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Post by The Qu on Aug 29, 2012 9:11:08 GMT -5
Grass Land = replace with Cookie Land (based on Yoshi's Cookie and Cookie Land from Mario Kart: Double Dash) , etc I'm just going to come out and say this is honestly one of the better ideas I've seen for a Mario game that have come out of fans. I'd quite like a fangame based on this now. |
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Post by TV Eye on Aug 29, 2012 16:49:39 GMT -5
It seems like the only way to make people stop complaining about NSMB games is if they made worlds with new themes. This. It's nice that that add little things like Yoshi and new powerups, but unless the levels themselves don't feel very different...then it gets stale. Fast. At least for me. |
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Post by kirbychu on Aug 29, 2012 18:00:05 GMT -5
That's the one argument in this entire thread that I can understand. I mean, it's no skin off my nose either way, I don't really care whether I'm seeing pyramids or trees or whatever in the distance, but I can understand some people getting sick of it always being similar stuff back there. It probably doesn't phase me because I got into the series back when a solid colour fill passed for a backdrop.
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Post by Arcadenik on Aug 29, 2012 18:50:48 GMT -5
^^^
I love my Super Mario All-Stars (SNES version) but I was actually tired of seeing the same backgrounds for the past 20 years, especially the GBA remakes and the extremely lazy Super Mario All-Stars for the Wii. That's why I downloaded the NES versions from Virtual Console. It really does feel different even though the controls/gameplay/levels/etc. are exactly the same.
This is pretty much why I think most of these criticisms about NSMB games is really about - how reusing the same world themes for 4 games (DS, Wii, 3DS, Wii U) makes the series seem stale. IMO, it doesn't really bother me that much since the games each have different levels/power-ups/boss fights/etc. despite reusing the same world themes.
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Post by TV Eye on Aug 29, 2012 18:54:24 GMT -5
That's the one argument in this entire thread that I can understand. I mean, it's no skin off my nose either way, I don't really care whether I'm seeing pyramids or trees or whatever in the distance, but I can understand some people getting sick of it always being similar stuff back there. It probably doesn't phase me because I got into the series back when a solid colour fill passed for a backdrop. It's not only the backgrounds, it's the themes. SMB3 had the Giant Level. SMW had vertical mountain climbing levels. Then there also needs to be new enemies as well. In every NSMB, all you fight are Goomba's, Koopa's, Boo's, Dry Bones, and the bosses. That's pretty much it. The Mario series has a wide assortment of enemies to choose from, why don't they add some more? Or hell, CREATE some new ones? |
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Post by Arcadenik on Aug 29, 2012 19:04:22 GMT -5
Speaking of themes and enemies, SMB2 (aka Doki Doki Panic) really changed everything. No Goombas, no Koopas, no Lakitus, no swimming, no jumping on enemies, no Fire Flowers, no Bowser, no pipes. But it did introduce new elements that would eventually become staples for the series. Shy Guys, Bob-ombs, Pokeys, Birdos, vegetables, Peach and Toad as strong leading heroes (just kidding!), grass worlds, desert worlds, ice worlds, and sky worlds. It was a radical departure from the traditional Mario formula and it wasn't any surprising that it wasn't well-received.
So, it seems to me that no matter what Nintendo does - keeps Mario the same as is like they are doing now or they change the game radically like they did with SMUSA - fans won't be happy.
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Post by Koopaul on Aug 29, 2012 21:07:27 GMT -5
Hey here's something I really loved was Super Mario Land 2.
They tackled themes that weren't done before and gave us unique bosses. It also wasn't as fast paced or linear, it had a bit more exploration than most Mario games, so it indeed felt different.
Oh and themes do play a role in gameplay. In the water world you have a lot of underwater stages obviously. In an ice world you have slippery platforming. Desert you have sinking quicksand and so on.
I figure a whole world based on Cookies and Cake would have a lot of bouncy gelatin, cake icing that would get you stuck, and crumbling cookie platforms.
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Post by Nester the Lark on Aug 29, 2012 21:21:29 GMT -5
I figure a whole world based on Cookies and Cake would have a lot of bouncy gelatin, cake icing that would get you stuck, and crumbling cookie platforms. The problem is I wouldn't be able to play it without a glass of milk.  |
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Post by TV Eye on Aug 29, 2012 22:30:54 GMT -5
Hey here's something I really loved was Super Mario Land 2. They tackled themes that weren't done before and gave us unique bosses. It also wasn't as fast paced or linear, it had a bit more exploration than most Mario games, so it indeed felt different. Oh and themes do play a role in gameplay. In the water world you have a lot of underwater stages obviously. In an ice world you have slippery platforming. Desert you have sinking quicksand and so on. I figure a whole world based on Cookies and Cake would have a lot of bouncy gelatin, cake icing that would get you stuck, and crumbling cookie platforms. Which is why I find it weird we haven't seen a space level in a 2D Mario game since then. Especially after Super Mario Galaxy's success. You'd have low gravity and in some areas you'd be walking on the ceiling. In fact, even the stages from Donkey Kong '94 would be a welcome addition! Why haven't we seen a jungle world? Or a City (with construction site)? Or hell, an airplane! |
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Post by Fryguy64 on Aug 30, 2012 2:07:07 GMT -5
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Post by kirbychu on Aug 30, 2012 5:53:56 GMT -5
It's not only the backgrounds, it's the themes. SMB3 had the Giant Level. SMW had vertical mountain climbing levels. Then there also needs to be new enemies as well. In every NSMB, all you fight are Goomba's, Koopa's, Boo's, Dry Bones, and the bosses. That's pretty much it. The Mario series has a wide assortment of enemies to choose from, why don't they add some more? Or hell, CREATE some new ones? Argh! No, it's just the backgrounds. The NSMB games are already full of all-new stage gimmicks, enemies, powerups... as we've already pointed out a hundred times in this thread. You guys are so focused on the backgrounds being similar, you can't seem to see that the foregrounds are completely different. One of my favourite stages in NSMBWii was the sandstorm one. It's really fun and completely new, but it has a desert background. Does that make it boring and uninspired? I don't think so. Same goes for NSMB and its volcanic eruption stage. I love that one, and it was the first time the series did something like that. But it's lava themed. So I guess that's old hat too. There are loads of brand new stage themes in the games that are being completely overlooked here seemingly just because of what you can see off in the distance. Aside from the ones I already mentioned earlier in the thread, what about the darkness stages, where you need a Fire Flower or to rely on Fire-based enemies to see where you're going? What about that awesome penguin slide stage? What about the Tarzan vine-swinging stage or the giant Wiggler cave? The raft on the poison swamp, where you have to knock the enemies off to keep it from losing speed and stopping? The flying manta-riding stage? The stage with the giant flying bubbles of water you have to jump into and swim through? The stage where the only thing there is to stand on is Parabeetles? The Bonecoaster! Now, I'm not against the idea of them doing some new world themes, but the idea that not doing that has any detrimental effect on the quality or creativity on the level design of these ones is utter bullshit. There was a shit ton of new stuff in NSMB, and if you're choosing to ignore it because it didn't take place on a giant cake or a pair of tits or whatever, then that's just retarded. |
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Post by Shadrio on Aug 30, 2012 10:16:25 GMT -5
Man, all this NSMB talk makes me want to play the DS version again. Always try to got back to the Wii version, but I don't really enjoy it. That, and I love how passionate some posts seem to be. They seem like a political conversation in my country between a communist and a republican, valid yet extremist points of view. As far as I see it, the NSMB series is a series that brought Mario back to the 2D platforming he was known for, brought in some fun new ideas but has some poor design choices, some that influence the consummer on a varried scale. Personally, I find it blasphemous that Wario wasn't in NSMBW and, even worse, there were two toads. I also find the art direction and the music insipid and dull and that Yoshi was horribly implemented in NSMBW. But others don't have problems with that. This thread is titled "What I hate about New Super Mario Bros.", meaning it's just an opinion. Doesn't mean its wrong, doesn't mean it is right and it doesn't mean you have to agree. As for what I would most love to see in a series like this is an interesting art direction and great music. I mean, wouldn't you love to play an entire game with an art style like this (I know NSMBU will have a painting-esque level with boos in it, so that's a start)? I know others see it as cosmetic, but for me, it decides where my money will go. |
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Post by kirbychu on Aug 30, 2012 10:52:16 GMT -5
This thread is titled "What I hate about New Super Mario Bros.", meaning it's just an opinion. That's the title of the thread, but the content of it actually reads "It's a fact that NSMB is shitty and lazy, here's a list of things it should have done" followed by a list of things it did do. What Fryguy and I have been doing is pointing out that those things people are complaining weren't there (new enemies, new gameplay elements, new moves, unique stages) are actually there, and then the people complaining are stomping their feet and saying "WELL THEY WEREN'T THERE, OKAY?" and repeating their previous argument. There's no argument with stuff like art and music, that's totally subjective. Personally I don't care much for NSMB's soundtrack, but I love NSMBWii's to bits. |
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Post by TV Eye on Aug 30, 2012 16:26:01 GMT -5
It's not only the backgrounds, it's the themes. SMB3 had the Giant Level. SMW had vertical mountain climbing levels. Then there also needs to be new enemies as well. In every NSMB, all you fight are Goomba's, Koopa's, Boo's, Dry Bones, and the bosses. That's pretty much it. The Mario series has a wide assortment of enemies to choose from, why don't they add some more? Or hell, CREATE some new ones? Argh! No, it's just the backgrounds. The NSMB games are already full of all-new stage gimmicks, enemies, powerups... as we've already pointed out a hundred times in this thread. Oh right! Like...adding movable platforms! And...sand geysers! And more ice...and more lava geysers... Look, I understand they add new things to the existing worlds, but why not just CHANGE the worlds THEMSELVES! You're acting like I'm refusing to listen to your claims, but everything YOU praise, I see as just an added gimmick! |
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Post by kirbychu on Aug 30, 2012 16:47:18 GMT -5
Oh right! Like...adding movable platforms! And...sand geysers! And more ice...and more lava geysers... ...I didn't say any of those things. None of those were new. Did you even read my post? I listed ten full stage themes that were entirely new right there. Look, I understand they add new things to the existing worlds, but why not just CHANGE the worlds THEMSELVES! You're acting like I'm refusing to listen to your claims, but everything YOU praise, I see as just an added gimmick! I think I'm going to have to give up here, because we've looped back to the start again. You want new stuff, but you just see the new stuff as added gimmicks? Do you not see how insane this argument has gotten?  I think I need a stiff drink. |
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