jigglysama
Chibi-Robo
Pokemon Gijinka Fan
Posts: 227
|
Post by jigglysama on Mar 7, 2008 19:29:43 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Smashchu on Mar 7, 2008 23:46:01 GMT -5
It is an insult to go around changing characters' movesets? Sakurai changed Mario's down special and Bowser's side special. I guess Mario and Bowser fans must be insulted but like it or not, Sakurai changed them nonetheless. Yes, ONE move. This does not mean he changes an entire characters set up. However, we look at ZZS and it reveals something. For ZZS, it makes sence. Samus can take her suit off; it was also something people really wanted to see. It's also something that would make more sence. Your Baby Mario/Yoshi idea, not so much. No one really wants Baby Mario, and it would not be a pleasant surprise. Then what is the point. Again, while more so then the former example, it's something people don't want, and don't care. If you look back, you'd see that some people were totally against the team, but no one was against Diddy alone. OK, this is the thing you miss. Just becuase it can work, doesn't mean it should (and I'll elaborate a bit more). People don't care about Baby Mario, and it's not needed. it also makes less senses then ZSS; additionally, they are not a contrast as Samus/ZSS are. Couldn't this just be done by a stage or music. Overall Warios (or OW becuase I'm lazy) is the same person as Wario. Unlike Toon Link, they were the same in every way. The only thing that could be truly different are the specials, and then your kind of making stuff out of thin air. Heck, Wario doesn't have many specials to draw, so you may have to do personality ones.Guess which ones those are? Yes, the farting and the biting. Heck, all of normal Wario's attacks are how OW would be. It's Wario. Mewtwo almost came back. This idea is really just one made out of thin air. It has no real backing, and it looking too far into the future. Lucario could very well be a very popular character and stay. You can not predict the next pokemon character. All attempts have failed. That line of thinking is flawed. it's just saying "It could happen; therefore, it will." There is no backing as to why (besides the fact it's possible and things change which are not concrete arguments) or even who. Just a blank statement. I would disagree with the specials. They don't dive into his personality. What sets him apart. Why is he different for using poison mushrooms. It doesn't capture Toad, it's just a general character. It would be unwise to add a character who is hated (with a passion) in a region (not top mention the one who buys the most copies) even though he's popular elsewhere. The purpose of adding the characters is that it is one people would like. So isn't Tingle contradictory? *facepalm* Meowth IS NOT POPULAR. There is a reason he is a pokeball. He is old. Outdated. Over the hill. Out of touch. An old timer. He offers nothing orriginal and doesn't even come close to the other guy's popularity. Not even Lucario's He is a character who was kind of popular in the day, but now has waned. He does not deserve a smash slot. Becuase it's out of style for an AC character to fight. While, yes, you could, but it's out of their character. Sure, it COULD happen, but it would hard to make a character who has an atmosphere of calm nd serenity (and this is shown a bit in their design) into a fighter. Your problem is you don't create characters people will like. You create list that are what you like, and how you think the game should have been. Lets look at some examples. OW. People hated the clones. While Fox, Falco, and Wolf are all different then a normal clone, they are still similar. However, it helps take the sting off when you realize they both fit and people like them. Wolf is a character that even skeptics can like if seen. OW is just you think should be in Smash. You feel that the WL games get shafted and you make a character so you feel better. But, the game doesn't need a whole characters when you have Wario. So what happens? You get Dr. Wario. A character who not only doesn't stand out (becuase he is the exact same person, down to a tee, as another) and no one wanted in the first place. He is not a good character. Now, sure, maybe you could justify him, but that doesn't mean he should be in. If we look at him in a full perspective: that he is unique, wanted, or people will like him at the end of the day, we see he is a bad character as he misses all three marks. In fact, all of them do. Meowth is not unique, wanted(very few people want him, and those are the ones who see that anime as important), and since he misses the first two and lacks a unique personality, he fails the third (NOTE:For pokemon, they really need to hit 1 and 2). Baby Mario fails are three, as does Dixie. They are not good characters. What your doing is throwing out ideas and see which one sticks. Your not thinking the characters though. Your not seeing how they might make the game better or worse. You are to busy justifying them. If they were truly great additions, then you would not have to do all this justification. They would be understood as a great idea once you told everyone what you idea is. Look at the characters as a whole, as your roster. Make sure what you add is something people cringe at (I'm really looking at OW). |
|
|
|
Post by Game Guru on Mar 8, 2008 4:37:00 GMT -5
Smashchu summed up my thoughts...
So Jigglypuff needs a tank shaped like her!
|
|
|
|
Post by Flip on Mar 8, 2008 10:37:05 GMT -5
So on the topic of 3rd party characters, who do we all think would be the best and most likely contenders?
Mega Man would be numero uno if we were sure Capcom were on board. Inafune sounded like he was upset he never heard from Nintendo, and I would imagine he has some pull even if he isn't director of the series much longer. Mega Man, like Sonic, would come in his most classic form with some vintage attacks, a vintage stage, and lots of ripped tracks from his older games. I was thinking something like: Mega Buster, Master Weapon (random), Rush Coil OR Shoryuken, Mega Slide, and Hyper Mega Man OR Rush Adaptor for his FS. His stage could be Wily's Fortress with lots of cool cameos, Robot Master tracks, and, of course, a remixed medley of the Mega Man 2 and 3 theme music. His Assist would be either Protoman or Beat. His costumes would be all the more popular Master combinations (red and white, for one); his emblem would be a Mega Man helmet.
I think the next most likely is Bomberman. Hudson has been absorbed into Konami and if Konami's on with Snake for a second bout I think we can expect Hudson characters to pop up as well. After all, Konami/Hudson made the Smash clone Dreammix TV. Bomberman would fight with, duh, bombs! All his specials would be involved in tossing, charging, kicking, and placing bombs. His FS would either be Hopper (giving him a "mount") or a gigantic bomb that devastates the screen. I can see his stage being like the one in Dreammix TV where it was a Bomberman Battlefield that players could leap around and destroy obstacles to meet each other (you can already make one like this in Stage Builder). Music is your typical mix of Bomberman tracks, including the eponymous Bomberman NES Theme as a remix. Assist... either Max, Hopper, or Pommy (who would be my personal choice). His costumes would, obviously, be all the Bomber colors he's had to pick from over the years; his emblem would be a bomb with a lit fuse.
If Konami is still involved and brings Hudson with them, there are two other characters I can think of: Simon Belmont and Bonk. Simon would be a fantastic retro character to enter the fray, though he would have his most recent style be his central appearance. I can see him using the whip for some slow but strong A moves and the daggers, crystal, cross boomerang, holy water, item crash, and other stuff for his specials. His stage would, of course, be Castlevania itself and be a fine replacement for Luigi's Mansion in my mind. The music would include the famous Vampire Killer track alongside a slew of others: Wicked Child, Monster Dance, Dwelling of Doom, Mad Forest, Clockwork, Bloodlines, Reincarnated Souls, and, of course, Bloody Tears. Castlevania Assists have a lot of potentials: Soma Cruz, Trevor Belmont, Death, Alucard, Maria, Richter, Dracula himself, etc. etc. Simon's colors would include the classic Simon w/ the brown armor and blond hair; his emblem the Castlevania bat.
As for Bonk, I can see him playing a lot like a "wild boy." He would have headbutts and biting attacks primarily, but also the ability to transform into Butthead Bonk, Kronk, and all those others. His stage would be 65,000,000 BC or something along those lines with giant dinosaurs to dodge and volcanoes dotting the background. Music would be variable, including the familiar Bonk's Adventure main theme but also stuff from Super Bonk and, strangely, other Hudson games (Milon's Secret Castle and Adventure Island come to mind). Bonk Assists could be stuff like King Drool or the female "PC Kid." Color swaps are simple; emblem would be one of the happy face coins.
Now the last one I will cover is Pac-Man because a lot of people actually expected him to appear. He would be Namco's addition and although I personally think Klonoa is just as likely it just wouldn't have the same punch that old Pac would. Pac-Man would fight using skills similar to Sonic in that his moves and specials are based on more vintage games than his newer ones. I'm thinking maybe a dashing Pac-Roll, an aimable Pac-Slingshot, the Pac-Bounce for an attack, and maybe an attack where he uses his bungee cord or hang glider to recover? His FS would be the ever-popular Power Pellet where all other players turn blue and Pac-Man becomes a free-roaming pixelated version of himself, able to KO with no problem at all. I think an easy Pac-Man stage would be an 8-bit maze just like the arcade game with ghosts roaming about and collectable food for health. Assists could be Ms. Pac-Man, the four ghosts, or something more random like Taizo from Dig-Dug or the Galaga. Color swaps would be like Sonic's where he just gets tints and his shoes/gloves are what change colors; his emblem would be the Pac-Man "pie."
|
|
|
|
Post by TV Eye on Mar 8, 2008 10:51:56 GMT -5
Yeah um...no.
I don't think Bonk has a very high chance. Few people know who he is.
|
|
|
|
Post by Arcadenik on Mar 8, 2008 11:04:46 GMT -5
Yeah um...no. I don't think Bonk has a very high chance. Few people know who he is. I would agree with you if the Wii didn't have the Virtual Console. |
|
|
|
Post by Wildcat on Mar 8, 2008 11:10:25 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind Meowth being playable, for the record. I don't expect him to be, but I would be fairly happy if he was.
I had Bonk in my old Brawl article about potential third pary offerings, but TV Eye has a valid point. He'd be an odd choice compared to other characters Konami/Hudson could offer (i.e. Simon Belmont and Bomberman).
|
|
|
|
Post by Manspeed on Mar 8, 2008 11:24:41 GMT -5
Hopper? His name is Louie, Flip.
And I want Bomberman in the game solely because his trophy and sticker collection had a lot of potential. The Bomberman series has a rich and bizarre history that a lot of people don't really know about (probably even in Japan).
|
|
|
|
Post by Smashchu on Mar 8, 2008 11:35:34 GMT -5
Honestly Flip, none of them. If we look back, Megaman was the only one to stand out in popularity. No one really asked for Pac-Man or Bonk so them appearing is unlikely.
As a tip:Do not get hung up on third party characters. Like I said, Sonic made it in late, and his popularity was probably 10x more then all of those characters combined. We don't have to have another third party character and there isn't a guaranteed there will be one. The focus is Nintendo. Even with third party characters, they were still greatly outclasses by the Nintendo content.
Third party characters are not thrown into smash like the characters from Nintendo, and a lot of you forget this. Thios is evident as some of the reasons why a third party character should be in is the same as a Nintendo character.
I feel like I'm talking to brick walls sometimes. I know people would like them and all, but it seems they don't think it though. They just slap on what character they would like and roll with it, and try to add as many as they can. Third party characters are guest.
But, to sum it up, here's the deal. The only ones who will be added are going to be the ones who are emiersly popular. And I mean Sonic popular. With Megaman not even coming close to Sonic's popularity, he stands a small chance of making, and this doesn't boad well for the others. Nintendo will only add the ones people really really want. As of now, unless something else happens where one gets added, Megaman is the only one who stand any chance, and since he's only wanted by a set group of people (not the fans as a whole) he doesn't stand a good chance.
|
|
|
|
Post by Captain Walrus on Mar 8, 2008 13:47:31 GMT -5
Pac-Man is not on the same level as Bonk. Pac-Man, if not popular, is immensely famous. Pac-Man in a future Smash Bros. is a real possibility. As is Mega-Man, given that he is a lot more popular than you apparently think. Maybe you had to be super-popular like Sonic to be in the first class of third-parties, but next Smash will have the second class of third-parties.
|
|
|
|
Post by Flip on Mar 8, 2008 15:46:26 GMT -5
Honestly Flip, none of them. If we look back, Megaman was the only one to stand out in popularity. No one really asked for Pac-Man or Bonk so them appearing is unlikely. As a tip:Do not get hung up on third party characters. Like I said, Sonic made it in late, and his popularity was probably 10x more then all of those characters combined. We don't have to have another third party character and there isn't a guaranteed there will be one. The focus is Nintendo. Even with third party characters, they were still greatly outclasses by the Nintendo content. Third party characters are not thrown into smash like the characters from Nintendo, and a lot of you forget this. Thios is evident as some of the reasons why a third party character should be in is the same as a Nintendo character. I feel like I'm talking to brick walls sometimes. I know people would like them and all, but it seems they don't think it though. They just slap on what character they would like and roll with it, and try to add as many as they can. Third party characters are guest. But, to sum it up, here's the deal. The only ones who will be added are going to be the ones who are emiersly popular. And I mean Sonic popular. With Megaman not even coming close to Sonic's popularity, he stands a small chance of making, and this doesn't boad well for the others. Nintendo will only add the ones people really really want. As of now, unless something else happens where one gets added, Megaman is the only one who stand any chance, and since he's only wanted by a set group of people (not the fans as a whole) he doesn't stand a good chance. I wasn't saying they HAD to be in the game. Are you trying to kill all creativity now? Christ... |
|
|
|
Post by Smashchu on Mar 8, 2008 17:05:26 GMT -5
Honestly Flip, none of them. If we look back, Megaman was the only one to stand out in popularity. No one really asked for Pac-Man or Bonk so them appearing is unlikely. As a tip:Do not get hung up on third party characters. Like I said, Sonic made it in late, and his popularity was probably 10x more then all of those characters combined. We don't have to have another third party character and there isn't a guaranteed there will be one. The focus is Nintendo. Even with third party characters, they were still greatly outclasses by the Nintendo content. Third party characters are not thrown into smash like the characters from Nintendo, and a lot of you forget this. Thios is evident as some of the reasons why a third party character should be in is the same as a Nintendo character. I feel like I'm talking to brick walls sometimes. I know people would like them and all, but it seems they don't think it though. They just slap on what character they would like and roll with it, and try to add as many as they can. Third party characters are guest. But, to sum it up, here's the deal. The only ones who will be added are going to be the ones who are emiersly popular. And I mean Sonic popular. With Megaman not even coming close to Sonic's popularity, he stands a small chance of making, and this doesn't boad well for the others. Nintendo will only add the ones people really really want. As of now, unless something else happens where one gets added, Megaman is the only one who stand any chance, and since he's only wanted by a set group of people (not the fans as a whole) he doesn't stand a good chance. I wasn't saying they HAD to be in the game. Are you trying to kill all creativity now? Christ... Like I said, none are likely, but reading from your post, a lot of your reason were the same that have been said for similar Nintendo characters. Of course, you didn't say they had to be, so I apologize. My beef is that everyone becomes so focused and sure that there will be more third parties, but the truth is, that we got fewer then we all expected. |
|
|
|
Post by Game Guru on Mar 8, 2008 21:49:55 GMT -5
Honestly Flip, none of them. If we look back, Megaman was the only one to stand out in popularity. No one really asked for Pac-Man or Bonk so them appearing is unlikely. As a tip:Do not get hung up on third party characters. Like I said, Sonic made it in late, and his popularity was probably 10x more then all of those characters combined. We don't have to have another third party character and there isn't a guaranteed there will be one. The focus is Nintendo. Even with third party characters, they were still greatly outclasses by the Nintendo content. Third party characters are not thrown into smash like the characters from Nintendo, and a lot of you forget this. Thios is evident as some of the reasons why a third party character should be in is the same as a Nintendo character. I feel like I'm talking to brick walls sometimes. I know people would like them and all, but it seems they don't think it though. They just slap on what character they would like and roll with it, and try to add as many as they can. Third party characters are guest. But, to sum it up, here's the deal. The only ones who will be added are going to be the ones who are emiersly popular. And I mean Sonic popular. With Megaman not even coming close to Sonic's popularity, he stands a small chance of making, and this doesn't boad well for the others. Nintendo will only add the ones people really really want. As of now, unless something else happens where one gets added, Megaman is the only one who stand any chance, and since he's only wanted by a set group of people (not the fans as a whole) he doesn't stand a good chance. I'd like to point out that no one really wanted Snake in Brawl, and yet he got in because Kojima wanted him in MELEE. All Capcom and Namco would have to do is be a little proactive. I'm willing to bet that during the development of Mario & Sonic, the Sega guys asked the Nintendo guys if Sonic could be in Brawl, and the Nintendo guys said, "Hell yes, we'll delay the game for you just to have Sonic in it!" I'd expect that if Konami and Sega were happy with it, they might throw in more characters, and considering Konami owns Hudson's butt, if Konami is happy with it, Hudson is too! As far as Capcom and Namco... they would again, have to be proactive, and I don't think they will... Namco just can't see Pac-Man fighting, even if it is against Mario, Link, and Sonic. And Capcom seems to be more protective of their franchises, even WHEN they manage crossovers, so I don't see them getting either Mega Man or Ryu in without compensation in some part. I figure the rules for getting into Smash is pretty much being a fairly iconic character and being willing to BE in Smash, and Simon Belmont, Mega Man, Pac-Man, and Bomberman have got the iconic part down. Pac-Man is even as iconic as Sonic, just from a different video game era. Sonic was only desired because of the required fight with Mario. If we required characters to be around Sonic's level of popularity, only Cloud and Master Chief would have a shot. Square Enix is a jerk about their copyrights (Otherwise, we would've gotten "Beware the Forest's Mushrooms" as a Mario Series Song), and I don't see Microsoft loaning their icon to Nintendo until one of them is out of the console business. |
|
|
|
Post by Savage Adam on Mar 8, 2008 22:45:02 GMT -5
However, we look at ZZS and it reveals something. For ZZS, it makes sence. Samus can take her suit off; it was also something people really wanted to see.  |
|
|
|
Post by Manspeed on Mar 9, 2008 0:32:53 GMT -5
I hate to say this, but I want you guys to know that once I receive Brawl tomorrow (or today since it's after midnight here), don't expect to see me here too often. I'll be too busy playing the hell out of Brawl. I will return though, so make no mistake about that.
|
|
