What could have been (critism on SSBB)

[TV Eye]

boodestroyer said:

KH is "Nintendo-like" because of it trying to be like Disney's answer to Smash Bros. in certain ways (it even uses world icons like Smash does, for crying out loud!). But I'll admit, I enjoyed it for the Disney stuff. I just went all "yawn snore etc." whenever I saw any freaking Final Fantasy character at all.

Sure, RPG's are boring, and I get bored playing Final Fantasy games, but I still don't know why people hate Kingdom Hearts...
It was more of an action game any way...

I don't really know how to express myself here in words, but I'll try...

The cross between Final Fantasy and Disney pissed a lot of people off. It pissed off all those "hardcore FF players" and apparently it pissed off you guys (no one in particular, just certain people that have expressed their utter hatred for KH).

Now, what Nomura did was something never before seen. It was nothing compared to Smash Bros., which combined Nintendo's greatest All Stars, but instead mixed the two most unlikely, and different series ever. Heavy emphasis on ever.

I always thought it was a joke, and decided to buy it because of Nightmare Before Christmas. But after playing, I realized the true depth and genius of the game! I found nothing wrong with the FF characters, as they were fun (Selphie, Tidus, Wakka), energetic (Yuffie), and even comedic (Cid).

So, maybe I'm missing something?

[TrustTheFungus]

I've never been able to get into any of the Final Fantasy games, but I do enjoy the stories when I watched my sister play(Including 7). Kingdom hearts I really love because of the Disney characters, but there's so many things they did wrong with it. Here's a quote from an old post about what I didn't like in KH:

1.Gameplay. It's not bad, but it's just not that good either.
2.No focus on Disney. Sure, 99% of the time you are in a Disney world surrounded by Disney characters, but how many of these worlds/characters could be removed from the game and not affect the story at all? The only important Disney characters in the series were Maleficant, Donald, Goofy, Mickey, and a few others. Any scenes that actually added to the plot were filled with Final Fantasy or original characters.
3.Hardly any interaction between Disney characters from different worlds. It would be far more interesting to see how these different characters would act together. Some of the best scenes in KH2 were with Maleficant and Pete.
4.Not enough obscure/less popular stuff. I want to see some things that I won't expect. Chernabog in KH1 is a good example. But I wanted more. Like a Lambert summon or something.
5.Mini-games. I really wish Square would stop with the mini-games. Most are horrible.
6.Repeat visits. I saw Agrahba, Halloween Town, and Atlantica in KH1. Why not give me something new in KH2?

[8bitretroshit]

Look, FF7 itself isn't terribly awful. Series made the transition from 2D to 3D pretty well (making it memorable and boosting it's popularity, like Mario 64) and changing the usual medieval world into a futuristic mess worked out pretty well with it's, back then, flashy CGI cutscenes. The main guy was a douchebag girly-man, but that wasn't too bad because you had the Mr T partymember.

But those shit eating fans couldn't stop praising the game, comparing it's mediocre story to well-known novels and other retarded shit, and now Square keeps shitting out FF7 prequels and sequels and whateverquels where that dead bitch Aeris somehow pops up without fail. Oh and everybody has a black angel wing because that's so cool~

Basically the original wasn't that bad, but anybody who says they cried when blocky anime Aeris died needs to get shot.


Oh, right, I haven't played KH too much, but I remember it being a decent game, game-play wise. And it's always neat to see characters from different companies together. However I hate it when shit like this is thrown into the game just to please fangirls.

[Luke Groundwalker]

tveye said:

DAMN! You be heavy on the dissing, son!

Here's something I don't get. Why is it that FFVII is constantly scoring high on all those "Best Games Ever" awards, yet all I hear here is how bad it sucked, or how terrible the story was...?

It couldn't of been that bad

Say that to all the evil things in the world that get high scores in the same manner like Naruto.
[quote author=tveye board=ssb thread=1207449170 post=1207974882And why do so many Nintendo fanatics fans hate Kingdom Hearts? Why hate on a genuine, good game? Because it was on a Sony system?[/quote]
...No, don't think so. I'm not really a Nintendo fanatic even though I'm really into the whole mythology of Nintendo characters. Matter of fact my favorite system of last generation was the PS2 and for this one it's the 360.

In general, KH is just a bad series. You can basically win just about EVERYTHING, literally, by tapping X constantly. There's hardly any strategy involved, the controls (while it was improved in the second one) feel clunky as hell and lagging, etc. It just isn't a good game at all. And it doesn't help when you put a big whip cream of shitty story, plot, and characters.

Great concept, just a bad game series really. A Disney crossover should be a lot more epic.

[Fryguy64]

Okay, my views on this bizarre change in conversation, as I have played (and owned) FF7 and KH.

Final Fantasy 7

As someone who rates gameplay over story every time, I found FF7 to be an enjoyable RPG. It wasn't overcomplicated, and it was clear where you could save, whether you could survive a battle, etc. But this game is much more driven by its story, and the gameplay relies on it. When I played through this game, it was the first time I learned that I'm not a big fan of RPGs.

It scores high on best-ever lists because a lot of people are obsessed with game storylines. Truly obsessed. And for them, a great game is about the story being told. I couldn't care less. I was just smacking Materia on folks and telling Cloud to stab people with his insane sword.

It's being badmouthed because a) it's on PlayStation and b) because of mob mentality. It's a good RPG if you like RPGs. The story is a bit silly, but who cares?

Kingdom Hearts

I was so excited about this game before it was released that I downloaded the Japanese theme song to it. I thoroughly enjoyed it for a while, but I soon tired of the repetitive nature of the battles, and some of the locations were a bit bland. Oh, and you couldn't skip cut scenes, no matter how many times you watch them ("Ee-oo aa-aa, not Clayton!") Minor frustrations aside, it's also a good game, and I loved all the Disney references! But it just went on too long without enough variation in gameplay.

No idea why people are hating on this one. Maybe they are retarded.

^
That's how you do it, people! Actually play the games and have your own, well-thought-out opinions on them!

[TV Eye]

Thank you Fry (and various others who I'm to lazy to scroll up and see ).

Alright, discussion on Brawl, continue. Just forget about this whole side discussion. forgeeeeet...

[Spud]

I'm really fine with KH as I like Disney, (Walt Disney was one of the greatest men ever IMO) but Eisner and later Iger, couldn't care less about Disney Interactive Studios. If Walt was still alive I'm certain Disney would be one of the top game developers, probably even producers.

I'll have to start taking a look a Disney Interactive's Games again, though I have little hope for them at the moment.

[Deleted]

I actually fell on the "Like" side of "Lukewarm" when it comes to Kingdom Hearts. My biggest problems with the series have already been highlighted by Trust the Fungus:

2.No focus on Disney. Sure, 99% of the time you are in a Disney world surrounded by Disney characters, but how many of these worlds/characters could be removed from the game and not affect the story at all? The only important Disney characters in the series were Maleficant, Donald, Goofy, Mickey, and a few others. Any scenes that actually added to the plot were filled with Final Fantasy or original characters.
3.Hardly any interaction between Disney characters from different worlds. It would be far more interesting to see how these different characters would act together. Some of the best scenes in KH2 were with Maleficant and Pete.

Otherwise they were fun games and it let me interact with Nightmare Before Christmas and Pirates of the Carribean more directly than ever before, and KH2 introduced me to the godliness that is Tron, king of all B-movies. So far as gameplay is concerned, KH1 felt too platformy (which KH2 resolved), and both main games have a few issues with too many controls and not enough buttons, but those are minor points I'm willing to overlook. I just don't care for the plot's involvement of "Hearts"...to me, that's an intangible concept that's far too wide to interpretation to drive an entire game's story, especially one as big as Kingdom Hearts.

Which brings me to my own gripe with the franchise: the overuse of metaphor. While metaphor is an important part of literature and storytelling, and I don't mind it in video games, the overabundance of it causes a story to become soggy and deteriorate. Basically, Square has a problem "holding it in," so to speak, and due to the stinky, messy, insufferable nature of this problem, I call it metaphor diarrhea, something I've mentioned a few times in the past. I wouldn't mind if the Heart metaphor in KH was used conservatively - for key plot points, you know - but instead the concept is shoved in our faces even in combat, where we face the result of a person having their Heart removed. It's irksome, and makes campy something that could be epic.

As for Final Fantasy, I'm more annoyed by the characters than the quality of the games themselves. I'll be the first to admit that I've never, not once, touched a Final Fantasy game; they're long and involved as JRPGs are supposed to be, and I'd rather not dedicate that sort of time to 'em. (The only ones I've ever fully invested myself into are Skies of Arcadia and Tales of Symphonia.) I can't pass judgement on the quality of any FF game. I have, however, become familiar with the "big" characters...Cloud, Sephiroth, Aeris, Squall, that lot. Back in the late nineties, the character archetypes they filled were unexplored territory, so far as video games were concerned: silent, emo badasses carrying big swords and occasionally having just a single angel wing because it's stylish. (Okay, not Aeris...she was more of a gunless, female, human version of Megaman X, who is likewise an insufferable peace-loving character.)

Now, these traits on their own - whatever, I could care less. But the fact that they're persistently popular despite the shallowness of their personalities is more than a mite irksome; combine this with the fact that, after several verbositally challenged sword-wielding emo badasses have come and gone in the past decade's worth of gaming, these characters haven't had an ounce of depth added to them makes them frustrating and intolerable.

So yeah, there's my tangent of the day. This is getting to be too habitual XD

EDiT: Sorry, Teev, It'd been a couple hours between me starting and finishing this post, so I didn't see your last response till after I'd posted this. Don't mean to drag it out any longer than necessary. XD

[Goomba Joe]

4.Not enough obscure/less popular stuff. I want to see some things that I won't expect. Chernabog in KH1 is a good example. But I wanted more. Like a Lambert summon or something.

God yes, that's the kinda stuff I wanna see in the next game...

Really the main reason I love the series is for the Disney stuff. Never cared much for Square, otherwise. The gameplay's pretty fun and sometimes addictive, the story is interesting I will admit, and Yoko composes the awesome music.

Right, back to Brawl...

[TV Eye]

sgtmajorkururu said:

EDiT: Sorry, Teev, It'd been a couple hours between me starting and finishing this post, so I didn't see your last response till after I'd posted this. Don't mean to drag it out any longer than necessary. XD

S'alright bro, you heightened my awareness and...thinkingness...

[Flint]

Somehow I feel most people are bashing Brawls story just because we know who was behind it , I found the story to bee good enough ( I wasnt expecting Hamlet like you guys) I can tell you by experience ( www.flintofmother3.deviantart.com/journal/9379582/ )That it is not easy to give 32 characters a equal part in the plot, and Brawl does a pretty good job doing that (the only think I don't like its Tabuu, but I didn't like Giga-bowser in Melee either)

On another note, Tabuu reminded me 3 things:
1)That Rare Nes game of the same name (maybe he is the emboidment of that game)
2)A male Wireframe (maybe he is a Wire frame that got somehow more powerfully and wanted revenge)
3)Tron, and since Brawl its the biggest video game crossover yet it also mekes sence (Tron did take place inside a computer)

[Fryguy64]

Haha, is it bad that I didn't even think of him as related to the Wireframes until you said it just then? That must be intentional! God of the Wireframes, who hail from Subspace. That makes some sense as to why he'd want to destroy the Brawlers from inside. Bitterness because I smashed hundreds of his minions in Melee

[Wildcat]

I didn't mind the story - I just wish it pushed the Nintendo factor a bit more. I felt that it was more than adequate.

[Boo Destroyer]

admin said:

Haha, is it bad that I didn't even think of him as related to the Wireframes until you said it just then? That must be intentional! God of the Wireframes, who hail from Subspace. That makes some sense as to why he'd want to destroy the Brawlers from inside. Bitterness because I smashed hundreds of his minions in Melee

What a scary thought.

admin said:

I've also heard the SSE is one of the weakest parts of the game, online is poorly implemented, and that I'm not a playable character. All of these things are likely to annoy me more when I get the game.

You would have been the best character of them all.

[Fryguy64]

My Final Smash is to vanish for 3 months without updating.