Planning on making a huge Mario Engine...

[The Great Gatsby]

It'll be for Game Maker, since that's the only Game Making tool I can use properly.

Anywho, it's still in the planning stages (as I don't even have a compy to start working on it yet), but either way, what Mario elements would you guys like to see in it? I will try out anything you throw at me; the only requirement is that it has to at the very least exist in the Mario Universe in some way. Want me to try making a Midbus fight platformer style? Sure thing. How about giving Mario a hammer to carry around and smash people with? That's fine as well. Want your fan made powerup in game? Nope, sorry dude. Since I will be releasing as an editable file, it'll be easy to add new content along the way; may it be powerups, enemies, and many other things. So don't worry; new ideas and the like aren't completely out of consideration.

Wasn't sure what forum to post this in; if this topic belongs somewhere else, please go ahead and move it.

Also, i'm expecting to be showered by questions, so feel free to ask anything!

[Manspeed]

Just make it a mix of SMB, SMB2, SMB3, SMW, YI, SML, and SML2.

Most of that was already covered in in SMA4's e-reader mode as well as both NSMBs, so there isn't much left to add.

[The Great Gatsby]

Well obviously, but i'm not shoving it all in at once. I want to start slow, so interest won't go away as quickly.

I'm obviously starting off with the basics;

-Mario
-Common enemies
*Goombas
*Koopas (Green, Red, Paratroopas...)
*Piranha Plants
*Buzzy Beetles
*Hammer/Boomerang/Fire Bros
*Bullet Bills (w/ cannons, of course)
*Lakitus
*Spinies
*Cheep Cheeps
*Bloopers
-Items
*Mushroom
*Fire Flower
*Racoon Leaf
*1up Mushrooms
-Example Bosses
*SMB1 Bowser
*Boom Boom
*Larry Koopa (SMB3)
*Iggy Koopa (SMW)

I think that's about all I have so far... but anywho, should I add anything else? Obviously this will not be the final list of features for the first release, so yeah, i'm just wondering what else you guys would like to see.

[Hiker of Games]

It'd be neat to have a Wario option, but not just as a heavier Wario, but to play in the same manner as he does in his own series.

[The Great Gatsby]

I've been considering the idea of programming new characters along the way, actually. Wario seems like a good start. And yeah, he'll be programmed to work the way he did in the Wario Land series, so don't worry about that. :P

[nocturnal YL]

A few things here...

- LUIGI SUPPORT, OBVIOUSLY. Stop ignoring him.
- Propeller Suit. Or Star Spin. Or both.
- Proper slope handling. Duck to slide! I can't stand Hello's Engine. It's good, but has a lot of imperfections. And EVERYONE USES IT, what the.

[Fryguy64]

Get the controls right, then worry about what to put into the game. I've played too many crappy Mario fangames to bother with.

After all, I'm fairly sure Miyamoto knew that he wanted Mario to jump, hit blocks, stomp enemies. Then you had enemies you stomp, enemies that turn into kickable weapons, and enemies you can't stomp. Then you design them.

Will your game benefit from a certain enemy? The game decides that, not fans.

[Manspeed]

Well, going in accordance with what I said, games like SML had a lot of enemies you can stomp, while games like YI have mostly enemies that need to be dealt with in other ways.

Of course, since the YI enemies were clearly designed to be handled by Yoshi, you could try to come up with a creative way for them to be defeated by Mario and/or Wario as well.

Same goes for any Wario Land enemies you might want to include. We already know how Wario would deal with them, but what about Mario?

[Fryguy64]

That is a significant difference between the Miyamoto and Yokoi schools of game design. Super Mario Land, much like Kid Icarus and Metroid, used the same enemy archetypes (hopping enemy, dropping enemy) and switched out the sprites depending on the level.

Miyamoto, on the other hand, has each enemy perform distinctly, and then reuses them across the game. Perhaps changing the colour to signify a slight difference in strength or action.

The difference between the approaches is perhaps an example of how the developer wants you to beat the game. Miyamoto introduces his cast of villains slowly, so the player acclimatises to them and can understand their movements, and then changes the terrain to make each encounter more dangerous. Yokoi introduces his cast of villains, then takes them away, then introduces a whole new cast, some of whom act as older enemies, some who are completely new, so you never know what to expect.

In short, Yokoi's approach makes for a harder game, where the developer changes the rules to make you second-guess your actions. Miyamoto's is less cruel, and makes it feel like every mistake is down to your own poor reaction to a known threat.

This kind of thing fascinates me... understanding the visual, audio and feedback cues that a developer puts in place that a player doesn't consciously notice or wholly grasp the importance of.

(All of the above is largely focused on the developers' early output. Yokoi's mid-90s output was much more refined and closer to Miyamoto's method, such as in Wario Land.)

[Hiker of Games]

The dynamic you get with two different characters like Mario and Wario is that they also interact with their environments a lot differently. When you play as Mario in a game, if you are presented an obstacle, generally you are forced to find a way around it. On the other hand, Wario is someone who just bursts through an obstacle. Mario is quick, agile, and acrobatic and can do a lot of things Wario can't. But Wario doesn't need to, because he makes up for all that with brute strength.

If you're serious about maintaining those attributes in both of them, you'll have some interesting level designs to work out. Some of your basic platformer stages should work for both, but I can see a lot of opportunities for needing alternate paths depending on who you pick. Even moreso if you decide to add in someone different down the road. While we can expect, for instance, Luigi, Peach, and Toad to play similar to Mario, it'll be another matter if you want to make Yoshi a separate character based off his Yoshi's Island moveset. He has his own pattern of dealing with platforming, after all.

[Koopaul]

Well when I was making up ideas for my own ultimate Mario game, the cast was up to six. However I didn't want to make it so you HAD to play as a specific character in order to beat a level or accomplish something. So I realized the best choice was to make their basic moves the same with some of their own advantages. That way you could beat a level with any character in whatever way suits your fancy.

I made Mario and Wario move the same except Mario can jump higher and run faster. However Wario can crawl meaning he doesn't have to slide under blocks, and he can break empty brown blocks as if they were brick blocks. So that opens certain opportunities to the player.

A player who wanted to move quickly and reach higher places would play as Mario, someone who rather take their time and explore more would play as Wario.

Yoshi was the same except he could flutter jump.
Luigi could charge jump, Peach could glide, and DK could grab ledges.

They also had minor enemy advantages but I won't get into that with you guys.

[Shrikeswind]

Really, just stick with some basics of move, jump, duck, then work out extras. For example, you want to add the Thunder Flower, a flower that allows you to launch an Emperor Palpatine lightning attack? Figure it out AFTER you figure out move/jump/duck.

Personally, with regards to power-ups, I find you'll get it best if you were to use EVERYTHING. This is an engine, after all, people are going to have all sorts of ideas for what already existant power-ups should appear. For example, Jimmy may be making a game with less water levels, so the Frog Suit might not be as necessary to him as much as it would to Timmy, who's making one with alot of water. Then you'd have Suzy, who has alot of water and doesn't feel she needs the suit as much because Mario should already have these powers, while Jack might think the suit more necessary since he has less water worlds and therefore less need for Mario to have these abilities. Just to cover some examples. You're going to have alot of people working with this engine, so they should have options, and lots of them. Hell, even if you don't want to use a certain power-up in your own game using the engine, program it anyways. Someone else might. Hell, you might make more games later on that WILL have that power-up. At the same time, though, don't program several power-ups with the same traits. For example, the Raccoon Leaf and the Cape Feather work the same, so don't program both. Let the user decide which to work with. Similarly, if you were to have both the Fire Flower and the Ice Flower, and they worked the same, but with different attributes, don't program both flowers, only program one flower, but change some values, for example, Fire Flower has a value of 1, so its ball can light oily brackets, while Ice Flower has a value of 2, so its ball can freeze water blocks.

[Hiker of Games]

I'd argue the Cape Feather and Raccoon Leaf are not similar at all. They accomplish the same thing, but are both pretty distinct.

[Manspeed]

One goes higher, the other goes farther. Not to mention they control pretty differently.

[Hiker of Games]

On the other hand, the Wing Cap is pretty justifiable identical to the cape. You can't twirl the wing cap on the ground, but the flying dynamic is pretty similar.