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Post by Fryguy64 on Aug 30, 2012 16:47:45 GMT -5
Oh no Teev! You said the 'G' word, instantly demolishing your position.
But I shall humour you first. What is your definition of a "gimmick" there? Please be very clear, particularly with reference to why absolutely everything on your wishlist isn't also a "gimmick".
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Post by TV Eye on Aug 30, 2012 17:48:09 GMT -5
Oh no Teev! You said the 'G' word, instantly demolishing your position. But I shall humour you first. What is your definition of a "gimmick" there? Please be very clear, particularly with reference to why absolutely everything on your wishlist isn't also a "gimmick". Okay, maybe I am being a little biased. I feel it's time I came clean. I hate the Wii. There, I said it. It doesn't feel like a gaming console. Every game I play on it feels nothing like a true video game and I can barely get through it. This is painful for me because I LOVED Skyward Sword, but I hated the controls. Sure, they worked, but it felt forced and utterly useless. I hate the rotating platforms in New Super Mario Bros and all those other added Wii "gimmicks" because that's all they are. It's like, "Hey! This is a Mario game...ON THE WII! Let's add motion!" And that's stupid. I feel like a game like Donkey Kong Country Returns would be better on the Gamecube. Having it on the Wii...is...ugh. So, my hatred for New Super Mario Bros is based on bias. The face that all the new games look the same is shit-icing on the cake. ARE YOU HAPPY, PEOPLE?! You've discovered my dark secret. I'm not a true-blue Nintendo fan. I WANT to like the Wii. I really do, but I also have a PS3. And a PSP. Hell, even the 3DS surpasses it in my opinion. |
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Post by kirbychu on Aug 30, 2012 18:19:23 GMT -5
Well, that was unexpected! I've pretty much accepted motion control as a part of gaming as a whole now. I find that these days Nintendo actually use it less intrusively than Microsoft and Sony have been. It fit into DKCR so seamlessly that I forgot they even used it (I'm assuming they did? What for? I honestly can't remember it being there). Everybody's got different tastes when it comes to consoles, though. Our most-used one this generation has been the Xbox (which is funny, because I expected that to be my least favourite). The Wii gets used a lot less, but I'd say it probably has the highest concentration of games I really love on it. If our PS3 gets turned on at all it's usually just to watch Blu-rays. We still use the PS2 a fair amount, though, since its games don't run on the PS3. Our 3DSes are usually just on sleep mode whenever we're not actually using them, and our shared PSP hasn't been used since the month we got it. We were planning to get a Vita until they stopped it being possible to share them. ...Yeah, I've been burned a lot by Sony over the last few years. I probably feel about them the way you do about the Wii.  |
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Post by Boo Destroyer on Aug 30, 2012 18:21:51 GMT -5
It fit into DKCR so seamlessly that I forgot they even used it (I'm assuming they did? What for? I honestly can't remember it being there). Swinging both the Wii Remote and Nunchuk up and down to do the hand slam technique was fine, but shaking the Wii Remote to roll was incredibly grating, when it could have been placed on an otherwise sensible button. |
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Post by kirbychu on Aug 30, 2012 18:24:39 GMT -5
Swinging both the Wii Remote and Nunchuk up and down to do the hand slam technique was fine, but shaking the Wii Remote to roll was incredibly grating. Oh yeah, now I remember it! I guess it didn't bother me. Things like that have made their way into my subconscious now, so I constantly find myself shaking my 3DS in Mario 3D Land trying to perform Galaxy's spin move. |
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Post by Boo Destroyer on Aug 30, 2012 18:29:00 GMT -5
I even do that when I play NSMB DS to try and get some extra air time, like in NSMBW. A lot of other people do too, I'm sure. |
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Post by Koopaul on Aug 31, 2012 0:27:41 GMT -5
What Fryguy and I have been doing is pointing out that those things people are complaining weren't there (new enemies, new gameplay elements, new moves, unique stages) are actually there, and then the people complaining are stomping their feet and saying "WELL THEY WEREN'T THERE, OKAY?" and repeating their previous argument. That's why I made the ice cream comparison. They DID add new stuff each time. But it was sprinkled in. That's why I said NSMB series were all vanilla but with different sprinkles. That's at least how it seems to me. I was still happy with NSMBWii because unlike TVEye I loved the multiplayer in the game. If it didn't have that, I probably would have started complaining much earlier about these games. See the Coins in NSMB2 aren't enough to tack on a very similar game and make it worth my while. See I bought NSMB for the DS because it was a Return to the old games. I think that's neat if they make one game that brings back all the old stuff. When NSMBWii came out I wanted to buy it because of the multiplayer. These next two titles offer me nothing. Nothing that the first two could give me. |
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Post by Boo Destroyer on Aug 31, 2012 0:40:08 GMT -5
Oh come on, man. Do you have to drag this whole thing out even further than it already should? At this point, you may just have to let it go for now and accept your loss.  |
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Post by Fryguy64 on Aug 31, 2012 2:18:49 GMT -5
If Teev just hates the Wii and If Koopaul is sick of playing 2D Mario games then that's his call. I personally look forward to playing each new batch of levels with those classic controls I love so much, as they will always be solid, always be entertaining and always build up to a decent challenge.
And they'll always do something new. I can't wait to see if making Coins more important changes how I play the game.
It's this bizarre notion that the New SMB games are somehow lazy cash-ins to con money out of people who liked the old games that I find offensive. This does happen with some game series. Yoshi's Island DS was a perfect example - trying to mimic the original but without any of the quality or care in design, gameplay or solid mechanics that went into the original.
This isn't the case with any of the New SMB games. They all feature new ideas that complement the already solid and well-tested mechanics, they all feature decent-to-superb level designs, and are all thoroughly entertaining.
Fry out.
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Post by Koopaul on Aug 31, 2012 7:11:58 GMT -5
Oh come on, man. Do you have to drag this whole thing out even further than it already should? At this point, you may just have to let it go for now and accept your loss. Loss? How can someone win or lose about your point of view or beliefs? |
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Post by kirbychu on Aug 31, 2012 7:39:29 GMT -5
Yeah, for the record, I don't have any problem with people not liking NSMB because they don't like the artwork or music or they just don't like/are tired of those type of games or any other opinion-related reason. The issue I had was with people saying the game was bad for things that actually weren't true.
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Post by Fryguy64 on Aug 31, 2012 9:27:57 GMT -5
Loss? How can someone win or lose about your point of view or beliefs? You can't... Unless your point of view or belief refers to a factual entity that is demonstrably true or false. If your premises are self-contradictory, or your conclusion follows neither your premises or the factual evidence, then your point of view or belief can be shown to be demonstrably wrong. You can dislike the games, but you can't set up arguments for why you dislike them unless you're prepared to have those arguments question in the fact of contradictory evidence. We're not trying to convince you to like them, but to tell you that the reasons you're giving for NOT liking them are not based on the visible facts, and that some of the reasons given are entirely self-defeating. Such as Teev saying there's nothing new one minute, then referring to anything new as "gimmicks" the next. What is Raccoon Mario in SMB3 if not a gimmick? By all means continue to dislike the games or elements of them. I can't change how you feel about them. But that's not what BooDestroyer meant. The arguments against presented so far are mostly self-contradictory and demonstrably false. Therefore, those arguments have been lost. Better find some new ones. |
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Post by TV Eye on Aug 31, 2012 13:00:19 GMT -5
Such as Teev saying there's nothing new one minute, then referring to anything new as "gimmicks" the next. What is Raccoon Mario in SMB3 if not a gimmick? The raccoon suit was a major gameplay change. It was new and it was fun to fly through the level, discovering secret areas in the clouds. Crash Bandicoot had pitch dark levels where you could only see if you had a firefly following you. Sonic 3 had falling icicles that you could use as platforms. Donkey Kong '94 had falling debris. Donkey Kong Country 2 had rising lava. Everything "new" in this game is something we've seen done (sometimes better) in older games. New Super Mario Bros. Wii is nothing more than a hodge-podge of platforming games from the 90's. |
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Post by kirbychu on Aug 31, 2012 13:16:18 GMT -5
In that case why play video games at all when the last one to do something new was Mario 64?
I can't comment on Crash, I didn't play it much because it was just a hodge-podge of old Taz-Mania cartoons, but none of the others you mentioned were the originators of anything you talked about... I guess the DKC games were terrible, too! After all, they're games where you play as a vine-swinging gorilla (Donkey Kong Jr.) and his kid sidekick (Sonic 2) throwing barrels at enemies (Double Dragon).
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Post by Arcadenik on Aug 31, 2012 13:24:25 GMT -5
I think it would be pretty awesome to have Wing Cap and Metal Cap in a 2D Mario game. That's new, right? Never been done in a 2D Mario game, right?  I still say they need to make a new 2D Mario game styled after Metroidvania. Imagine a vast world interconnected via vines, pipes, paintings, etc. Sure, the themes would probably be the same as NSMB games but still... Metroidvania!! |
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