Thoughts on a playable Golden Sun character

[Arcadenik]

I know that a lot of fans want a playable Golden Sun character (whether it is Isaac or Matthew is up for debate but my money is on Matthew) in the next Smash Bros. I think I have come up with a good moveset that reflects the gameplay of the Golden Sun games. A character's available Psynergy change whenever their Djinn change states in the Golden Sun games. What I came up with is something that is loosely based on that concept. Okay, I really hope you guys can understand what I am trying to explain/describe. I am just going to show you his special moves first and then I will explain them and how they work.

B: Quake (0-1), Thorn (2-3), Gaia (4)

If you have no Djinn or one Djinni, you are able to use the Quake Psynergy. If you have two or three Djinn, you are able to use the Thorn Psynergy. If you have four Djinn, you are able to use the Gaia Psynergy. This is essentially a charging move where the longer you hold down the B button, the stronger the move gets and the bigger its range grows. The closer the opponent is to the Adept, the more damage the opponent gets.

Quake: 0-2 seconds (up to 6%)
Earthquake: 3-6 seconds (up to 17%)
Quake Sphere: 7+ seconds (up to 32%)

Thorn: 0-3 seconds (up to 11%)
Briar: 4-8 seconds (up to 23%)
Nettle - 9+ seconds (up to 46%)

Gaia: 0-4 seconds (up to 10%)
Mother Gaia: 5-10 seconds (up to 25%)
Grand Gaia - 11+ seconds (up to 50%)

Side B: Move / Force / Grip (0-4)

This move is available at all times regardless of the number of Djinn you have on standby. Simply tilt the control stick while pressing the B button and the Psynergy hand will appear out of thin air. The hand will harmlessly move the opponents away from the Adept. The longer you hold down the B button, the hand will continue to move off screen... but there is a catch. While you are holding down the B button, the Adept will be unable to defend himself from behind because he is immobile... just like Snake is during his Side B move. Simply release the B button to end the Move Psynergy. This move is pretty useful for pushing opponents off the stage.

Smash the control stick while pressing the B button and the Psynergy hand will appear in the form of a fist. The punching hand will move faster in a short distance, I would say about the distance of Link's boomerang. The hand will disappear after it travels a certain distance or after it punches an opponent. This is the Force Psynergy and it has decent knockback.

If you are falling off the stage and you are very far from the ledge that the Growth Psynergy isn't enough, simply use the Grip Psynergy instead. Tilt the control stick towards the ledge and press the B button and the Psynergy hand will appear and seek out the nearest ledge. The hand will automatically grip on the ledge and pull you towards the ledge. I would say that this move would function similarly to Ivysaur's Vine Whip and Zero Suit Samus's Side B move. This can be used as a secondary recovery.

Up B: Growth (0-4)

I mentioned the Growth Psynergy briefly. Yes, the Growth Psynergy is the Adept's recovery move and it is available at all times, regardless of the number of Psynergy you have on standby. Push the control stick up and press the B button to make a vine grow. The vine is fast-growing and the Adept starts climbing on it like the characters climb ladders in Brawl. Once the Adept climbs up and you feel it is high enough to jump off the vine to reach the ledge safely, press the jump button or use the Grip Psynergy to reach the ledge.

Down B: Flint (0-3), Ragnarok (4)

This is the most important move of all and is the Adept's defining trait. The Adept will have up to four Djinn following behind him. They are a little bit smaller than Olimar's Pikmin but they are large enough to be visible and they are intangible, too. They are all Venus Djinn, of course, because Isaac and Matthew are both Venus Adepts.

If the Adept appears to have no Djinn floating around, it means the Djinn are recovering and you cannot use the Down B move. Once a Djinni is recovered after a 10-second waiting period, it materializes out of thin air as a floating orb. This is when you are now able to use the Down B move. Once you use the Down B move, the floating orb transforms into a Venus Djinn and you use your Djinni-powered sword to attack "with a blow that can cleave stone". Now you have one Djinni floating around you. This is how you set a Djinni on standby.

You are once again unable to use the Down B move until a second orb appears. When it appears, you can use the Down B move to strike your opponents with your Djinni-powered sword. Afterwards, you cannot use the Down B move until a third orb appears. This repeats with the fourth orb as well. This is assuming that you use the Down B move as soon as a new orb appears... this is to prevent the players from spamming this powerful move.

But what happens after you use the fourth orb? Now, you can use the Down B move repeatedly but this time, you are using the Ragnarok Psynergy instead of the Djinni. Ragnarok, I envision, would be similar to Pikachu's Down B move, with a massive sword striking from the sky. This is a powerful move that could potentially score KO's at high damages, especially with the explosion on the ground where the sword hits.

Final Smash: Odyssey (0), Venus (1), Ramses (2), Cybele (3), Judgment (4)

Yes, you read that right. Five different Final Smashes for one character! Which Final Smash you get to use depends entirely on the number of Djinn you have on standby. There are two ways to lose all your Djinn. One way is getting KO'd off the stage. Using Final Smashes is the other way.

When you have no Djinn, you can only use the Odyssey Psynergy as your Final Smash. This is basically a stronger version of the Ragnarok Psynergy but it has a horizontal range that deals massive damage on multiple opponents with high knockback. I would probably compare it to Samus's Final Smash.

If you have one Djinni, you can use the Venus summon. With two Djinn, the Ramses summon. With three Djinn, the Cybele summon. With four Djinn, the Judgment summon. After you use the summon, you lose all your Djinn and they are now in recovery mode. And you will not be able to use the Down B move for the next 10 seconds.

Umm... I hope it wasn't too confusing for you. LOL So, comments? Suggestions? Criticism? Praise?

[nocturnal YL]

....So many threads of this type. I myself have simply concluded that Smash Bros simply isn't exactly a good place for trying to glue everything Nintendo-related together with all those half-fledged representations with certain series (Brawl: everything Zelda is either TP or WW, and Fire Emblem 4 & 5 don't exist), poor choices of moves (Ike's Ragnell isn't elemental at all, so what's going on wiht that natural B Eruption move? (Or better yet, what is Ranger Ike doing with Ragnell?) They explained such weirdness in the MOTHER games, but did poorly here... Not to mention the Fox/Falco/Wolf craziness, they should be made distinct even further), Sakuraism (what exactly are those stage and music choices?) and so on.

That said, on a realistic ground they're never going to make a character that actually honours the original games, especially when they can't understand the original or if it is too complicated.

Well, actual comments here...

The whole system actually sounds a bit too complivated for Smash Bros. They do have recharging mechanisms in it, but those are really just between allowing a move to be made or not. It would make sense if the distinction is between two moves or a single move of different strength (neutral B should make either series of moves instead of cramming three series into a button).

The Final Smash quite falls into the "not honouring the original games" category to me, since when can you make summons out of set Djinn? Either discard the whole system citing gameplay reason, or use it as close to the original as possible, that'd be my opinion. I myself would have preferred a once-and-for-all Odyssey, or just ignore the whole summon system and make the Final Smash call Charon, to make things more dramatic.

[Dances in Undergarments]

Christ, you're a bit anal YL. Responsibility one of a video game should be to make a video game, not a pitch-perfect Nintendo wankfest. Nobody cares that attacks work slightly different to how they work in game. Have you noticed that the Pokemon can attack twice in a row without somebody attacking in the middle, too? OH NOES.

As for this moveset - I have to admit, I'm fairly lost. Perhaps its because I've never played Golden Sun, but I don't get it. The djinns seem to turn to orbs, but I can't work out how that happens. Do they get turned into orbs as 'payment', so to speak, for the other attacks - ie. if I use Gaia, my 4 djinns all turn into orbs? Then, I have to use that down B attack 4 times (10 seconds apart each time?) in order to build them all back up (so it'll take me 40 seconds to build myself up to full strength)? I'm seriously baffled.

Theres also a shitload of moves here, and its a bit ridiculous in my opinion. I would suggest losing a bunch of the final smashes (how often do you get a final smash? Having 5 on one character when FSs are that rare seems like a gigantic waste), and for the B move, set it to one 'family' of attacks but have the different moves only available when you have the correct number of djinns. So, basically,
0/1 djinn - you can only use Quake, regardless of how long you charge
2/3 djinn - you can use Quake if you charge for 0-2 seconds, then it becomes Earthquake
4 djinn - you can use Quake if you charge for 0-2 seconds, you can use Earthquake if you charge for 3-6 seconds, then it becomes Quake sphere.
Something like that, anyway.

EDIT: I just realised I just pretty much made him Olimar. I'm not sure how else he could work, though.

[Shadrio]

a) oh so long and it requires knowledge on a series I'm not really interested in learning about. Got bored half way in.

b) YL: Brawl was never tailor made to be perfect (do you see Mewtwo? I don't). Though things like Ness and Lucas using PK Starstorm makes little sense, it was always known that Brawl was going to have the latest representation of each character, hence Command Fox, TP Boomerang and Claw Shot for Link. I'm pretty sure some things in Brawl are because not much resources for some characters (Paralyzer Whip for ZSSamus), laziness (Falco not using his Arwing for his Final Smash, how only Wario has 2 different models and other characters, like Ike [Ranger/Lord/Hero] or Samus [Power/Varia/Dark/Fusion suits] don't and how Snake's 3 Taunts are virtually the same fudgin' thing) or fanbois with no patience (Where's my Mewtwo? D:, Horrid Online and subpar Stage Builder).

c) DiU: Pretty much what I thought. The other characters have to adapt to another genre, which is Fighting. Mario wins nothing by stomping another character's head, Fox isn't in his Arwing and Olimar is now taking the hits instead of being a leader.

Anyway, enough of this or that, time to think about the actual idea...

I'm finding it overly complicated, especially for Smash. How about watering it out a bit, like giving the player the ability to choose between Djinn, like some Down B or, a personal favorite, like the Fanmade Wisp, who changes element with a quick taunt. Could be something like R+D Pad Direction. The only thing I learned for the little time I spent playing Golden Sun (the game bored me after a par of bosses) is that there are different elemented Djinn, and since Brawl ain't to be copy-paste perfect, the character could be using more than 1 elemented Djinn at will. Food for thought.

[Boo Destroyer]

May 23, 2011 19:01:31 GMT -5 Dances in Undergarments said:

Christ, you're a bit anal YL. Responsibility one of a video game should be to make a video game, not a pitch-perfect Nintendo wankfest. Nobody cares that attacks work slightly different to how they work in game. Have you noticed that the Pokemon can attack twice in a row without somebody attacking in the middle, too? OH NOES.

May 23, 2011 21:20:11 GMT -5 Shadrio said:

c) DiU: Pretty much what I thought. The other characters have to adapt to another genre, which is Fighting. Mario wins nothing by stomping another character's head, Fox isn't in his Arwing and Olimar is now taking the hits instead of being a leader.

Yeah, these basically reflect what I said in the Zoroark thread earlier.

[Arcadenik]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I went back to the drawing board to revise and simplify my Djinn idea. After researching how the Djinn works during a battle in the DS game, let me just say this: the Djinn comes in three modes: set, standby, and recovery.

The Adept enters the match with four orbs floating around him. These orbs are Djinn in recovery mode. What does the recovery mode mean? It means that the Adept is not able to use the Djinn while they are recovering. The Adept is not able to use his Down B move while the Djinn are recovering. It won't stay like this for long because after 10 seconds, one orb disappears and three orbs remain.

What does that mean? That means one of the Djinn is set to the Adept. When a Djinn is set to an Adept, that Djinn is available for the Adept to use. The Adept uses the Djinn by performing his Down B move. What does this Down B move do? Flint, the Venus Djinni, is unleashed and the Adept attacks his opponents with his Djinni-powered sword.

After using the Djinni, the Djinni appears in its true form, not as an orb. What does this mean? It means that Djinni is now on standby. How do you know when a Djinni is on standby? When you can see a Djinni floating behind the Adept. When a Djinni is on standby, it can be used for a Summon in the Adept's Final Smash. However, using a Final Smash will set the Djinn back to recovery mode. The Adept will then be unable to use the Down B move for the next 10 seconds.

If the player waits 20 seconds but he did not use the first set Djinni, the second orb will disappear and the Adept will be able to spam the Down B move twice under 10 seconds before the third orb disappears. If the player is patient for 40 seconds, the Adept could potentially be able to spam the Down B move four times in a row, setting all four Djinn to standby mode in a row, and he is able to use the Ragnarok Psynergy repeatedly (like any other regular Down B moves) instead of setting more Djinn on standby and waiting for Djinn to be set to him.

Maybe I need a flowchart?

- Adept enters match with 4 orbs, he is unable to use Down B
- 10 seconds later, one orb disappears and one Djinni is set to the Adept (you cannot see the Djinni but you can see three orbs left)
- Adept can use Down B only once (Flint) to set the Djinni on standby (you can see the Djinni) or wait 10 more seconds for a second Djinni to be set to him (you cannot see the second Djinni but you can see two orbs left)
- Adept can use Down B only twice (Flint) to set the Djinn on standby (you can see two Djinn) or wait 10 more seconds for a third Djinni to be set to him (you cannot see the third Djinni but you can see one orb left)
- Adept can use Down B only thrice (Flint) to set the Djinn on standby (you can see three Djinn) or wait 10 more seconds for a fourth Djinni to be set to him (you cannot see the fourth Djinni but you cannot see any orbs left)
- Adept can use Down B four times (Flint) to set the Djinn on standby (you can see three Djinn) and then he can use Down B infinitely (Ragnarok) like anyone (you can see four Djinn but you cannot see any orbs left)

- Adept has 4 orbs and uses Final Smash (Odyssey)
- Adept has no orbs but none of the Djinn are on standby and uses Final Smash (Odyssey)
- Adept has 1 Djinni on standby and uses Final Smash (Venus)
- Adept has 2 Djinn on standby and uses Final Smash (Ramses)
- Adept has 3 Djinn on standby and uses Final Smash (Cybele)
- Adept has 4 Djinn on standby and uses Final Smash (Judgment)
- Adept uses Final Smash (any) and all Djinn are reverted to orbs

Is this system easier to follow and understand than my previous system?

As to your question, DiU, using Gaia will not change a Djinni's state because it is neither a Down B move nor a Final Smash. The only way to change a Djinni's state is to wait 10/20/30/40 seconds for each Djinni to change from an orb (recovery mode) to an invisible Djinni (set mode). Using the Down B move will turn the invisible Djinni (set mode) to become visible and appear out of thin air (standby mode). Using a Final Smash will turn a visible Djinni (standby mode) into an orb (recovery mode). The sequence starts over again. The quickest way to turn your Djinn, whether they are set or on standby, into recovering orbs is to fall off the stage. It would flow like this:

Orb (recovery) > (10/20/30/40 seconds > Invisible (set) > Down B (Flint) > Visible (standby) this sequence can be looped up to four times) > Final Smash (summon) > Orb (recovery) > and so on...

Invisible (set) > Death > Orb (recovery)
Visible (standby) > Death > Orb (recovery)

Now, on to the three Psynergy series in one button. The reason for this is that since the B move is already a charging move, the Adept could use Quake/Earthquake/Quake Sphere. Earthquake is just a stronger version of Quake and Quake Sphere is just a stronger version of Earthquake. That, to me, made sense to have them put together into one charging move.

Now, why do we need Thorn/Briar/Nettle and Gaia/Mother Gaia/Grand Gaia? Sure, we don't really need them but I thought that they would pay homage to another gameplay mechanic of the Golden Sun games. You see, in the original games, the Adept can access many kinds of Psynergy but not at all times. The Adept's class influences which Psynergy are available and unavailable to him in the games. The Adept's class changes based on the types of Djinn he has in his possession and their states. Whenever the Adept's Djinn are set, he can use one Psynergy and when the Adept's Djinn are on standby, he loses that Psynergy but gains a new Psynergy.

Maybe they could have different effects to make each of them stand out from each other even though the function is the same. The Quake Psynergy series could work like Donkey Kong's Down B move. The Thorn Psynergy series could inflict poison status on the opponents (like the Lip's Stick item) when it is fully charged. The Gaia Psynergy series could trap opponents underground (like the Pitfall item) when it is fully charged.

So, yeah.. 0-1 Djinni grants the Adept access to the Quake Psynergy series. 2-3 Djinn grants the Adept access to the Thorn Psynergy series. 4 Djinn grants the Adept access to the Gaia Psynergy series.

Again, I ask... is this more clear or is it still confusing?

[nocturnal YL]

I said Smash Bros isn't fit for the purpose of putting everything together, not Smash Bros should become what I described (it shouldn't, since you people have said it - they have to fit in the genre). To reinforce it, let me quote myself here...

I myself have simply concluded that Smash Bros simply isn't exactly a good place for trying to glue everything Nintendo-related together

I did say things should hang onto the originals, but that's as much as the game allows. But I definitely wouldn't want to see a system that looks and feels like it's mimicking the original mechanics but is not, since it sounds like an insult there.

Either discard the whole system citing gameplay reason, or use it as close to the original as possible, that'd be my opinion.

[Dances in Undergarments]

I understand now what is going on, but it does seem hugely complicated. YL's point about not needing to be exactly accurate is correct, and this feels like it is trying to be too accurate to the point of becoming convoluted.

[Arcadenik]

Hmm... I see your point. It does look complicated. I did not intend for it to appear convoluted. So, I reworked my ideas to try to make it more simple and user-friendly. I am discarding the Djinn system and replacing it with the class system.

Basically, what it means is that the Adept changes classes with the Down B move. You can change classes at anytime without waiting for 10 seconds. The Adept has four classes and they are Squire, Brute, Apprentice, and Swordsman. They change the Adept's B move and Final Smash. I am keeping the Side B and Up B intact because it seems that most people aren't commenting on them, only the B move, Down B, and Final Smash.

The Adept can start the match in any class when you simply select one of four Djinn on the character select screen much like how you can select one of Pokemon Trainer's startes. The four Djinn are Venus (orange), Mars (red), Jupiter (purple), and Mercury (blue).

Venus = Squire class
Mars = Brute class
Jupiter = Apprentice class
Mercury = Swordsman class

Squire class
B: Ragnarok / Odyssey
It is still a charging move. Simply tap the B button and you will get a weak Ragnarok that is comparable to Ike's uncharged Eruption. Hold down the B button for 2 seconds and you will get a stronger Ragnarok with bigger range. A charged Ragnarok would be comparable to Pikachu's Thunder in terms of power and range. Hold down the B button for 5 seconds and you will get Odyssey. Odyssey is a powerful projectile that moves straight ahead from the Adept much like Samus's fully charged shot.

Final Smash: Venus Summon
The Adept summons Venus. The summon looks like a giant Venus Djinni and it causes orange energy to explode from the ground to engulf the opponents.

I know Venus is orange, not green. I just didn't want to bother your eyes with orange text on a white background.

Brute class
B: Blast / Mad Blast / Fiery Blast
It is still a charging move. Simply tap the B button to shoot a fireball from the sword (Blast). Hold down the B button for 2 seconds and the fireball will be bigger that causes bigger explosion (Mad Blast). Hold down the B button for 5 seconds and the fireball will be much bigger with much bigger explosion (Fiery Blast). This move essentially works the same way as Samus's Charge Shot.

Final Smash: Mars Summon
The Adept summons Mars. The summon looks like a giant Mars Djinni and it dives into the stage and setting off a fiery explosion.

Apprentice class
B: Astral Blast / Thunder Mine
Tap the B button and the sword will shoot few star-shaped electric projectiles (Astral Blast). Hold down the B button and the sword will rapidly shoot these stars like Ivysaur's Bullet Seed. They are as powerful as Fox's Blaster. You can move the control stick around to change the angle of these stars much like the Cracker Launcher. Keep holding the B button for 5 seconds and the sword will shoot one large ball of plasma-like energy (Thunder Mine) that is as powerful as Samus's fully-charged shot. Then the sword will stop shooting projectiles and you must press the B button again.

Final Smash: Jupiter Summon
The Adept summons Jupiter. The summon looks like a giant Jupiter Djinni and it brings showers of large purple orbs to assault the opponents.

Swordsman class
B: Thorn / Briar / Nettle
It is still a charging move. Tap the B button and a pair of thorns will pop out of the ground (Thorn) in front of the Adept. Hold down the B button for 2 seconds and bigger thorns will pop out of the ground (Briar). Hold down the B button for 5 seconds and the biggest thorns will pop out of the ground (Nettle).

Final Smash: Mercury Summon
The Adept summons Mercury. The summon looks like a giant Mercury Djinni and it brings jets of blue energy that shoot through the opponents.

I hope it is more improved, simplified, and user-friendly.

EDIT: Nice! This is my 1500th post.

[Manspeed]

Why don't you just have Issac be our Golden Sun character and just give him a normal moveset? If there's one thing I don't like about Brawl, its that its implanted this idea in people's heads that every new character has to gave a gimmick moveset.

[Arcadenik]

There is no guarantee that the Golden Sun character would be Isaac, especially with Matthew being the protagonist of the latest game in the series. Honestly, I couldn't care less who since they are basically the same character with same powers but with different names and clothes. It is like complaining about Ninten getting in over Ness when he looks the same as Ness and he has the same powers as Ness does.

Anyway, you wanted a normal moveset? Okay, how about this one?

B: Quake / Earthquake / Quake Sphere
Side B: Move / Force / Grip
Up B: Growth
Down B: Ragnarok
Final Smash: Odyssey

I think the reason why people thinks "every new character has to have a gimmick moveset" is because most people disliked how many clones we got in Melee and they prefer characters to be unique and different from each other.

I just thought of something else... If Isaac gets in, would he be his teenager self as in the first two games or would he be an adult like in the new game? If he is an teenager, he would be smaller, lighter, weaker, and faster. If he is an adult, he would be bigger, heavier, stronger, and slower. Hmmm... if Ike gets the boot, we could get adult Isaac as our new heavyweight sword fighter.

[nocturnal YL]

This actually makes more sense in a realistic situation, since the system in GS is a bit too complicated for Smash Bros and the devs probably know nothing about the series.

I don't really like the idea of Issac and Matthew both playable. They could have used some different-styled characters (say, Sveta, who probably has more potential in a fighting game than Matthew) - something I see problematic in how they represented MOTHER, Fire Emblem and (again) Star Fox.

May 24, 2011 16:32:38 GMT -5 Arcadenik said:

Hmmm... if Ike gets the boot, we could get adult Isaac as our new heavyweight sword fighter.

There is no guarantee as of what FE13 (or later) will look like. Although to be honest, I seriously hope the next FE rep would use something other than swords.

[Arcadenik]

Personally, I wouldn't mind Caeda from Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon. She uses lances and she rides a winged horse (possible Final Smash).

Back to Golden Sun, which one made sense to you? The one with the changing classes or the normal one I made for Man Frog?

[Shrikeswind]

I kinda like this idea...

Isaac (being that his plot took two games and were the series opener AND he's present in all three, well, in this series, he is the star. It's him.)

Generally, he'd be kinda more like Link, but more agile and weaker.

Up-B is Retreat. This seems obvious to me. He teleports away in a shower of Psynergy stars.

B is based on the Djinn idea and is the Ragnarok family. As time progresses, more Djinn power him up to create more power. 0-2 is Ragnarok, 3-4 is Odyssey. More charge time means Isaac does more damage but uses more Djinn. No Djinn used/available means he just shoots it off automatically. You get 2 full-powered Ragnaroks or 1 full-powered Odyssey if you have a full quartet of Djinn at your disposal. Your charge is Marth-style, meaning you hold to charge and attack on release. With 0 Djinn or button tapping, Ragnarok does like, 6 damage, but fires off quick. Hold, it goes to 12, then 20, then Odyssey does 12 per sword for 36 max, then 20 per sword for 60 max, but you gotta sit there like an idiot open to anything for ages to get it off.

Side-B is Move or Force. No Grip. Move pushes enemies away about 5 blocks straight and has a high resistance (meaning it's fairly tough to run into the hand and make it through,) while Force only covers 3 but does like, 15 damage.

Down-B is Quake family. Also uses Djinn. 0-1 is Quake, 2-3 is Earthquake, 4 is Quake Sphere. Using Djinn increases tremor distance on odd numbers, meaning 1 Djinn makes the tremor 1.5x the size of 0 Djinn, and on even numbers puts out another tremor that goes as far as the previous one at minimum, meaning 1-Djinn tremor and 2-Djinn go as far as each other. 0-Djinn Quake's tremor is the size of DK's Ground Slap, 1-Djinn Quake goes 1.5x that, while 3-Djinn Earthquake goes double Ground Slap.

Final is some kinda Summon, but doesn't use Djinn. Smash Ball provides an alternate method of summon or something.

[nocturnal YL]

May 24, 2011 17:49:06 GMT -5 Arcadenik said:

Back to Golden Sun, which one made sense to you? The one with the changing classes or the normal one I made for Man Frog?

The latter. Not saying all those things you came up with aren't good, but Smash Bros seems to use relatively simple moves as a basis of some much more complicated interactivity.