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Post by Flip on Dec 5, 2008 18:12:04 GMT -5
Having Kirby, Dedede, and Wario eat items seems rather pointless, as it doesn't affect anything very much afterward (other than remove them from the place, but whatever). And Yoshi's tongue NEEDS to be a tether recovery. It would be priceless to see him hanging down there from his tongue flailing his arms and legs rapidly in desperation. He totally did it in Yoshi's Story. It can count as a reference! |
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Post by Boo Destroyer on Dec 5, 2008 18:29:17 GMT -5
Do you mean on those floating red spheres marked with "!"?
Yoshi's Egg Throwing does lift him up in the air itwhen he does, but only a wee bit (still helps).
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Post by Koopaul on Dec 5, 2008 19:41:44 GMT -5
Yeah but it's not good enough. It only helps you outta certain situations. I agree Yoshi is weaker in Brawl, but not by too much. What's important now is giving him a reliable recovery, yeah the tongue does sound good. I also think his Egg Roll should serve as a good recovery in the future as well.
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Post by Sqrt2 on Dec 5, 2008 19:43:15 GMT -5
ICE CLIMBERSAnother great character that's been upgraded well, no need to discuss this. How about a decent FS that can actually KO someone? The IC's FS is the only one whose FS I've not been able to KO someone with. What needs fixing: -Fix the Blaster glitch. Blaster glitch? What blaster glitch?  |
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Post by Manspeed on Dec 5, 2008 19:46:31 GMT -5
To tell the truth, I've always wanted to see some more drastic changes to each character from game to game, mainly to improve balance and maybe add little more game accuracy. Here's some ideas:
Mario:
-Allow him to throw two fireballs at a time a la SMB. It would also help if they didn't faze out so fast.
-FLUDD should cause damage.
-This is purely an aesthetic thing, but I think his "DK Arcade death animation" taunt should have the sound effect to go with it.
Luigi:
-He's pretty much perfect, thought I would've liked to see the Poltergust 3000 and Thunderhand in there somewhere. Guess we'll just have to make Prof. E. Gadd an Assist and have him use the Poltergust instead.
Peach:
-She needs to be made more powerful. Seriously, she sucks in Brawl compared to Melee.
-Either make the little hearts that fly out from the Peach Bomber stronger or just bring back the explosions.
Bowser:
-Despite not flinching he still gets knocked around too easily.
-I'd also make his Side B allow you to choose between biting, throwing or suplexing the other player.
-Giga Bowser should be completely invincible. Having him take damage is too much of a disadvantage.
Yoshi:
-Everything Koopaul and Flip said.
-If I could, I'd change his Up B so that it produces the moving cursor from Yoshi's Island and while the move is in effect you can only jump, move left and right and press B again to shoot the egg.
-He should have multiple jumps a la Kirby as a reference to how you could chain Flutter Jumps together in Yoshi's Island.
-Maybe this is pushing it, but he could be able to eat items and turn them into eggs which are used for the Up B move.
Wario:
-I can't really think of anything to change other than maybe making him heavier and more powerful. He's friggin' "lifts up bosses hundreds of time larger than him" Wario for chrissake!
DK:
-Dtich that damn Headbutt move in favor of the Coconut Cannon. I mean seriously, what the hell?
-Replace his Running A with the roll attack from DKC.
Diddy:
-Everything's fine except the Down B. I can't really think of anything to replace it with, though.
Link:
-My inner retro fanboy wants him to be able to shoot beams out of his sword at full health, but that's a bit rediculous.
-Otherwise, he could stand to be a bit more powerful.
More to come later...
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Post by Wildcat on Dec 5, 2008 19:58:33 GMT -5
I don't see a major difference in C. Falcon, personally. I use him about as effectively as I did in Melee, and I held my own in battles with friends. I think he's improved a bit, myself. *shrugs* I don't tourney, so I don't pay attention to their opinions, really.
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Post by Koopaul on Dec 5, 2008 20:03:14 GMT -5
I wouldn't touch DK, it's one of those, if it ain't broke don't fix it deal. The headbutt doesn't do anything for the sake of being accurate to his series, but it posses as an incredibly useful move that many would be pissed to be rid of.
Wario is pretty heavy despite his aerial expertise in the game. I still want to fix those Game & Watch movements he has though.
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Post by Boo Destroyer on Dec 5, 2008 21:15:01 GMT -5
Wario's quite insane as Wario-Man, but even then, that Final Smash isn't very interesting...Give him a better one, perhaps?
On another note, am I the only one who actually really liked the Subspace folk from SSE? I'm all for bringing on other enemy characters next time, but these ones could stay too. I don't know about anyone else.
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Post by Koopaul on Dec 5, 2008 21:29:03 GMT -5
I didn't mind them, I just wished there were more classic franchise enemies instead.
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Post by Arcadenik on Dec 5, 2008 21:42:57 GMT -5
I always thought that Wario's choppy animations was a reference to the animation in the WarioWare series. That's why I thought that if SSB4 had Classic Wario, a semi-clone of Wario wearing the traditional overalls but with moves and abilities based off Wario Land series (Puffy Wario to float like Kirby, Fat Wario after picking up Food items, etc.) AND he gets the smooth animations, he would make a fine second representative of the Wario franchise (not Mona, Ashley, 9-Volt, Captain Syrup, Waluigi, etc.) I always thought that Wario's chomp move (B) was a reference to that microgame where Wario has to eat a hotdog. So why not Classic Wario use the Dragon Hat like Bowser's fire breath with B? And use the Jet Hat to charge and shoulder slam in the air like Luigi's side B? The A moves can be pretty much the same (or similar, at least) to Wario. As for Yoshi, I felt he was better in Brawl compared to Melee. I play as him a lot and scored a lot KOs with him. The ability to air dodge many times helps Yoshi a lot! The flutter kick (aerial down) is very good and can really rack up damage very quickly and his tail flip (aerial up) is very powerful if you time it right (and the opponent is at least 80% or up, depending on their weight) But I have to agree that Yoshi's tongue should be a bit longer and that the opponent should stay inside the egg a little bit longer... and the tongue have to be used as a tether recovery (he did it in Yoshi's Story!) oh, and the Egg Roll is pretty good but I felt that he should be able to charge it up like Pikachu's side B move so it could fire Yoshi back on the stage (plus its a pretty good reference to that flower that lets Yoshi turn into an egg and blast away in Yoshi's Story) For those saying Yoshi is lighter in Brawl compared to Melee, well, why not let him carry Baby Mario on his back to give him the weight he needs? You do not switch between Yoshi and Baby Mario during gameplay at all. Its purely aesthetic. But you can play as Baby Mario by selecting Yoshi, then selecting Baby Mario on the character select screen just like how you're able to select Sheik by selecting Zelda. For what his moves can be, well, he got Mario & Luigi, Yoshi's Island DS, and Mario Kart under his belt. His FS could be using that Yoshi egg that's following him around (a la Super Mario World 2) like the Smash Egg in Mario & Luigi, the stork just drops Baby Luigi and you just time the kicks the babies do with the egg with the A button! As for Diddy Kong's banana move... I always felt that it should be replaced with the ability to switch between himself and Dixie Kong. Dixie Kong can follow behind Diddy Kong a la Ice Climbers, except pressing down B will switch between the Kongs (plus she would get different moves and the ability to float with her ponytail!) and if you lose one Kong, then pressing down B will just make the remaining Kong throw a banana peel. As for Link, I completely agree with someone who said he should shoot beams out of his sword when his health is full. So, I think that why not he do it only when he's at 0% and he can do it by smashing left and right + A! And Toon Link should be able to do it as well! Oh, and also in The Minish Cap, Toon Link can shoot beams out of his sword when he has one heart left! So why not Link and Toon Link shoot beams out of the swords at 0% and at 300% and beyond? As for Peach's FS, maybe its based off the Calm vibe in Super Princess Peach. While it may heal her life meter, the calm enemies were always found sleeping. I'd have liked her to use Psych Bomb from Mario RPG instead, IMO. Make many Bob-ombs rain from above.  If Toad is playable in SSB4, why not have Peach use Toadsworth as a human shield, or even a Mushroom Retainer (meaning its still Toad  )? |
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Post by Boo Destroyer on Dec 5, 2008 21:46:45 GMT -5
I always thought that Wario's choppy animations was a reference to the animation in the WarioWare series. That's why I thought that if SSB4 had Classic Wario, a semi-clone of Wario wearing the traditional overalls but with moves and abilities based off Wario Land series (Puffy Wario to float like Kirby, Fat Wario after picking up Food items, etc.) AND he gets the smooth animations, he would make a fine second representative of the Wario franchise (not Mona, Ashley, 9-Volt, Captain Syrup, Waluigi, etc.) I always thought that Wario's chomp move (B) was a reference to that microgame where Wario has to eat a hotdog. So why not Classic Wario use the Dragon Hat like Bowser's fire breath with B? And use the Jet Hat to charge and shoulder slam in the air like Luigi's side B? The A moves can be pretty much the same (or similar, at least) to Wario. Wario should be just one character entry, but the two different outfits would see different movesets for him. Keep the one he has now in his WarioWare one, but different in his overalls. I heard it was originally gonna be like that, but screwed over when it couldn't work. Toon Link has vast potential for moves of his own, especially seeing what he has used in Wind Waker. Come on, try harder next time on this, Sakurai. Sudden Death |
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Post by Arcadenik on Dec 5, 2008 22:07:50 GMT -5
Sakurai had 7 years to declone Ganondorf, Falco, and Young Link, and they still come out more or less clones this time. Face it, they aren't getting completely decloned. Even if we give Falco a double blaster with less power, it would still work as one powerful blaster he already has in Brawl. Or even if we gave him a wind element to his up B, it still wouldn't change the way it works. Plus Wolf already has a wind element to his up B, except he kicks instead but its still the same thing.
Hmmm.... Wario as one character but with two movesets. How will this work? You just gave me an idea... why not have two Warios in the character select screen? You select Wario and there are two Warios standing side by side like Zelda / Sheik so you must choose between Wario and Classic Wario! The name "Classic Wario" is to indicate that you are selecting the Wario with the overalls on the character select screen and not the Wario wearing the biker outfit! Would this be acceptable? If so, then I can easily add King K. Rool to the character select screen and still come up with 44 characters on the screen (its a 9x5 roster, with the 45th slot being RANDOM).
As for Dixie Kong following Diddy Kong around, why not they be able to switch places only when they are close enough? They can't switch when they are far apart. I didn't hear anything about Dixie Kong being teamed up with Diddy Kong not working out in Brawl. But she's one of the "Forbidden Seven" and Diddy Kong has the lame banana peel as his down B tells me it could be possible. I guess in about 5 to 7 years from now, Sakurai will be able to figure out how to make them work like a combination of Ice Climbers and Zelda / Sheik (the concept sounds cool but may be hard to implement in the game code for now).
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Post by Koopaul on Dec 5, 2008 23:42:58 GMT -5
Wario should just be a mish-mash of his Wario Ware self and his Wario Land self. Its probably true that they gave him choppy animations from Wario Ware but I don't think Wario Ware did that on purpose.
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Post by Boo Destroyer on Dec 6, 2008 2:27:28 GMT -5
No, no, no. Switch between them the same way as it was in Brawl, not like Zelda, Sheik and Pokemon Trainer.
(If Zelda/Sheik could switch via code in Melee, but now like this in Brawl, Samus could switch by select screen next time, after with a code in Brawl. Adds up?)
The same thing can apply, but just no need to make it like that when it's been set up the right way already.
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Post by Da Robot on Dec 6, 2008 4:02:19 GMT -5
I always thought that Wario's choppy animations was a reference to the animation in the WarioWare series. It actually a reference to the original Wario Land on the Game Boy, I remember back on (the now closed down) Nsider showed a GIF from the game of Wario moving around in that odd manner. |
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If Toad is playable in SSB4, why not have Peach use Toadsworth as a human shield, or even a Mushroom Retainer (meaning its still Toad 
)?