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Post by Fryguy64 on Feb 8, 2010 6:22:47 GMT -5
Another complaint about the amount of shovelware on Wii, eh?
Something that is a benefit for the Wii, and also its downfall, is that it's based on last-generation technology. It is easier for developers to produce games for but near-impossible to produce cross-platform games on it. That means if someone invests in 360/PS3 development, they are not going to bother downscaling to the Wii.
What this means is that the game developers who produce "gamer games" (or "hardcore games" or whatever we're calling them today) pretty much exist exclusively on those other consoles.
But we have to remember why Nintendo made this move in the first place. To give small and struggling developers a chance in the thriving (but exclusive to large publishers) console market, and to allow for more experimental games to be released at lower prices. Of course, in some respects this backfired, as there's always a bunch of companies waiting on the sidelines for cheap devkits so they can pump out a load of copycat games at low cost in order to rake in some cash.
And then Nintendo hasn't monitored this situation. Good third party games are being drowned out and lost amid this shovelware.
But what makes me sad is that people then point at Nintendo and blame them, or point at shovelware and blame that. In the last console generation they pointed at something else. In the console generation before they pointed at the N64 being too kiddy...
Fact is, gamers are really stupid when it comes to buying games. You can easily find out which games are actually worth buying, and then go buy them. You can rave about them and spread the word (word-of-mouth worked for Phoenix Wright and Professor Layton). But no... everybody is too interested in moaning, and not actually buying games.
Question... how many of you, who are actually hardcore gamers, buy more than 4-5 Wii games in a given year? Are you pissed that you're not given more of a choice? Or if there were more would you be pissed that you couldn't afford all the games you want?
Nintendo can't win, and third parties lose out because gamers just don't bother looking.
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flamedude
Chibi-Robo
Mildly Retarded Gangbanger
Posts: 396
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Post by flamedude on Feb 8, 2010 12:52:44 GMT -5
I have no brand loyalty whatsoever when it comes to video games. I will simply go where the games I want to play are (at the moment the 360 does everything I want). If Nintendo made a steady stream of excellent games for the Wii I'd have one in a heartbeat but from the launch of the console I've always been waiting for "that game" that makes me rush off to buy a Wii. It's never happened.
I think the problem for Nintendo is that they can't attract the bigger games developers to make games for their console because of the majority demographic who now own Wiis. Namely not hardcore gamers, whatever that means.
Also big developer houses can fairly easily make a game that is almost identical on PC, PS3 and 360 without breaking a sweat but the hardware limitations of the Wii means that converting a game (say CoD) to the Wii would mean remaking the game pretty much from scratch.
When Nintendo makes their next console they need to a) attract a bit of everyone to buy their console to encourage further development of a wide genre of games and b) give their hardware some grunt and c) put a dvd player in the console.
Right now they are riding a huge wave of marketing hype and making mountains of cash. This is the time they should be focusing on consolidating this market lead by establishing a sustainable business model for the current console and further generations. But they don't seem to be doing this. Their rivals might just catch up with Natal and that Sony magic wand.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2010 13:01:57 GMT -5
Question... how many of you, who are actually hardcore gamers, buy more than 4-5 Wii games in a given year? While I could afford to if I felt like it...I don't. I think last year I bought Metroid Prime Trilogy and New Super Mario Bros. Wii, and that's about it. There's just nothing there. Meanwhile, I've been spoiling myself rotten with the 360, which had a slew of awesome games in 2009, and it looks like it's not going to stop. At this point I just want Nintendo to be taken down a peg. |
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Post by Shrikeswind on Feb 9, 2010 1:44:53 GMT -5
To say, I haven't bought a Wii game since 2008, but not for lack of desire. I'm broke. But you can bet your ass I'd have picked up zillions of excellent games if cash allowed. Hell, now that I have money coming in, 2 years later, I legitimately don't know what to get first! It's not hard to find good games, you just need to know the names.
By the way, it was Brawl. Since then I've gotten Prince Caspian (a fun game all around, so far Narnia's been exempt from the movie-game rule) and Avatar (which I'd like to see before I try the game) as gifts. And Harry Potter 5, but that one sucked like a mosquito.
And on that note, what should I get first, Okami, Wario Land, or Punch-Out? I've narrowed it down to the three.
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Post by The Qu on Feb 9, 2010 2:09:28 GMT -5
Okami. You'll be able to find it cheap, it lasts longer than either of the other games (Both of which are excellent as well!), and, honestly? It's one of THE best games of this generation. Ammy deserves your support!
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Post by Fryguy64 on Feb 9, 2010 5:24:23 GMT -5
Here are the key arguments about the Wii, and they're the same arguments I saw about the Gamecube and the N64:
1. Nintendo hasn't released enough games.
2. There's nothing to buy on the Wii/GCN/N64.
3. The Wii/GCN/N64 sucks.
But then there's this one:
1. There aren't enough third party games on the Wii/GCN/N64.
2. There's nothing to buy on the Wii/GCN/N64.
3. The Wii/GCN/N64 sucks.
The first line of both these arguments is fundamentally wrong.
Nintendo hasn't released enough games.
On the PlayStation 3 in 2009, Sony Computer Entertainment published:
God of War Collection, InFamous, Killzone 2, MLB 09: The Show, Ratchet & Clank Future: A Crack in Time, Uncharted 2, Buzz Quiz World, Singstar Motown, EyePet
On the Xbox 360 in 2009, Microsoft Game Studios published:
Forza Motorsport 3, Halo 3: ODST, Halo Wars, Lips: Number One Hits, Ninja Blade
On the Wii in 2009, Nintendo published:
Punch-Out!!, Wii Sports Resort, Metroid Prime: Trilogy, Wii Fit Plus, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Another Code: R, Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games, Excitebots, Tact of Magic, NHK Red-and-White Quiz Battle, PokéPark Wii (plus 7 New Play Control games).
Nintendo is not skimping on game releases when compared to its console manufacturer/publisher brethren. I could add DS, DSi Ware and WiiWare games to this list as well... but I feel I'm already making my point.
There aren't enough third-party games on the Wii/GCN/N64
Really? Here's a selection of third-party games released in 2009 on the Wii that have a relatively high profile:
MadWorld, Klonoa, Boom Blox Bash Party, Resident Evil Archives, Rygar, The Conduit, Dead Space Extraction, TMNT: Smash Up, Muramasa and Resident Evil: Darkside Chronicles.
Not hundreds, sure, but then I ask you how many of the above do you own? How many do you intend to own? And back to my original point... How many games do you actually buy in a year for the Wii anyway?
The unspoken law of fanboy
The above should show that there's enough choice for a savvy gamer to enjoy a range of proper games on the Wii, even in 2009 which, despite the above, was still a relatively quiet year for Nintendo.
Every time I see either of the arguments above coming from a (former?) Nintendo fan, all I actually hear is:
1. I don't want to buy third-party games no matter how good they are, but I'll bitch about it if there aren't loads of awesome games sitting unsold on the shelves.
2. Nintendo hasn't released a new Mario / Zelda / Star Fox / F-Zero / Metroid in the last 6 months.
3. Waaaaaaah!!
Fry, you're a damned hypocrite!
True dat!
I don't own any of the games on the third-party list. I intend to own Muramasa and Klonoa if I ever see a copy in stores, while I'd probably pick up MadWorld in a sale for funsies.
How many games do I buy full price? That depends on how many high-profile releases there are. Last year I bought Another Code: R, Punch-Out, Wii Sports Resort and New SMB Wii at full price, and Mario & Sonic at sale price.
But here's the clincher... I buy Nintendo's experimental games, I have a decent selection of third party games on the Wii, and I'm not moaning that Nintendo isn't pulling their weight.
And what about Flamedude's comments?
They're right, but ultimately misdirected.
For someone who, 4 years on, isn't sold on the Wii concept and isn't going to run out and buy one to play the next Mario or Zelda regardless, then it would seem there's no chance of anything being released that would make them go and buy one now.
Similarly, for me there are a few games on 360 I'd probably play if given the chance, but I'm not going to run out and buy one for the next Halo, and I don't like FPS's in general, so it seems pointless as nearly all its highest profile games are FPS's. The same is true of PS3 (after LBP turned out to be a barely playable sack of balls - pun intented). I'm not yet sold on Natal, SixAxis, Eyetoy or whatever...
And in conclusion...
Go out and buy some of the many good third-party games. Try out some of the "experimental" games that you might not try if the Wii was all massive, franchise-driven first-party games.
And stop whining so much.
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Post by Prince~Of~Light on Feb 9, 2010 8:49:06 GMT -5
(-lvl-)b
I suggest Puyo Puyo 7 for Wii! And EPIC MICKEY!
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Post by Manspeed on Feb 9, 2010 11:02:23 GMT -5
Epic Mickey doesn't come out until September.  |
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Post by Wildcat on Feb 9, 2010 21:50:14 GMT -5
Let's see, I managed to buy 3 Wii games last year (New SMB, MadWorld and Deadly Creatures), and all three were fun, enjoyable titles I don't regret purchasing. So far this year, I've gotten Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom, same deal. I plan on getting Silent Hill, Boy and his Blob, Muramasa and Klonoa in the near future in terms of last year's catch-up, and want the new No More Heroes as well. Money is an issue, but I'm doing what I can to work around that. Anyway, I had a post get munched by my finicky modem yesterday, which was directed back at Mr. Molecule's claim that the NES had relatively few bad games outside of some perimeters.  There's two problems with that argument - one, it's a matter of opinion, and two, there's SEVERAL games generally accepted to be terrible that are not licensed and are not kid's games. Deciding which would be up to debate, but here's five I can think of: Winter Games (poor port of a solid PC title), Ikari Warriors II: Victory Road (good luck beating this!), City Connection (another poor port), Super Pitfall (a clunky mess of a sequel), and Taboo: The Sixth Sense (a tarot title with no actual gameplay...wait a second...). One can say plenty of others - those were ones I thought of first. My point is is that you can say things like "the NES had less shovelware than the N64/GCN/Wii" without some excellent evidence backing your claim. And to me, you didn't do that with such a blanket statement. |
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Post by Fryguy64 on Feb 10, 2010 4:46:47 GMT -5
The first 2 years of the Famicom were nothing but ports and shovelware. Even beloved classics, such as Duck Hunt and Balloon Fight, would count as shovelware by today's standards.
It wasn't until Super Mario Bros. in 1985 that the system's qualities were realised... Then it wasn't until 1987-88 that we started to see some true quality titles from any developer outside of Nintendo (and longer still for developers from outside of Japan).
And back then, Nintendo fanboys weren't quite so insane as they are today. They would actually buy and play third party games!
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Post by Shrikeswind on Feb 10, 2010 21:06:12 GMT -5
Problem is, by today's standards, even SMB is low quality. You need to ignore modern standards with that. Balloon Fight and Duck Hunt would be much more fleshed out if released by today's standards, and if a game like Brawl or Galaxy came out in the '80s? Modern gaming would either suck by comparison and we wouldn't be here discussing ANY game, or Brawl and Galaxy would be shovelware by today's standards. You really can't compare standards of different times, so Duck Hunt and Balloon Fight were top-grade back then. Evolution has made it impossible to release games like these on their own, but it's done wonders for the ones that can. Thankfully, all consoles today allow these cheaply developed yet fun games to be released without the old "Oh my God, this game is too {insert comment here,} it's shovelware" through download (I think the PS3 does, but I'm not 100%.)
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Post by Boo Destroyer on Feb 13, 2010 1:11:11 GMT -5
And back then, Nintendo fanboys weren't quite so insane as they are today. They would actually buy and play third party games! This was mainly back when people couldn't care less what companies made what games. Go out and buy some of the many good third-party games. Try out some of the "experimental" games that you might not try if the Wii was all massive, franchise-driven first-party games. And stop whining so much. Again, the SSB series came along and seemed to have spoiled those Nintendo fanboys hard. I suggest Puyo Puyo 7 for Wii! Agreed. |
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Post by Nester the Lark on Feb 13, 2010 14:10:41 GMT -5
This was mainly back when people couldn't care less what companies made what games. Not true. My friends and I were perfectly aware of the different companies back then, as well as which ones tended to make the better games. We were just a lot less discriminatory about it. The thing is, Nintendo essentially had a lockdown on the market back then. There were no real viable alternatives. If you were interested in selling games, you needed to become a Nintendo third party licensee. And as strict as Nintendo's policies were, third party games generally sold really well. And then the Genesis/Mega Drive came along, and things started to change... |
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Post by Fryguy64 on Feb 17, 2010 4:29:58 GMT -5
It's true that you can't necessarily compare the content of games from one era with another, but there's no denying that for a full priced game, even Duck Hunt was a little lacking in content in 1984/1985. It was shovelware, but nobody had invented the term and nobody had given it a negative association. The result? Duck Hunt's not an outstanding example of gaming done right, but it's loved.
When it comes to third party games, there's always a handful of companies that have a high profile. Capcom's probably the highest profile of them all, and is probably the only company proving that third parties can have successes on the Wii. But then, like Nintendo, they have a very strong catalogue of franchises to draw from. And they have also found success on other systems too.
It'd be interesting to see what they consider to be the root of their success.
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Post by Koopaul on Feb 17, 2010 11:41:34 GMT -5
It isn't the "shovelware" that I'm upset about, it's how Nintendo (in some ways) doomed the success of core titles on the Wii. Take a look at this article: gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=114607You know he's right. The problem is that when Nintendo launched the Wii they also launched this message that the system is "family only" and has no gamer games. This of course is not true to any educated gamers, but most gamers aren't educated. The "Wii Would Like to Play" campaign probably did this, the lack of core promotion for the Wii and the constant pushing of casual titles gave the Wii a false reputation. I know a lot of average gamers, I talked to them and the only titles they know exsist on the Wii is Wii Sports and other fitness based games. I was shocked. I listed games I knew they would love and they had no idea they exsisted! Either way Nintendo was sooo keen on attracting the casual audience that they failed to properly appeal to the core crowd. Even if they started promotion now its too late. All eyes are off the Wii, core gamers have given up on it. Even if they knew there was a core game on there, they wouldn't go back now. The average gamer is increadibly stupid just like any casual consumer. Only gaming nerds like us know better, but sadly we are very few. I just hope Nintendo learns their lesson next generation and tries to promote BOTH casual AND core titles. |
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