On the Origin of Species: Pokémon

[Johans Nidorino]

Maybe it being part Psychic-type has to do with the Jinmenju... and it kind of works as an excuse for keeping Exeggcute's heads together.


Anyway, I was reading Seadra's entry from Gold:

An examination of its cells revealed the presence of a gene not found in HORSEA. It became a hot topic.

I wonder what's the deal with this. Maybe it's something from a real-world seahorse, or, given that Kingdra already existed in the Gold/Silver days, it's hinting at the possibility of Seadra to evolve into a Dragon-type Pokémon.

[The Qu]

Lileep and Cradily folks! After over a month of getting beaten posting this, I beat the usuals to it!

[Johans Nidorino]

Nobody wants to be lied, so I'm glad he cleared me up that thing is not a plant

It doesn't differ much from Anorith and Armaldo being Bug-type... But it's OK as the typing of both fossil families is unique or nearly unique in the game.

[Koopaul]

Well I think Egg types have more to do with Pokemon species than their battle type.

Lileep and Cradily are Water 3 type along with Staryu and the like.

Look at Skorupi. It is not Water type and yet it has Water 3 egg type.

[Shrikeswind]

This is to be expected, of course, although it gets pretty fucked up when you realize that a whale and a kitten can make something. But it does have to do with what kind of animal you are, since the idea of two birds of different species makes more sense than a bird and a starfish, that said, invertebrates are just as unable to make babies with other invertebrates (for example, scorpions and starfish) as a duck and a beaver, although really, it'd be funny if you could do that with the scorpion-starfish (its stars are made of stingers!) as much as a duck-beaver (PLATYPUS, ATTACK!)

In short, it really comes down to whether or not your Pokemon is based on a member of the same Order as another, although in the double-groupers, there is more often a level of "Here's something: The book can also be...a hat!"

[Koopaul]

Still it is on a better level of understanding than their regular types. Just a little.

[Johans Nidorino]

This week's Pokémon is Charmander. The article explains where did the connection between salamanders and fire begin.

[The Qu]

We need a sylph, undine and a gnome Pokemon. That'd be rad.

[Shrikeswind]

Well, naturally, they'd have to be given new designs, since the salamander is the only elemental to have an associated animal. The Gnome could happen pretty easy, we have many gnome-likes in fiction, for example Yoda, while the Undine would have some interesting mythos, though would likely be more piscine or amphibious than the classical Undines, who are basically water women. The Sylph could be tricky to define, since there's very little mythos behind them.

[The Qu]

The best example of a Sylph in fiction would be Ariel from The Tempest. Not quite a sylph, no, but close enough. So there is something you could base it on.

I want to be able to run a team of the elementals from Seiken Denetsu III, dammit! That would be rocking

[Shrikeswind]

I'm pretty sure classical angelology classified Ariel as an archangel. Normally a Shakespearean basis would appeal to me, but the idea of Shakespeare trumping a more important source makes me twitch.

[The Qu]

It doesn't look like anyone has ever likened Ariel to an angel, probably due to being controlled by a ritual. Some classical Demonoligists likened him/her to a demon, but most agreed on a generic air spirit.

[Flip]

Aren't Sylph typically depicted as fey? In Final Fantasy, they're definitely small fairies associated with Wind. But I'm alllll for giving us more Pokemon based on mythical creatures, and legitimately so (no "the idea is similar to THIS," or "we think it MIGHT be this"). I want a Leprechaun, a Selkie, one of those water horses, a Manticore, a Garuda, a Cockatrice, a Basilisk, a Gorgon, a Werewolf, a Vampire, a Zombie... ugh... SOOO many. Every time I see a fakemon for any of these I get all giddy and wet like a schoolgirl. It NEEDS to happen.

That all being said... Egg-groups have ALWAYS been a better indicator of what a Pokemon really "IS" more than typing. Typing, to me, is like saying "attribute." It's not like the Pokemon is ACTUALLY made of flames or a grass elemental, it just means that those are the associations that it has made upon its evolution in terms of behavior, offense, defense, life cycle, etc. Why else would things that are more or less self-descriptive, like Poison, Ghost, Dragon, Bug, and Flying, be considered "types"? In my mind, eggs aren't even naturally made--they're a byproduct of human interactions. Pokemon are actual living creatures with working everything that just happen to be lumped together based on loose associations to similar attributes ("oh look, they both use fire as a defense!") which also happen to give them similar weaknesses/advantages in the wild. Eggs are a better way of actually putting together Pokemon that are related.

[The Qu]

Honestly, Syplh aren't typically depicted as anything- they were pretty much invented for alchemy, so there is no "typical" depiction of them.

And yes. Yes, we need more mythological Pokemon that aren't based on Japanese myth. I still want my umbrella demon though.

[Johans Nidorino]

Aug 19, 2010 9:45:08 GMT -5 Flip said:

That all being said... Egg-groups have ALWAYS been a better indicator of what a Pokemon really "IS" more than typing. Typing, to me, is like saying "attribute." It's not like the Pokemon is ACTUALLY made of flames or a grass elemental, it just means that those are the associations that it has made upon its evolution in terms of behavior, offense, defense, life cycle, etc. Why else would things that are more or less self-descriptive, like Poison, Ghost, Dragon, Bug, and Flying, be considered "types"? In my mind, eggs aren't even naturally made--they're a byproduct of human interactions. Pokemon are actual living creatures with working everything that just happen to be lumped together based on loose associations to similar attributes ("oh look, they both use fire as a defense!") which also happen to give them similar weaknesses/advantages in the wild. Eggs are a better way of actually putting together Pokemon that are related.

To me, both the types and the Egg groups matter equally. Sometimes Egg groups allow Pokémon to be described furtherly when 2 types aren't enough, like with Charizard, Gyarados and Gligar (seriously, a scorpion that isn't Bug nor Poison)? And sometimes even Egg groups aren't enough, and it's when abilities help (Levitate on Flygon).

In terms of comparing with real-world taxonomy, though, Eggs are sometimes what gives them a better one. Ground Egg group is mostly for mammals, Water 1 for amphibians, Water 2 for fish, Water 3 for marine invertebrates, Mineral is self-describing, Bug is for insects and related invertebrates, Humanshape is for primate bodies, Flying is for birds. The rest are either fantastic or non-scientific.