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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2011 14:43:44 GMT -5
I never once outright stated she was a strong character, guys. I know. You said the opposite. That's why I was arguing that she was.  I've never thought as Sheik and Zelda as two different characters. When Zelda starts dressing as Sheik, she doesn't stop being Zelda. She's Zelda all the way through the game, whether we know it or not. She doesn't suddenly become a weaker character because she dons a dress. Likewise for Tetra. Tetra actually does show some magical talent by being able to talk to Link telepathically through the Gossip Stone, something that only she and the King are able to do. Likewise, OoT Zelda has her visions of the future right from childhood. Zelda's magical abilities have been explained hundreds of times over the series - she's Hylian. And the Hylian race are born (I'm quoting directly here) with magic-infused blood. They've been said over and over to have psychic and magical abilities given to them by the Gods. I segregate Sheik and Tetra from Zelda because the instant the transformation is made, she gets locked away/kidnapped. That's the defining trait of Zelda as a character; neither Sheik nor Tetra were abducted until they changed, and the instant they do, their behavior changes. Sheik became demure and whiny, Tetra became lethargic and confused. Seriously, just look at her face when she's forced into the dress:  Not to mention, in Phantom Hourglass, it's revealed that Tetra was Zelda in the opening cutscene. Why else would she be abducted so soon? As soon as we find out they're Zelda, they become indisposed, either due to the machinations of Ganondorf, or the actions of some Regal Analbag who thinks he knows better. The name is a cursed formality; they should cut out the middleman and call her "Kidnap me Please, I'm Helpless Unless it's Convenient for the Plot." I don't remember the "Hylians have magic-infused blood" thing from any Zelda game I've played, but I won't claim I remember each of them verbatim. For the sake of argument, I'll yield the point, but who taught Zelda to use those spells? Certainly not the Sages, they were locked up for most of the seven-year gap in OoT. And we know Impa had no other magical abilities. While it's true that her ability to change back and forth into Sheik is magic, when did she learn anything else? Why didn't she use the pin-your-ass-down trick anywhere else in the game? Who taught her to use it? There are way too many plotholes, which makes my deus ex machina point more than valid. Besides, why don't any of the Hylian NPCs express the ability to use psychic tricks or magic? I suppose you could count the Happy Mask Salesman, but what about everybody else? Also, Tetra could communicate with Link via that stone was because she had one of her own, and vice versa. They're using an item to do their work, not some innate mental powers. |
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Post by kirbychu on Jun 9, 2011 15:50:26 GMT -5
I segregate Sheik and Tetra from Zelda because the instant the transformation is made, she gets locked away/kidnapped. That's the defining trait of Zelda as a character; neither Sheik nor Tetra were abducted until they changed, and the instant they do, their behavior changes. Sheik became demure and whiny, Tetra became lethargic and confused. I never saw OoT Zelda as demure or whiny, at least not any more than she was when she was dressed as Sheik. She's a fairly emo character whatever she's wearing. The fact that she reveals herself as Zelda is the reason she is caught, not the other way around. Tetra does suffer a dazed and confused spell after finding out she's a princess and being zapped into a dress, but wouldn't you? (Not least because you're a guy ) It's also worth noting that Tetra doesn't get immediately kidnapped after becoming Zelda, she spends a good while in hiding first. You could argue that she should be out fighting Ganon with Link instead, but remember that having them all in one place is exactly what Ganon is after, and they know that. I don't remember the "Hylians have magic-infused blood" thing from any Zelda game I've played, but I won't claim I remember each of them verbatim. For the sake of argument, I'll yield the point, but who taught Zelda to use those spells? Certainly not the Sages, they were locked up for most of the seven-year gap in OoT. And we know Impa had no other magical abilities. While it's true that her ability to change back and forth into Sheik is magic, when did she learn anything else? Why didn't she use the pin-your-ass-down trick anywhere else in the game? Who taught her to use it? There are way too many plotholes, which makes my deus ex machina point more than valid. Besides, why don't any of the Hylian NPCs express the ability to use psychic tricks or magic? There are Hylians in Hyrule Castle Town who complain about not having any magical powers because their blood has been watered down over the years. We can probably assume that Link and Zelda are from bloodlines who've done less breeding with humans through the generations. I'm not sure if it's important whether Zelda "learned" her magic from anyone... Link tends to just pick magic up on his own as he goes along, and he's obviously far less magical than Zelda. (Also, just fyi, the "magic-infused blood" quote was specifically from ALttP) Also, Tetra could communicate with Link via that stone was because she had one of her own, and vice versa. They're using an item to do their work, not some innate mental powers. There's no indication anywhere in the game that more than one of those stones exists. I had assumed that's how they worked at first too, but the game's text says that "it" was crafted by the King and passed down through the royal family. It seems unlikely they were mass-produced. |
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Post by Da Robot on Jun 10, 2011 16:49:53 GMT -5
Blond chick, that we were still unsure of as Zelda, has now been confirmed to be Zelda. (watch video at 0:52)  Her design also seems to be partially based off 80's retro Zelda.(GIF source N-Sider forums) |
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Post by Manspeed on Jun 10, 2011 17:04:08 GMT -5
That artwork is from A Link to the Past. Here's a better look:  I'd like to point out that SS Zelda's hair reminds me of Marin from Link's Awakening. Either way, I love the idea. |
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Post by Arcadenik on Jun 10, 2011 17:22:19 GMT -5
Hey! Notice how Zelda has a harp? It looks like Sheik's harp from Ocarina of Time to me.
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Post by Koopaul on Jun 24, 2011 16:23:44 GMT -5
TEi Zelda is not perfect and she's far from it. But Peach is still far worse in comparison. The RPG's don't count since the Zelda series never had that opportunity.
Maybe Zelda's usefulness is "lazily written" but at least she has that! Damn I'd be so happy the day Peach had a lazily written usefulness in a main Mario game! Or personality! Or dialog that doesn't involve "cake" or help"!
Ahem anyway. I have been playing OoT and there's lots of important things they talk about that happen before that game.
Like the original sages who built the temple of time. Or the Sheikah and how they became so loyal to the Hylians. Or the war that took place which killed so many Sheikah.
I wonder if any of that will happen in this game seeing how it is a prequel.
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Post by Arcadenik on Jun 24, 2011 17:30:36 GMT -5
I wouldn't be surprised if Skyward Sword doesn't even show the original Sages building the Temple of Time and the Sheikah pledging allegiance to the Hylians, let alone the great war. I bet there will be another game between Ocarina of Time and Skyward Sword. After all, Nintendo does need to stretch the timeline long enough to make more games between games.
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Post by Koopaul on Jun 24, 2011 21:31:33 GMT -5
Eh I suppose but I hope there are SOME things revealed. Perhaps some light will be shed on the Ooccoo.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2011 12:42:53 GMT -5
Eh I suppose but I hope there are SOME things revealed. Perhaps some light will be shed on the Ooccoo. No...no. The Oocoo are better left forgotten. Not just because they were creepy as hell (they were), but because when I went to the sky temple in TP, I expected the fantastic Sky People to look more epic than the chicken version of Seaman. (Also, am not pursuing the Zelda debate. It has reached the point where we're arguing in circles. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree...even if I'm right.  ) |
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Post by Nester the Lark on Aug 17, 2011 12:40:57 GMT -5
Skyward Sword will be launching (no pun intended) on November 20 in North America, and November 18 in Europe. Man... Europe even gets Zelda first! I mean only by two days, but still.  Europe is also getting Four Swords as a free download for DSiWare in September. ( Source and source) |
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Post by Savage Adam on Aug 29, 2011 11:57:36 GMT -5
 Gold Wiimote, Concert CD, $70. Want. |
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Post by Wildcat on Aug 29, 2011 14:01:06 GMT -5
That's a nice set of goodies, there. May even tempt me, and I'm full-on Skyrim in November. |
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Post by Boo Destroyer on Aug 31, 2011 19:25:04 GMT -5
Man... Europe even gets Zelda first! I mean only by two days, but still. I still don't understand this recent trend either. Tei the Spiffy: If Zelda is getting stale so far, then really, what is it that you want to be changed in these games? We want to hear your ideas here. I think I remember you saying something like 2P co-op with Link and Zelda. |
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Post by Da Robot on Aug 31, 2011 21:03:33 GMT -5
I haven't played it but wasn't Spirit Tracks a co-op experience using Link and Zelda (yeah, I know it's not 2P)
I tried going through TWW with the Tingle Tuner co-op and it was annoying as fuck when your partner is a jackass*, I ended up just playing using it by my self (Tingle has some great dialog excuses that prevent him from doing dungeon boss battles)
* Having bombs that hurt Link AND cost him rupees is not a fun idea, I really wish that idea could have been tied to some sort of "bomb usage meter" or something.
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on Aug 31, 2011 21:56:55 GMT -5
Man... Europe even gets Zelda first! I mean only by two days, but still. I still don't understand this recent trend either. Europe releases games on Friday. The US releases games on Sunday. Now, using these two pieces of information, create a release schedule that sees both regions get the game as close to the same time as possible. Its pretty easy to understand, really. |
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