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Post by The Qu on Oct 4, 2010 21:37:23 GMT -5
Monmen & Erufuun This one is deceptively complicated. One might look at Monmen and think, "It's just a cotton spore/ball, ergo Erufuun is a cotten plant." Well, that is true, but in a roundabout way. In the Middle Ages, folks didn't know where cotton came from. I'm not exactly sure when the legends about the following sprang up, but by the mid 1400s the legend of the Vegetable Lamb of Tartary existed. It all began- as far as I can tell- when Sir John Mandeville wrote a book of travels, similar to Marco Polo's (Or Gullivar's Travels, considering the contents, but I digress). In it, he talked shortly of a strange plant that grew in Tartary, an area of Asia, that when cut, revealed flesh similar to that of a lamb. Over the centuries, more were added to the legend. Some said the lamb resembled a true lamb, and was a fruit hanging in the air, suspended by a umbilical cord-like stem. Other said that its blood was sweet, like honey. Outright hoaxes were created, using a fern now called the Cibotium barometz, Barometz being another name for the Vegetable Lamb. When the C. barometz is prepared and inverted, it can resemble the descriptions of a vegetable lamb, as seen here. This is kinda comparable to a botanical equivalent to a Fiji Mermaid, or a Jenny Haniver, longstanding hoaxes using animal carcasses. In fact, Wikipedia has it as one of three entries under the Botanical Cryptids template, alongside man-eating trees and a nasty tree called Umdhlebi. The Vegetable Lamb lives on as a reminder of how silly Medievil bestiaries could be, cropping up from time to time in modern collections of fancifal animals, such as Jorge Luis Borges' astounding Book of Imaginary Beings, in which the inspirations for a few other Pokemon are also included. I'll probably end up referencing back to this book again if I keep doing these. So, in short, Erufuun is based on an explanation for the source of cotton. But in typical Pokemon fashion, it uses exaggerated characteristics and folklore to make it more interesting. EDIT: Here'san article on the excellent Museum of Hoaxes site about Mndeville, including an early depiction of the lamb. Strange stuff indeed. |
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Post by The Qu on Oct 5, 2010 0:35:50 GMT -5
Double post, but with something interesting.  This fanart accurately depicts the Kaiju Destroyah, the monster that killed Godzilla in 1994's Godzilla Vs. Destroyah. Ok, it was more complicated than that, but that's the gist. Much like Giritina, Destoryah had two forms, one serpentine and one... not. Not sure how you would describe the normal form. Also like Giritina, Destroyah is considered flat out evil. Unlike most Kaiju who have redeeming qualites, or are just beasts, Destroyah is just malicious. I have no idea if this is the basis for the anti-matter dragon, but it makes me curious. |
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Post by Johans Nidorino on Oct 5, 2010 1:09:07 GMT -5
Giratina evil? I've yet to see a fully evil version of it  Though the Pokédex entries and its classification name surely give that hint. If the "two forms" thing was intentional, then they had come up with Origin Forme way before Pokémon Platinum. |
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Post by 8bitretroshit on Oct 5, 2010 1:35:13 GMT -5
Y'know I thought Giratina and that new moth thing were kinda lame at first, but with Qu pointing out these Godzilla similarities it makes them a lot better.
Because Godzilla is rad
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Post by The Qu on Oct 5, 2010 1:55:21 GMT -5
If the "two forms" thing was intentional, then they had come up with Origin Forme way before Pokémon Platinum. Not necessarily- Destroyah has at least five forms over the course of the film, with the crab-like form shown above being the third. It seems to get the most merch in Japan, right along with the final demon form. Glad this stuff is making you appreciate Pokemon more, 8bit. When we get more clear info, I'm going to do a write up on the moth- there are quite a few parallels between it and Mothera, enough to personally convince me of the connection. And I'm definently going to do one on Godzilla and Tyranitar- I've been won back over to believing it to be Tyranitar's basis after watching Godzilla Raids Again again. |
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Post by kirbychu on Oct 5, 2010 3:26:02 GMT -5
Also like Giritina, Destroyah is considered flat out evil. Whaaaaat? It's the protector of the balance between space and time! It saves the world from Cyrus in the games, and from Dialga and Palkia's fighting in the anime! And then goes on to help stop Arceus from destroying all humankind! I don't know if it was evil in the manga, but everyone's evil in the manga.  To me its Pokédex entries and it being the Renegade Pokémon suggest that it's more like a cop who had his badge taken away for dealing with criminals with far too much force. The word "renegade" is usually applied to a hero or anti-hero who disregards the law, at least when I've seen it used. |
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Post by The Qu on Oct 5, 2010 3:48:08 GMT -5
I haven't played Platinum yet, but I have read that it saving the world from Cyrus may have been out of more selfish reasons, such as saving its own world. The fact that its Pokedex says it was banished for extreme violence supports the idea that it isn't particularly good.
I don't think the protector of balance of space time has any basis in the games, which usually get canon privileges for me.
As for the manga, it hasn't shown up yet. Platinum and HG/SS both seem to be ongoing, with the unfinished Diamond/Pearl on hold.
Hey guys, I want to do one of these on a gen IV Pokemon since I've done at least one from each other gen. Any requests?
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Post by kirbychu on Oct 5, 2010 3:50:55 GMT -5
I don't think the protector of balance of space time has any basis in the games, which usually get canon privileges for me. While you're in the Distortion World, Cyrus and Cynthia both state that Giratina created it as a way of balancing out distrortions in space and time to protect the real world. I'll try to find the exact quotes. EDIT: Cyrus says this: I can't find Cynthia's quotes, which is annoying because she goes a lot more in-depth about it. She talks about Giratina as the "forgotten hero" of the Sinnoh creation myth. The ruler of time, the ruler of space, and the unsung hero who keeps both in check from the shadows. |
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Post by Johans Nidorino on Oct 5, 2010 9:36:55 GMT -5
(after catching Giratina)
Some compare Giratina to Lucifer because it was created by Arceus and then sent to an underworld place, but none of them is that explicit in any media.
Giratina is like the most friendly of the 3 dimension dragons when Ash asks him if he remembers him in the Arceus movie... that was even "cute". Then again, just like kirbychu points out that "everyone is evil in the manga", one could say "everyone is good in the anime", even the first Darkrai, which was nothing less than a misunderstood hero in the first Sinnoh movie and is considered evil more often than Giratina.
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Post by kirbychu on Oct 5, 2010 11:53:49 GMT -5
They've had three Darkrai in the anime so far. The movie one was a misunderstood hero, then a bad one appeared in a regular episode, and recently a more neutral one appeared owned by a trainer.
But in general the anime likes to show the Pokémon as being like animals. Not inherently good or evil, just acting instinctively to protect themselves/their environments/characters they're attached to.
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Post by The Qu on Oct 5, 2010 19:58:30 GMT -5
All right, I'm going to do a short one and a longer one, the latter being the Gen IV Pokemon. Magnezone might be based on a UFO Catcher, the Japanese equivelant to a crane game. I have zero idea why it would be, but it looks like one:  The UFO is the crane section. Magnezone's magnets look similar to the way the crane's hooks are set up in these. I'm just offering this as a possibility, because it doesn't make much sense. Snover and Abomasnow This is another deceptive one. Most people would look at Snover and merely see a fir tree or something of that sort covered in snow. That's definitely intentional, as seen with Abomasnow's back sprite, but there is a bit more to Snover. Snover is visually based on long white radish called the Daikon radish. The daikon is quite popular in Japan, especially during the winter when they are harvested. They don't have a very long shelf life, even when kept in ideal conditions, so they are usually eaten in the winter. They are apparently quite popular, but I'll be damned if I can find much reference to this. There are a lot of dishes that use them though, if the Wikipedia page is to be believed.  The above is a picture of a daikon in the ground. You can see why the bottom half of Snover is brown- that's the part of the Daikon that is underground, and thus dirt covered. Snover's appearance may also be a reference to the Kanji for mountain, 山.Recognize it? Its Snover's head! But this could be a case of Shaped Like Itself, though, since the kanji is likely a pictogram for a mountain, and Snover already looks like a snow topped mountain. There isn't as much to say about Abomasnow that hasn't been said in the Snover portion. His English name comes from the Abominable Snowman, a name for the mythical/cryptical Yeti of Tibetan folklore. Since you guys aren't morons, I'm sure you know its their equivalent of Bigfoot, the Yeren, Sasquatch, etc. The name Abominable Snowman came from a 1921 expedition to the Tibetan mountains by Lieutenant-Colonel Charles Howard-Bury. Essentially, he came across large tracks and his Sherpa guides said they came from the man-bear snowman, the yeti. Later, someone (a man named Henry Newman) translated that artistically as the Abominable Snowman. Abomasnow's Japanese name can be translated as Snow King, by the way. So the English name is probably accurate in its intention. |
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Post by Koopaul on Oct 5, 2010 22:12:57 GMT -5
But in general the anime likes to show the Pokémon as being like animals. Not inherently good or evil, just acting instinctively to protect themselves/their environments/characters they're attached to. FAAAAAAAAAAAALSE! I would love love love it if this were true but that not the case anymore. In the early episodes this was the case but now the show is like PETA on crack. All Pokemon are good and have hearts of gold and we need to let them sodomize us because we are horrible horrible people who do only wrong. And if a Pokemon looks dangerous and you need to fight back? Shame on you! Jump out in front of its deadly attack to show how much you love it! The Pokemon you own that's your life partner is being a dick for no reason? Clearly it is your fault and you should be ashamed you miserable piece of shit! This is what I've learned from the anime! *GASP* Out of breath... Over did it... |
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Post by Johans Nidorino on Oct 5, 2010 22:24:40 GMT -5
OK, I'm interested in the UFO Catcher thing! Is it frequent enough for it to have been an inspiration?
As for why a magnetic device would evolve into flying saucers, I guess it's simply because flying saucers have been theorized to fly using magnetism.
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Post by The Qu on Oct 5, 2010 22:43:51 GMT -5
There are apparently entire arcades dedicated to the games, so I would say they are pretty popular. And I'm sure they inhabit the same arcade parlors as Pachinko and other penny games, which seem quite popular in Japan as well. Instead of the cheapo items we give away in the states in ours, they give away pretty cool prizes, including plushes only available in them.
There is a Digimon modeled off of one, which shows its somewhat popular, and I think there was one in Final Fantasy VII, possibly giving the Golden Saucer its name.
I'm just glad someone else can see the resemblance!
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Post by kirbychu on Oct 6, 2010 1:13:34 GMT -5
FAAAAAAAAAAAALSE! I would love love love it if this were true but that not the case anymore. In the early episodes this was the case but now the show is like PETA on crack. All Pokemon are good and have hearts of gold and we need to let them sodomize us because we are horrible horrible people who do only wrong. And if a Pokemon looks dangerous and you need to fight back? Shame on you! Jump out in front of its deadly attack to show how much you love it! The Pokemon you own that's your life partner is being a dick for no reason? Clearly it is your fault and you should be ashamed you miserable piece of shit! This is what I've learned from the anime! *GASP* Out of breath... Over did it... Sounds like you've been watching the dub. I quit watching it in English because they insist on changing the story to make everything rainbows and sunshine at all times. And... y'know... the antagonistic Darkrai I was talking about was in a more recent episode... since Darkrai didn't exist in the early anime... |
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Though the Pokédex entries and its classification name surely give that hint.
