|
|
Post by chuckquizmo on Mar 14, 2008 17:14:38 GMT -5
Basically, even though it would be significantly smaller than Brawl, it would take all the most popular rejected ideas (Geno, Isaac, Ridley) and put them to use instead. but then they'd be automatically targeting it at a much smaller audience. it's like saying "hey, we don't really want to make money!" So, by putting unwanted characters (Wolf, R.O.B.) and obscure characters (Pit, Lucas, IC, etc) they were appealing to a big audience, but by putting in well-known fan-favourites (Ridley, Ray, K.Rool, Megaman etc) they're appealing to a niche audience? I think you'll find that actually, the popular ideas sell more. :3 |
|
|
|
Post by Dances in Undergarments on Mar 14, 2008 18:52:43 GMT -5
With the exception of Megaman, your "Well known fan favourites" are neither well known, nor fan favourites. Only a small group of internet fanboys are desperate for these characters, and these dudes are buying the game anyway.
|
|
|
|
Post by mopinks on Mar 15, 2008 5:52:31 GMT -5
^yeah, what he said.
don't get me wrong, I love obscure characters, but all the characters who made it into Brawl were popular and highly requested. honestly, the only odd point I see as far as character popularity is concerned (which doesn't really even matter, since Sakurai said from the beginning that it wasn't a popularity contest) is Wolf getting a spot instead of Krystal, but, you know, he was still a popular and highly requested character anyway.
|
|
|
|
Post by nocturnal YL on Mar 15, 2008 7:52:22 GMT -5
People who are saying Smash DS is impossible, look at Jump Super Stars and Jump! Ultimate Stars. They are sprite-based (and well done at it), including over 60-something characters (iirc) and plays extremely well as a fighter. This game proves that Smash CAN be on the DS and is completely possible. JSS is not Smabro. JSS doesn't have this many moves. Do you know why New SMB used 3D models? Because they were too dang lazy to sprite everything. Correct. |
|
|
|
Post by Luke Groundwalker on Mar 15, 2008 8:24:45 GMT -5
JSS is not Smabro. JSS doesn't have this many moves. What does that have to do with anything? Hell, even putting aside the JSS series, there's NOTHING, I mean NOTHING to suggest SSB is impossible on the DS period. |
|
|
|
Post by TV Eye on Mar 15, 2008 9:11:46 GMT -5
I'd rather 3D models. I'm sick of the DS using 2D sprites. People say graphics aren't everything,but times have changed. That's why NSMB was (semi) 3D. To show its been ten-fucking-years since the original.
|
|
|
|
Post by Spud on Mar 15, 2008 12:34:16 GMT -5
I'd rather 3D models. I'm sick of the DS using 2D sprites. People say graphics aren't everything,but times have changed. That's why NSMB was (semi) 3D. To show its been ten-wizzleing-years since the original. But the DS's 3D Sucks bigtime. NSMB Mario and Luigi look like crap. And SM64DS's Bowser also is lousy. But, how can you say it didn't save that much space? Do you know what the difference actually is? How can you assert a claim like that without knowing what the difference actually was? Because I'm a God thats why.  |
|
|
|
Post by TV Eye on Mar 15, 2008 13:01:18 GMT -5
I'd rather 3D models. I'm sick of the DS using 2D sprites. People say graphics aren't everything,but times have changed. That's why NSMB was (semi) 3D. To show its been ten-wizzleing-years since the original. But the DS's 3D Sucks bigtime. NSMB Mario and Luigi look like crap. And SM64DS's Bowser also is lousy. I thought they looked good, and the Bowser in SM64DS was a great render! better than in M64. At least he was recognizable. I feel that the DS should be a portable N64, and most N64 games had 3D graphics. |
|
|
|
Post by chuckquizmo on Mar 15, 2008 19:01:41 GMT -5
With the exception of Megaman, your "Well known fan favourites" are neither well known, nor fan favourites. Only a small group of internet fanboys are desperate for these characters, and these dudes are buying the game anyway. Bad examples perhaps, but they're still more well-known and requested than Wolf, Pit or The Ice Climbers. |
|
|
|
Post by Smashchu on Mar 15, 2008 21:12:03 GMT -5
With the exception of Megaman, your "Well known fan favourites" are neither well known, nor fan favourites. Only a small group of internet fanboys are desperate for these characters, and these dudes are buying the game anyway. Actually, Megaman would fall into the group you described. He is a character that is liked by a group of people and not wanted as a whole. However, this is the majority of characters. The sales for Golden Sun were on a similar line to Pikmin. Pikmin sold 2.7 million total, while GS sold over 2million (The Lost Ages doesn't have sales from VGchartz besides Japan, but since it gets in a 1.9million range, US and Europe sales would round it up). So, Pikmin isn't that much more popular then GS. In fact, in a poll on Smashboards Issac was the most requested character for the next SSB game. Ridley is also a character a lot of people want (even the Japanese). Ask around and people will want him. Geno is one who is also heavily suggested. He is quite popular amounst Smash Fans and has a strong following. This is all you really need. We could also say Ike is a character few people wanted. FE is a game that is a small fanbase (same with Mother) so any character from that franchise is just wanted by a loyal group of fans. Especially as his game sold less then .2million in Japan. Quite low huh? Not every character is going to be widely suggested. It's not fesable. Everyone wants their characters so making a balance roster is taking a lot of those minor suggestions (as you put it) and mending them together. |
|
|
|
Post by mopinks on Mar 16, 2008 0:06:52 GMT -5
Bad examples perhaps, but they're still more well-known and requested than Wolf, Pit or The Ice Climbers. if not for the huge fan demand, Pit wouldn't even be in the game. the Ice Climbers are in there as representatives of the Famicom launch lineup, so their specific popularity isn't an issue. and Wolf... is actually a very popular and highly-requested character, for some reason. don't ask me! also, I said this up there, but it bears repeating: Sakurai explicitly said the roster wouldn't be based on popularity alone.the problem now is that all of the unquestionably popular characters are in the game, leaving a huge lot of semi-popular secondary characters to choose from for future games. no matter which semi-popular secondary character they put in the game, the fanbase of some other semi-popular secondary character is going to get the shaft. plus, internet fandom isn't really a good indicator of a character's actual relevance anyway. gaming forums are swarming with Geno fans, but in the real world, who do you think has a better chance of being recognized by the average person: Geno or Wolf? Smash Bros isn't a game made purely for hardcore gaming nerds. it's a casual system-seller, too. |
|
|
|
Post by Smashchu on Mar 16, 2008 0:58:51 GMT -5
Bad examples perhaps, but they're still more well-known and requested than Wolf, Pit or The Ice Climbers. if not for the huge fan demand, Pit wouldn't even be in the game. the Ice Climbers are in there as representatives of the Famicom launch lineup, so their specific popularity isn't an issue. and Wolf... is actually a very popular and highly-requested character, for some reason. don't ask me! also, I said this up there, but it bears repeating: Sakurai explicitly said the roster wouldn't be based on popularity alone.You make a good point. Of course, the idea is the character needs to be liked. This is something Geno can do. In a similar sence, a lot of people don't know who Pit is, but he is a character that people will like. He has the air and design to him, and the old school fans will appreciate the nod. Geno falls into a similar case. Of course, it is something to ponder on. Would someone be alienated with his presence. Of course, it would be nice to get a character from the Mario RPGs. Again, another good point. But, there are characters like Goroh and King K Rool who are popular secondary characters (or at least, thrust into it). The end result may be that some characters will become popular over time. True. of course, I remember back at E3 2006 when Adam Sessler said "But we are wondering what is up with the obscured characters. I mean: Meta-Knight from the Kirby series?" (or something along those lines). It's a tough one. I think that in the end of the day, it would depend on which character(s) emerge to be the most popular. |
|
|
|
Post by nocturnal YL on Mar 16, 2008 4:25:43 GMT -5
What does that have to do with anything? Hell, even putting aside the JSS series, there's NOTHING, I mean NOTHING to suggest SSB is impossible on the DS period. Nor did I say Smash Bros DS is impossible. But the DS's 3D Sucks bigtime. NSMB Mario and Luigi look like crap. And SM64DS's Bowser also is lousy. You never played anything made by Square did you? True. of course, I remember back at E3 2006 when Adam Sessler said "But we are wondering what is up with the obscured characters. I mean: Meta-Knight from the Kirby series?" (or something along those lines). It's a tough one. I think that in the end of the day, it would depend on which character(s) emerge to be the most popular. Thing #1, I don't think MK is obscure (and so I don't agree with that guy or my/his English is pretty bad); thing #2, it's Sakurai's game and MK is his favourite Kirby character. |
|
|
|
Post by Fryguy64 on Mar 16, 2008 5:22:41 GMT -5
I can't believe I'm going to have to say this again:
All of Nintendo's most popular and well-known heroes were in SSB64. And even then, they had Captain Falcon, Ness and (at the time) Samus, who were somewhat more obscure. They've simply had to get MORE obscure as time goes on - roping in secondary characters and more obscure heroes.
We simply can't argue this point. We know too much about Nintendo. We're too close to it. We have forgotten not everyone knows who Kirby is, what Golden Sun is, etc.
|
|
|
|
Post by chuckquizmo on Mar 16, 2008 6:41:20 GMT -5
I can't believe I'm going to have to say this again: All of Nintendo's most popular and well-known heroes were in SSB64. And even then, they had Captain Falcon, Ness and (at the time) Samus, who were somewhat more obscure. They've simply had to get MORE obscure as time goes on - roping in secondary characters and more obscure heroes. We simply can't argue this point. We know too much about Nintendo. We're too close to it. We have forgotten not everyone knows who Kirby is, what Golden Sun is, etc. You bring up an interesting point actually. Let's say Smash Bros. is to become an ongoing series, with one game per generation. How could they possibly keep the roster fresh? With each sequel they are exhausting alot of popular characters, and with each sequel, the team need to provide an even larger ratio of newcomers to veterans. But where will they have to draw the line? They can only last so long before we start seeing people like Wart, Midna and Waluigi on the roster; after exhausting popular primary characters and secondary characters, unwanted side-characters is all they have left. What then? |
|
