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Post by eadninja on Jun 11, 2009 21:45:38 GMT -5
This however creates a double standard and one that shortchanges and miscredits members of actual development teams. I think one particular problem in most NIntendo database, is the tendency to inaccruately crop or overcredit development teams based on one single copyright, developer logo, or mention of a developer being involved.
I wil give you an example:
Kirby's: Amazing Mirror is listed as a developed by Flagship on Nintendo Database. Now, Flagship has about 4-5 employees in the company. The company does not program games. The company does not compose music. The company has few if any graphic artists. Yet they are listed as being the developers of Kirby Amazing Mirror? The truth is Flagship is a development coordinator. Nothing more. Nothing less. The game was actually programmed by DIMPS. Most of the other aspects came from HAL/NIntendo. Basically, Flagship's job was to coordinate this entire development process between the teams and produce a finished game between them.
Flagship has coordination duties on several NIntendo titles. Flagship coordinate several Fire Emblem titles like Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones, Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance, Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn. These Fire Emblem games actually have alot of external companies (as Flagship coordinated) doing the work but Intelligent Systems is listed as the developer.
Flagship is also credited as the developer of the Zelda: Oracle titles when the actual game development was done by Capcom's Production Studio No. 1.
Another example is Rhythm Tengoku. For some reason just from looking at the copyright, NINDB list J.P Room as the developer of the Rhythm Tengoku series. J.P Room is not even a game developer! It is a music production studio. The truth is J.P Room create all the live music with lyrics used in the game. The entire game was developed by Nintendo R&D1 (well now known as Software Development & Planning Group). Look at the credits. Each development member is from NIntendo outside of Tsunku who produced the live music. Hell, not even all the music was done by J.P.Room. Several of the BGMs were done by Nintendo Sound Team.
Star Fox is listed as being developed by Argonaut. Yes. The FX hardware and FX program were done by Argonaut software, but EAD is the overall development team. The director, polygon modeler, level designer, musician, character designer, and producer are all Nintendo. What would Star Fox be if Takaya Imamura didn't create the Star Fox characters. If Hajime Hirasawa didn't compose the godly soundtrack. If Tsuyoshi Watanabe didn't polygon model the arwing. If Katsuya Eguchi and Yoichi Yamada didn't direct the game. Nevermind Shigeru Miyamoto being listed as the producer. Mathematically, EAD contributed more to the sum of the game, than Cuthbert and Jez-San's technology.
Stunt Race FX is more of the same deal. The big difference is that this time, there were EAD members on the programming group alongside EAD doing everything else.
Wario Ware: Twisted is listed as an Intelligent Systems game. Did you look at the credits. The actual creator of the game, is Kazuyoshi Osawa (also the guy who created Rhythm Tengoku). Both games, which Osawa is listed as the lead programmer, came up from a tech demo he created and turned into a game. Osawa is a programmer under Nintendo. How is this an IS game? Just because they are part of the development team?
This is just me interjecting an argument of why is there a need to extrapolate NIntendo's involvement from the game.
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Post by Fryguy64 on Jun 12, 2009 3:02:10 GMT -5
EAD Ninja, as I stated before, most internet sources are equally limited or inaccurate (some even more so), and aside from logos that pop up at the beginning of the game, I usually have little else to go on.
But I'm going to throw this open then... You are extremely knowledgeable on this topic, and clearly passionate about it. And because I want NinDB (when it launches) to be as accurate as I can make it, would you be at all interested in going through the games on the site (and recent games) and listing the right developer or developers for the games?
It's not a small undertaking, but I'm hoping it won't actually take all that long.
I have been fixing ones that I know are definitely wrong as I've been going through the site, but I would hugely value your input. It may also bring to light some things I didn't know.
If you need me to provide a game list to you, I would be happy to do that.
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Post by eadninja on Jun 17, 2009 10:10:08 GMT -5
Hey Fry. Check your email.
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Post by fiendcode on Jun 17, 2009 11:46:51 GMT -5
Wii Chess seems to be missing a dedicated entry? Contrary to popular belief, the game was made in Japan by a new-ish startup called Spice Games. They've also done the Wiiware versions of Yakuman and Go for NCL.
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Post by Boo Destroyer on Jun 17, 2009 12:07:30 GMT -5
Heh heh heh..."Fiend Code". That's a clever one.  |
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Post by Fryguy64 on Jun 25, 2009 10:52:03 GMT -5
Wii Chess seems to be missing a dedicated entry? Contrary to popular belief, the game was made in Japan by a new-ish startup called Spice Games. They've also done the Wiiware versions of Yakuman and Go for NCL. Lotsa games missing dedicated entries at the moment. I'm working on it and should have them up and running shortly on the new server. |
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Grandy02
Balloon Fighter
I'm so happy today
Posts: 847
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Post by Grandy02 on Jul 5, 2009 14:21:08 GMT -5
I'm confused about when Nintendo did actually structure its development teams in R&D1, R&D2, R&D3 and R&D4 (EAD). NinDB's history of Nintendo says 1985, but also games that were already released in 1984 (such as Devil World) name R&D1 as the developer, for example. Also confusing: It is said that all former R&Ds now work under the EAD banner. But why are the newer WarioWare games, originally developed by R&D1, now developed by Nintendo SPD (even if the major people, e.g. Goro Abe and Ko Takeuchi, are still the same)? EAD Ninja's posting also says that R&D1 is "now SPD".
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Post by Fryguy64 on Jul 6, 2009 7:32:59 GMT -5
R&D1 worked on multiple projects, split into several teams with a few members working across them. It would appear that when R&D1 was absorbed into EAD, at least some of those teams were moved to Nintendo SPD instead... and one of those has been responsible for the more recent WarioWare games.
So back in 1985, R&D1 would have also had several teams. Hiroshi Yamauchi then separated them into the R&D1/2/3/4 teams and had them compete against each other. Over time, they either became more specialised or split into further teams.
And that is why they restructured again in 2004.
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Post by fiendcode on Jul 7, 2009 12:24:02 GMT -5
Quick question, but will the new site delineate (post-2004) developed games and apps by the five EAD groups and four SPD groups, or just say EAD/SPD?
Also, as I understand it SPD1 is Sakamoto's group (of Metroid/Wario/RH fame). Actually, I'm not sure if any R&D1 teams went to EAD, but R&D2 definitely did.
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Post by Fryguy64 on Jul 7, 2009 12:27:03 GMT -5
The new site will just list "Nintendo" until more accurate information can be gathered for more series.
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Post by MEGAߥTE on Aug 8, 2009 22:52:30 GMT -5
The latest Iwata Asks us.wii.com/iwata_asks/punchout/vol1_page1.jsp talks about EVR Race, Nintendo's "first video game," and I noticed it's missing from NinDB. It's an electromechanical medal game that used video tape to drive the display. |
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on Aug 15, 2009 5:32:48 GMT -5
OOH! OOH! LOOK! LOOK! I'm like a young YoungLink! Pointing out errors and whatnot! www.nindb.net/ann-super-mario-bros.htmlSays blah blah blah the picture here shows blah blah blah. Theres no picture there. Massive fail. Do I win a prize? I think for being the first to point out an error on the new site I should get some sort of prize. EDIT: Wait, unless you are saying they are shown 'here' referring to where the Princess replacement is (as in, in-game), in which case thats pretty confusing English. And I should get some sort of prize anyway, for being great. EDIT 2: Ooooooooh! Give me another prize. Go to this page, www.nindb.net/pokemon-mystery-dungeon-2.html , click the link to the next game (My Poemon Ranch), it goes back to Pokemon Ranger. Boy, I sure hope someone got fired for THAT blunder. |
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Grandy02
Balloon Fighter
I'm so happy today
Posts: 847
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Post by Grandy02 on Aug 15, 2009 7:35:30 GMT -5
So, now there's the new NinDB, here's some minor stuff I noticed: nindb.net/snes.htmlThe SNES photo is from here, right? You have to annote the photographer (Sandos) and the free license, either GNU-FDL or CC Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported. Well, that's how free content works. nindb.net/warioware-diy.htmlI've not seen this with an !, and as far as I know, NOA used full stops (D.I.Y.). nindb.net/warioware-inc.htmlJapanese title (Assemble!! Made in Wario) of GameCube remake is missing. First game title needs !, the "inc" for second title needs to be capitalised. You added an ! to several Japanese Made in Wario titles (e.g. Dancing! Made in Wario), but I don't know any of those (aside from Mega Party Games! / Assemble!!) that used one. nindb.net/mario-strikers-charged.htmlPAL title is Mario Strikers Charged Football. nindb.net/super-mario-bros.htmlMight be worth mentioning that Peach's earlier English name is Toadstool, at least in the debut game's entry. nindb.net/kid-icarus.htmlLacks the Japanese title (Light Myth: Palthena's Mirror according to Wikipedia). nindb.net/kurukuru-kururin.htmlIt was spelled Kuru Kuru Kururin in Brawl, but I know that it was Kurukuru in the European manual. Well, what's correct now? nindb.net/kirbys-avalanche.htmlnindb.net/kirbys-dream-land-2.htmlReleased in Europe on 1st February 1995 and in 1995 (no exact date), respectively, according to Nintendo.fi. nindb.net/yoshis-safari.htmlReleased in Europe on 14th July 1993 according to Nintendo.fi. nindb.net/warios-woods.htmlSNES version released in Europe in 1995 (no exact date) according to Nintendo.fi. But you will still always prefer American titles on NinDB or what? Usually yes, American titles will take precedence. So far I have made one exception to this: Cooking Guide. The "Personal Trainer: Cooking" name presupposes that the series is "Personal Trainer", which is just something NoA made up. I see you've changed your mind - maybe because NOA has continued titling games "Personal Trainer" (Personal Trainer: Walking appears with the Euro name in the series list, though)?  |
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Post by TV Eye on Aug 15, 2009 10:32:33 GMT -5
I sure hope someone got fired for THAT blunder. Even after all those layoffs? |
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Post by nocturnal YL on Aug 15, 2009 12:53:37 GMT -5
OOH! OOH! LOOK! LOOK! I'm like a young YoungLink! *checks age* You win. What about talking place as my successor and pick errors on NinDB? All those years made my skills rusty... =D (There's something I would have said about ANN SMB, but I'll see if a certain third party would allow me to reveal that.)Ahem. It's not a secret anymore. See posts below. |
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