss Mario Tornado, so I drift more toward Luigi now... but falling on my head after Up-special is a bit annoying in its own way. |
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Post by Game Guru on Mar 7, 2008 4:23:59 GMT -5
I don't think Sakurai cares whether they are rip-offs or unwanted. Pokemon Trainer is basically a rip-off of Zelda/Sheik only they are three characters in one opposed to two characters in one. Unwise to change characters? Sakurai changed Mario's down special, Bowser's side special, and even added Zero Suit Samus to regular Samus.... so I don't think it matters if Dixie Kong was added to Diddy Kong as a team that can switch places (with the taunt) or if Baby Mario was added to Yoshi that happens to be playable whenever Yoshi uses his FS. And remember Landmaster? Yeah, he ripped off Fox twice in Brawl now. Meowth may not be a good choice for SSB4, but come on now.. people said Wolf, Cel-Shaded Link, Olimar, and R.O.B. wouldn't be good choices. They are just likely additions to SSB4, JMO. No one I know has said that Wolf, Toon Link, Olimar, and R.O.B. wouldn't be good choices. In fact, your point would be better proved with Pokemon Trainer, since no sane person wanted him until he was announced to be kickass. Heck, Toon Link and Olimar were highly wanted and the Wolf fans argued with the Krystal fans over which Starfox character should be in. Everyone though R.O.B. wasn't going to be playable since he is a minor foe in SSE, so no one said if he was a good choice or not, only that he's in SSE as an enemy, so he can't be playable. Nintendo doesn't go around changing movesets much once they are set. It is an insult to DK and Yoshi fans to force team Diddy with Dixie or force Yoshi & Baby Mario together. It works for the Ice Climbers because it makes them relatively unique and they are relatively obscure. Dixie, at the very least, is able to stand as her own fighter, as do Diddy and Yoshi. It'd be like pairing Sonic with Tails just because Tails follows Sonic around in the Genesis games. There is a METHOD to the madness. For instance, Pokemon Trainer... People wanted Red as a playable character for Melee, but he can't REALLY fight, so he logically sends out his Pokemon to fight, and what better choices than the starter Pokemon lines? Not only does this please the Red fans, but also pleases the Squirtle and Charizard fans... And there IS indications that you are SUPPOSED to be the Pokemon Trainer, hence why Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard can only last 2 minutes at a time before weakening. Pokemon Trainer is dependent on his Pokemon so his Pokemon are in turn dependent on Pokemon Trainer. That's something you DON'T see with Zelda & Sheik, who are the same person and Zelda knows magic. Again, logical pairing, at least at the time. See if Sakurai really went for BIG changes, we wouldn't have Sheik in Brawl, and considering Nintendo was going to touch NOTHING, Sheik's staying. Samus and Zero Suit Samus are also a logical pairing. Same person, just requires the Power Suit to be destroyed or missing, which logically happens. As far as Overalls Wario, he doesn't exist to please the Wario Land fans... he exists to please the MARIO FANS who are used to seeing him in his overalls in the Sports games. Like it or not, WarioWare's Continuity replaced Wario Land's except in terms of the Mario Sports games. WarioWare is the game where Wario defined himself as his own character apart from Mario. Thirdly, I don't see Lucario's popularity dying. Yes, he's the newest Pokemon rep, but he's fairly unique in playstyle. He gets stronger as he takes damage. I can't see Mewtwo working like that, and Lucario IS the improved Mewtwo. I also don't see Ike getting replaced, since EVERY DEFAULT PLAYABLE CHARACTER IN SMASH BROS HAS RETURNED!!! Ike is a starting fighter, so he returns. Besides, Both Mewtwo and Roy lacked the popularity to return for Brawl, whereas Lucario and Ike might HAVE popularity. As for the rest of the ideas... Toad doesn't translate well... What is he going to do, use that bazooka he left at home? Tingle is unpopular in the West... Nearly all the "Popular in only one region" characters got grouped into Assists and Pokeball'd, Tingle included! Meowth is less popular now than he was back then. He missed the boat. Also if we get five reps and one of them is the representation of the 5th or 6th Pokemon game AND Lucario is kicked to the curb... it is more likely that we would get Mewtwo back than get Meowth. I can name the representatives of each of the Pokemon Generations... Pikachu is of course the best rep of the First Generation, Pichu of the Second Generation was in Melee, Plusle & Minun of the Third Generation were at least planned at one point for Brawl and is actually a pairing that works with how the characters are potrayed, and then Lucario, who is unique in not being an electric rodent. I feel sorry for Pachirisu, being a electric rodent and not even being the most popular fourth gen Pokemon. I also feel sorry for Raichu, who's just not cute enough. While Little Mac can run on the "NES Classics" card, Isaac needs to have a new game between now and SSB4's announcement to even be considered for the next game, and if he does, I'm sure he will be in. Lastly, the whole idea of Assist Trophies and Stages without fighters was to essentially involve Animal Crossing and Nintendogs without breaking the Rules for Smash. There will NEVER be a playable Animal Crossing character, EVER! You just have to read Iwata Asks for proof. Back to Wario again. In the WarioWare games, Wario doesn't fight, so thus MOST of Wario's movements are BASED on Wario Land and how Sakurai thinks Wario would fight. A Wario based on Wario Land would fight essentially the same way, except his Bike would instead be his Wario Car, and his Final Smash would be different. I think only Geno, Tingle, Little Mac, Krystal and if he gets a new game, Isaac are even within the realm of possibility. I think my joke comments of Smash 4 is a heck more likely than your ideas, which is kinda sad as some of them kick ass. Advance Wars CO is also a decent idea, especially if they need a clone of Snake. |
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Post by Arcadenik on Mar 7, 2008 8:24:17 GMT -5
I have seen people screaming that Wolf can't be in Brawl because he would just be a clone of Fox (they are right) but that didn't stop him from being playable in Brawl. Many people were against Toon Link because the graphics won't fit and that he would be a clone of Link (they are right) but his graphics didn't stop him from being playable in Brawl. Many people also were saying Olimar cannot be in Brawl because he's the size of a quarter and he cannot fight without Pikmin... well, he got in Brawl using Pikmin to fight despite his size. It is an insult to go around changing characters' movesets? Sakurai changed Mario's down special and Bowser's side special. I guess Mario and Bowser fans must be insulted but like it or not, Sakurai changed them nonetheless. The difference between Ice Climbers and Diddy & Dixie as a team is that the monkeys can switch places at will while the Ice Climbers cannot. With a taunt or a down special, the monkeys would switch places... Diddy in lead would use the same moveset he has in Brawl while Dixie in lead would use a different moveset. Diddy doesn't change his moveset at all... why, if he loses Dixie, his down special would be throwing banana peels like he does now in Brawl (same with Dixie). Yoshi & Baby Mario wouldn't change Yoshi's Brawl moveset. He still uses the same moveset. Baby Mario is just riding on Yoshi's back as a decoration. He does nothing but when Yoshi uses the Smash Ball, Baby Mario becomes playable as Yoshi turns into an egg. When Baby Mario uses the Smash Ball, Yoshi hatches from the egg and becomes Super Dragon with Baby Mario riding Yoshi before you resume playing as Yoshi. Yoshi would be the same as always even with Baby Mario riding his back. Overalls Wario in Brawl was just to throw a bone at the Wario Land fans (and Mario fans). And I doubt the Wario series is going to get any of the Wario Land nor WarioWare characters except for Overalls Wario. The new Wario might represent the WarioWare series while Overalls Wario would represent the Wario Land series. Maybe Overalls Wario would be a clone or semi-clone of Wario in terms of moveset... and we all know Sakurai wouldn't mind making more clones and semi-clones. I can actually see Lucario being replaced with an overrated 5th or 6th Gen movie Pokemon with a similar moveset despite having a fairly unique playstyle. Yes, every default playable characters in Smash Bros. has returned. Things change.. we got third-party characters after two games of pure Nintendo so I would not be surprised if one or two default characters didn't make the cut in SSB4. Toad doesn't translate well? How exactly? He could throw poison mushrooms to shrink his enemies, eat super mushrooms to grow bigger, shoot spores to turn enemies into mushrooms, and uses charged jumps to jump really high... basically his playstyle is using moves to make things fair for him (since he is weak and small) and he runs fast. Tingle may be unpopular in the West (aka North America) but he is popular all over the world seeing he got his own games in Japan and PAL Regions (didn't the UK get a Tingle game yet?) Anyway Zelda was only permitted four characters (4 slots per column) so of course Tingle didn't get in as the fifth Zelda character.. but if SSB4 got 5 slots per column, Tingle may have his chance. As for Meowth, yeah, Meowth is less popular now than before but he is still popular nonetheless. Even Sakurai acknowledged this and brought Meowth back even if he is at least a Pokeball Pokemon. Again, we only got four slots per column.. and Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Red (because he was next in line after Mewtwo in Melee poll) got them... so of course Lucario got the fourth slot since he is the popular movie Pokemon at the time much like how Mewtwo used to be the popular movie Pokemon at the time Melee came out. So if each column gets 5 slots and Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Red, and the new movie Pokemon (who replaces Lucario) get in... that 5th slot could go to Meowth seeing he is the next in line after Red in Melee poll. There was absolutely no excuse whatsoever for Animal Crossing characters to be unplayable when R.O.B. became playable. R.O.B. never fought so of course Sakurai creatively gave laser beams to R.O.B.'s robot eyes, rockets on R.O.B.'s base, and spinning arms based off R.O.B.'s moving arms when playing Gyromite or Stack Up, and finally those Gyromite projectiles from the Gyromite disks you used to play Gyromite. Animal Crossing Human could have used the axe, the net, the shovel, the slingshot, and the fishing pole to fight despite Animal Crossing being a peaceful game. (Mario losing FLUDD is one example). Yeah, using FLUDD makes me miss Mario Tornado, so I drift more toward Luigi now... but falling on my head after Up-special is a bit annoying in its own way. I thought Mario Tornado is now Mario's aerial down? |
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Post by TV Eye on Mar 7, 2008 8:42:51 GMT -5
This conversation is ridiculous. I think Yoshi's final smash should've been him turning into a tank. (Did he turn into a tank in Yoshi's Island? Eh, who cares. We need more tank final smashes  ) |
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Post by Spud on Mar 7, 2008 10:54:48 GMT -5
This conversation is ridiculous. I think Yoshi's final smash should've been him turning into a tank. (Did he turn into a tank in Yoshi's Island? Eh, who cares. We need more tank final smashes ) You're Right. - Bowser's Final Smash should be turning into one of the Tanks from SMB3.
- Mario/Luigi/Peach's Final Smash should be turning into a red/green/pink version of one of the Tanks from SMB3
- Link's final smash should be a landmaster and calling in tiny arwings like the ones from OoT.
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Post by TV Eye on Mar 7, 2008 11:00:53 GMT -5
Olimar should also have some type of miniature tank, Peach would get angry and a tank would fall from the sky, Kirby would swallow a tank and become one...
Damn, Sakurai should listen to us for the next SSB
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Post by Wildcat on Mar 7, 2008 11:55:28 GMT -5
Ike and Marth could cameo Advance Wars tanks!
Snake could steal Vulcan Raven's tank!
Sonic could have Robotnik in a tank!
XD
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Post by TV Eye on Mar 7, 2008 12:06:39 GMT -5
This is too much fun.
Pokemon Trainer calls forth his captured tank!
Pikachu creates an electric tank!
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Post by Flip on Mar 7, 2008 15:16:06 GMT -5
Let's not forget Captain Falcon is the enhanced "Blue Falcon Tank," followed by Ganondorf in the "Blue Falcon Totally NOT a car giant pig Tank"
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Post by Manspeed on Mar 7, 2008 15:36:13 GMT -5
Mr. Game and Watch could turn into a monochrome liquid crystal tank or something.
King Dedede would have a tank like the one from the Kirby anime.
Meta Knight would drive a Halberd-style tank.
Lucario would drive an invisible tank.
Ness and Lucas would both drive Mr. Saturn-themed tanks.
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Post by Arcadenik on Mar 7, 2008 18:04:45 GMT -5
This is too much fun. Pokemon Trainer calls forth his captured tank! Pikachu creates an electric tank! Pokemon Trainer's captured tank is the Milk Tank!!!!! ;D |
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Post by Goomba Joe on Mar 7, 2008 18:38:52 GMT -5
 DK and Diddy would use...um...wooden barrel tanks. Toon Link would use a CEL-SHADED tank! |
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