What could have been (critism on SSBB)

[TV Eye]

rukifellth said:

why that dick-head IKE?! He's just another Marth with spiky hair! >_<

Demille can suck my balls.

See? I can be immature too

[Sqrt2]

Here's my take: *promises not to go on about Sonic's inclusion*

First of all, although I welcome the large selection of music in this game I'd prefer it if they didn't remix the tracks at all (except possibly the GB tracks- they probably needed remixing). The DKC tracks in particular only vaguely sounded like the originals and are horrible in comparison.

I'd have like to have seen K.Rool included as either an AT or a boss in the SSE, and more nintendo-esque baddies (octorocks, kremlings, re-deads etc) in the SSE.

I fail to see why they couldn't have included some of the N64 stages (I'd have like to seen Saffron City and Hyrule Castle included) and why they included Corneria and Pokemon Stadium from Melee, confounds me no end.

I'd have liked to see Roy, Dr. Mario and Mewtwo in there. Surely, if Fox and Link can have a clone [or two in the case of Fox], why can't Mario and Marth have one? (Yes, I know Roy was only included to advertise FE6, but even so...)? Also, I'd have liked it if Toon Link had fire arrows (like Y Link did in melee) or his Deku Leaf to separate him from Link.

I'm sad that a couple of characters were 'nerfed' from melee.

Also, I'm not too happy about the loss of the red shell and that there aren't so many pokeball pokemon this time around (as well as the fact that there are only 29 AT's in the game).

The masterpieces are a complete waste of disc space if you ask me. The only one I don't have is F-Zero, but since you only get 40 seconds of playtime (which is not enough time to complete one lap) it's still pretty much useless (although I concede that not all people that have Brawl have played these games).

Oh and one last thing: The fact that I haven't got to play it yet (as well as the release still being TBA).

*prepares himself for the inevitable backlash*

[kirbychu]

sqrt2 said:

First of all, although I welcome the large selection of music in this game I'd prefer it if they didn't remix the tracks at all (except possibly the GB tracks- they probably needed remixing).

I actually wish MORE of the tracks were remixed. Original music's great, but if I want to Brawl to that, I'll just turn off the game's music and put on the original game's soundtrack. If there were no remixes... well, I certainly wouldn't have downloaded the soundtrack, that's for sure.

In fact, Sega Superstars Tennis took that route. All the music is from the original games, completely unchanged. Very dull.

[Flip]

About the Masterpieces, the time is not my largest gripe. 2 minutes on Mario World is stupid because you only get to sample one lousy level, two if you're good. 40 seconds on F-Zero? Not even a lap. Donkey Kong, for chrissake, gives you just enough time to MAYBE get to the top girder. It's pretentious to call them Masterpieces, downright vile to not let you even play the game for enough time to really appreciate it.

But this is even worse. I don't know who came up with the idea to make them demos, or even include them on the disc. Sakurai can't be that evil, right? See, the games are actually THERE. People who hacked the disc found the full copies of Star Fox, Donkey Kong, Mario 2, etc. etc. But because Nintendo has the VC service where you actually pay for the games, they only let you play snippets--they programmed in in a timer feature. So while you did purchase the entirety of, say, Super Metroid with Brawl, you are not allowed to play the full game. That, in my opinion, is a major waste of disc space. You need to either go the full ten yards or not at all. If I was able to play Brawl, cut out for a bit to race a few in F-Zero, bust out my moves in Kid Icarus, then go back to a battle? Brawl would have jumped up a whole new level in my mind. It would have truly become a great collection of Nintendo memories.

If they really wanted us to pay for these, why not charge 60 bucks for the game and you get to select the games you want to play as full and which ones get to be demos? Or, better yet, actually do something where you get Wii Points for making purchases (there's a novel idea!) that you can put towards the games. How about Wii Points you win in Smash by unlocking achievements? Or how about, simply, we can just pay for the full game right from Smash? Include a prompt for the Wii Shop Channel, then once we buy we get it on the Wii and accessible via Smash? It would be a faster download anyways, seeing as it's right on the goddamn disc.

Finally: why didn't we get Fire Emblem and Earthbound? Wtf NOA? You pieces of hobo. You do some things wonderfully, and everything else is piss >:/

[Fryguy64]

Sqrt, you touch upon some unique criticisms there. I don't agree with them all, of course, but I salute you for not just saying the same as everyone else! ;D

The music is a strange beast. The retro remixes are fantastic, and I adore the X tunnel theme more and more with each listen (it's now overtaken The Killers in my iPod most-played). But most of the remixes are excellent - Donkey Kong and Kirby were a little disappointing.

Much of the music from new games wasn't remixed, but torn straight from the games though.

[Dances in Undergarments]

fliptroopa said:

If I was able to play Brawl, cut out for a bit to race a few in F-Zero, bust out my moves in Kid Icarus, then go back to a battle? Brawl would have jumped up a whole new level in my mind. It would have truly become a great collection of Nintendo memories.

Uh.... whats the difference between doing this through Brawl and buying F-Zero on VC, Kid Icarus on VC, and Brawl and just swapping between them through the Wii menu? Well, yes, other than the fact you have to pay for the VC games, but you can't honestly expect Nintendo, who are a business, to give away these games for free when they're selling them at the same time. And regardless of the implementation (I would have gone for a set number of stages rather than a set amount of time for most game demos), the demo idea is a good one, and since Nintendo are too dumb to allow you to actually download demos like a normal video game company would, putting it on their biggest release makes a lot of sense.

The waste of space argument is a valid one, but other than that, I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, and why you're complaining. I mean, I could make an argument that Brawl doesn't cook me toast when it totally should, too. But I'm sure we'd agree thats pretty retarded. Even though it definitely should. Toaster functions for SSB4.

[Fryguy64]

Maybe Nintendo IS planning to make the full games unlockable at some point in the future with some kind of unlock service. Bit pointless for me, as I own all the games in one form or another (usually as carts).

On Earthbound, turns out NoA is having a lot of legal problems with it right now thanks to all the cultural references. No idea if NCL is having the same problems - but note how Mother 2 isn't on the Japanese VC yet either, so presumably they are. NoA is likely a lot more fidgety.

And for 40 seconds or whatever it is - is it really worth getting a translation team to work on Fire Emblem?

[Flip]

All I'm saying is that it was pointless to include it on the disc if it's not even worth playing the demos in any form. It's a curiosity if anything, and if they wanted us to to get a taste for the game to grab our interest they should have thrown videos of the games on disc. It would have been far simpler. Having barely playable demos just seems like a cocktease to me, and I don't like cockteases.

And yes, "you can buy the VC games LOL." I've heard that before. And the games aren't even that much space on the disc, in reality. But they could have at least given you more time to sample them so that you can actually get somewhere and think: "wow, I need to buy this." I already own most of these games or have beaten them, but I would have enjoyed a little 10 minute romp through Planet Zebes to bring me back. Just getting a snippet makes me wonder if it was even worth it to go through Smash, and I just pop on my emulator and go at it.

It's the principle of it all, and I would like to think I'm not alone in this sentiment.

[8bitretroshit]

Popping up to say that the demo thing isn't really pointless as I couldn't decide wheter or not I should download Super Metroid. The trial has a saved file that starts you off in some cave with a lot of the weapons already unlocked. Since I never played longer then a hour I was all 'woah that's pretty rad' and exploring untill the timer ran out. 3 minutes seemed pretty long actually. Anyway it got me pretty curious and it made me download.... Metroid. Because I wanna beat the NES one first.
It's pretty neat exploring and discovering hidden passages yourself without any dumb guide. I guess I finally see the game's charm.

Anyway a checkpoint style trial might've been better, but that would mean extra work for a pretty small feature. And by extra work I mean a later release date. Why change or remove a game's content if you can just slap a time limit on it?

[Deleted]

While I'm not a fan of the time restrictions put in on the Masterpieces, I think it is about high time Nintendo started dealing demos. 8Bit is a prime example of somebody who benefits from what the Masterpieces can deliver, and I gotta say I'm riding alongside him...while I complained a bit about the Donkey Kong Masterpiece in the Secrets topic, I have to say that I have never before been compelled to download it for my Virtual Console. Now I am, and so I'll probably do it soon as I get my mitts on some more Wii Points.

Let's see, though...

• I have to agree on the point of not enough pre-established Nintendo minions/too many original enemies in the Subspace Emissary, but for a couple reasons. Sure, the nostalgia and familiarity are huge factors (whalloping Spearows instead of Auroros or Moblins instead of Sword Primids would have been loads of fun), but the main reason is that a lot of enemies in SSE are unnecessarily frustrating to combat, especially in large numbers or confined spaces, both of which happen frequently. I hate getting gangbanged by a pair of Buckots, a Sword Primid and a Boom Primid when I'm just trying to go somewhere, and then wind up losing a life not twenty seconds after entering a room...so, better to be frustrated by enemies I'm familiar with. If it were Space Pirates, I'd be a bit more lenient with them. (Not like the original content is unwelcome, mind you - like I said ages ago, SSB is very much its own franchise now and deserves to flaunt its own identity.)
  
• On the above note, I do think more pre-established bosses would have been nice, as well. While I have no problem with half of the game's boss characters being original to SSB (despite my utter hatred for Duon, for being a cheap, overpowered butt-for-butt), having to go toe-to-toe with an Empress Bulblax, or Kracko, or Dr. Robotnik would have been loads of fun. (And would have made Boss Crush all the more worthwhile, no matter how much harder it got.)
  
• Aside from Young Link, I don't feel like any Melee characters should have been cut from the roster, especially since we still have clones. I mean, I'm fine with Brawl's selection of characters as it stands - I'm even coming to accept Lucario - but making cuts in the first place seems pointless with Lucas/Falco/Wolf/etc. around. (Young Link is the exception due to Toon Link being the contemporary equivalent of the same character.)
  
• I would have loved if Wolf and Toon Link had a role in the Subspace Emissary. D: They totally could have fit. (I'm not so bothered by Jigglypuff's lack of inclusion, however.)
  
• More balance for trophies/levels/etc., same old opinion here. I'd have preferred less focus on old levels and more on newcoming levels, if only to have more for Kirby, Star Fox and F-Zero.
  
• I also would have liked if the majority of recent music had been remixed, rather than ripped straight from their games of origin; Super Mario Sunshine and Wind Waker music, in particular, is fine from a distance, but you can really hear how synthetic it is when you're wearing headphones. Orchestrated versions of Ricco Harbor, Molgera's Theme and Dream Chaser would have been fucking wintastic ;D
  
• There's no way to enlarge smaller stickers so you can look at them more clearly; there's a Count Bleck sticker that is teeeeeeny tiny as hell that's great if I want a +7 Fire Resistance and have enough room to stick him somewhere...but I want to actually be able to see it, since it's so small that all the details are really hard to make out.

That's really it; SSE, despite its flaws, is still pretty fun. The sticker system is awesome - I've pimped Toon Link out to a point where he can one-hit KO most enemies with most attacks, so only bosses and guys like Towtow or Bytan (who have extensive health) can stand up to him.

[kirbychu]

What exactly is everyone's problem with Lucario, anyway?

[Spud]

kirbychu said:

What exactly is everyone's problem with Lucario, anyway?

He's um... he's... not Mewtwo. Then again he's not Pichu either.

[Deleted]

What Spudderkins said, really. I've got heavy Gen1 Bias when it comes to Pokémon (which isn't to say I don't love the other Generations, or at least moderately like them in the case of Gen2), and it's just my personal opinion that Mewtwo is far more awesomer than Lucario.

But again, just my opinion - nothing more than that, really.

[kirbychu]

Ah, fair enough. Lucario is my overall favourite Pokémon, so I'm quite happy having him there.

I guess it mostly comes down to the fact that... well, people don't watch Pokémon movies any more. Shame, because Lucario's movie was far and away the best in the entire series. At least in it's Japanese form, before the ending had all it's meaning removed by 4Kids...

[Fryguy64]

sgtmajorkururu said:

I also would have liked if the majority of recent music had been remixed, rather than ripped straight from their games of origin; Super Mario Sunshine and Wind Waker music, in particular, is fine from a distance, but you can really hear how synthetic it is when you're wearing headphones. Orchestrated versions of Ricco Harbor, Molgera's Theme and Dream Chaser would have been wizzleing wintastic ;D

I actually have two playlists for the Brawl soundtrack on my iTunes now. There's the complete list with all of the songs as they appear on the NinDB SSBB music guide (after shuffling them from their original locations) and then there's the "Best of Brawl" playlist.

This second playlist is made up of my favourite remixes, with one exception. The Molgera Battle made it in there! It's just such an awesome song