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Post by Smashchu on Oct 26, 2008 22:56:06 GMT -5
I smell core in this thread.
I will say this: the game is pretty freaking fun. Again, it's not meant to be played like Rock Band so you will get board easily if you just try to hit a bunch of note. It's really about mixing it up and making a whole bunch of songs.
That being said, if you have no interest in making music, then don't bother with it.
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Post by Smashchu on Oct 26, 2008 22:52:45 GMT -5
A new bit of hope for a release in Europe: Official Nintendo Magazine told about a possible release in Summer 2009: gonintendo.com/?p=60741Hope.........
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Post by Smashchu on Oct 26, 2008 22:52:17 GMT -5
I figured if the AC boy was in it, the female version would be an alternate costume. My thoughts exactly.
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Post by Smashchu on Oct 20, 2008 20:47:12 GMT -5
Just a tip, try using color=003366. Works wonders as a spoiler tag. Just wondering, what if someone chooses the other color for this site? They'll see everything! Then they'll see it, much like they see your Blue. You can make it smaller too if that will help.
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Post by Smashchu on Oct 20, 2008 20:45:18 GMT -5
Here's the thing: you can predict how a game may play or how it is overall, but you can never pass judgment before you actually play it. The same goes for movies and music. You can predict your feelings, but you can never let your foresight drive your present opinion. You, of all people, need to learn to open your mind. Uh... no hobo. Thanks for the life lesson though. While we're handing out the life lessons, copy-pasta'ing your last post into your new one, assuming none of us are capable of reading, is not a good way to make a point. Instead, I'd consider that perhaps we read your points and are still unconvinced, so you need to further the point, not just repeat it. And a bit of proof reading never hurt anyone. I don't know about that. It didn't seem you read the last post. There are the articles too, but I'll assume your a busy man. Actually, what you said is what I did to some degree at least. But since I'm feeling a spark to write I'll assume you were right and try again. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The problem with Wii Music, or the problem it is having, is that it is looked at with unconditioned minds, or at least, one-track-minds (for lack of a better phrase). We are only looking at what we know, and not seeing what a game could be. By playing the same the same way too often, we condition ourselves to only see games ina certain light. So, perhaps the problem isn't Wii Music, but us. As I mentioned before Wii Music is clumped in with many other games, but doesn't actually fit with them. As Justin Epperson says in his preview We clump the game in with other games. Wii Music is obviously not what we are use to. It is different. Once again, look at Matt's video. Notice how he focused on only the main notes. He rarely veered off, and he always kept the display up. Remember this....... As explained, Wii Music is a music game as opposed to a rhythm game. So what's the difference. Well, as Malstrom describes Guitar Hero in Why Wii Music is GeniusThe divining line is creation verses imitation. For instance, look at a Guitar Hero guitar. You can put it near a real guitar and you can easily see the difference. The main similarity is the shape (which reinforces that it is meant for acting, not creating). What sets them apart if one has many attributes while one has very few. Where the real one has strings and knobs for tuning (forgive my lack of technical knowledge) the other is five buttons and a switch at the lower end. One can make real music while the other can only hit notes in a game. But that's OK,; the plastic one's purpose is to make someone feel like they are playing a guitar, and to help the player get immersed in the game. It is a controller and nothing more. So it becomes a problem with differencing the two. Basically, Rythm games are not music game since the purpose is to mimic, imitate and/or match the song playing. Wii Music is not becuase it gives you freedom in how the song should be played. You can create and alter the song as you please. In fact, compare this video to Matt's. Can you see the difference. The Game Video one only had the hud up for a short while. Matt had it though his entire video. The second one also had a lot more variation on the main song, and stayed that way after the earlier segments. Matt, on the other hand, stuck to the notes after a few seconds in. One may say he was playing this much like Guitar Hero, focusing on matching the notes, rather then make his own. Malstrom reinforces this by saying..... We mix the two up a lot. We see games like Guitar Hero, and even other Nintendo games like Donkey Konga as music games, rather then rhythm games. In truth, this is also becuase we've never had a game like Wii Music, so we never had the definition checked. Which brings me to the point. Conditioning is what has been creating the Wii Music problem. What has been happening is we are seeing Wii Music in parameters we know and nothing beyond that. Example, the complaint is it is too easy. Yes, it is rather easy to hit the notes, but let us look at the second video again. You remember how the player refused to focus on just the notes as opposed to Matt? He realized his goal was not to match the rhythm of the song, but to make it as his own. So, when he played, he didn't focus on how the song was meant, but how the song felt to him. In this respect, the same song won't be played the same across many different players. It will always sound a little different. This is why Wii Music is about creation, and the rhythm games about imitation. Regrettably, this is a major cause of the trouble. Since we are conditioned to these "music games," we don't see the same song as being different. The notes always scroll the same way every time you play. Therefore, this is where the confusion of the gaming being too easy came from. We looked only at hitting the notes(Matt) rather then forgetting them and making a song(Game Videos video). Of course, we return to the the winning/losing part. Why is this argued? As Malstrom mentioned, games such as JRPGs are focused on building the characters level. This is a game devoid of true skill. Platformers with collectibles focus less on the arcade like skill of platforms and more on the collecting aspect. Even Mario Paint, which many hardcore love, is like Wii Music in that there is no objective beyond creation and personal enjoyment; there is no skill in this game. So why are the hardcore so pressed for the lack of losing and high scores (despite these are irrelevant in most games)? It's all about conditioning and definition. You see, we have a set idea what a music (rhythm) game is like. You hit notes to a popular song and try for harder difficulties and high scores. You'd be hard pressed to find a music game that breaks this mold. And so the appauled feeling sets in. Comparing Wii Music to Guitar Hero is, as cliche as it is, comparing apples to oranges. "What are you talking about? They are similar enough! What's the matter!?" The matter is they are only similar in the fact they are music oriented, but even on that front, they very quite a bit. Miyamoto, in his demonstration at the 2008 Nintendo Press Conference, mentioned that Wii Music has 50 songs, none of which are on the top 40. The focus is on simple songs. Even though both use songs, the idea in choosing songs is different. Rhythm games focus on having popular songs that players what to imitate while Wii Music has simple songs that are easy to play by a wide range of players. Even after that, the gap only widens. As mentioned before, the peripherals for these games are meant to imitate. But Wii Music tries to replicate a real instrument rather then giving you a mock one for the purpose of imitate playing music. The controller in Wii Music is meant to act as if you are playing an instrument. In the press conference video, you can see Miyamoto play a piano much like you would in real life. You move your fingers across it, where this on ios simply moving your hands, but the result will still feel the same to an average player. A guitar in Wii Music is the same where the movement of your hand, changing how fast and how far you pluck the strings effects the sound. The Guitar Hero guitar has you simply pressing buttons and flicking a switch. This is like a real guitar, but making sounds isn't about button presses(becuase it is a controller). In other words, Wii Music has you imitating instruments to make music while rhythm games have you imitating playing a real song. The rhythm games are all about imitation, something Wii Music isn't. And of course, there is no high score or difficulty setting. Stephen Totilo mentiones this in his editorial I Think I Finally Get It - How ‘Wii Music’ Works As A (Hard) Game. To parrot myself, here is where the confusion comes from. We think it's about making the grade, but it's not the case. When the core sees the lack of a score of life bar they call fowl. They do so not becuase the game is bad, but becuase the game is different and doesn't fit the idea of a music game. "But" they declare "How can it be hard. Why should I keep playing?" First, I'd say why does it matter. As long as it is fun, you should continue. This is Intrinsic Motivation. If you are going to do something anyway, why reward it. In fact, if you put a reward, someone may be less likely to do it. Of course, just becuase you can't "win" nor are there any indications of difficulty, it is still there. The absents of evidence isn't the evidence of absents. In fact, as Stephen Totilo mentioned, making and creating videos of your songs that are interesting and sound pleasing is no easy task, and might be why the game gives you easy songs to start with. One might say it requires a musical bone to be good at this game. In fact, he sums up the point rather well. And so it comes together. We have clumped it with game that are focused on winning and setting scores, but this is about creating music, which is part of the challenge. The hardcord squawk that there is no difficulty, but it's not a matter that there isn't , but that it wasn't what they normally see as difficulty. Wii Music is breaking the mold and it is only one in Nintendo's long line of games that redefine gaming. This is perhaps why Malstrom gives the antithesis of the fact that there are no games, but digital play. It's not that this is a new thing. Wii Sport did the same thing, yet the core never complained. Wii Sports never contradicted the norm of sports games. You are still playing sports, just now with a fancy controller. Wii Play showed new and fun possibilities of the controller. However, the core sat idly by becuase it was just a minigame collection. Wii Fit showed that games have a different purpose then just escape, even being useful. The core saw it as a weight loss game they wouldn't care about. There was no idea to shatter. But Wii Music is a "music" game, or so everyone though. It broke the mold of what a music game is. Now, these "music" games can only be accurately described as "rhythm" games. The other Wii games have tried to push gaming in a new direction, but Wii Music took a hit becuase it directly contradicted what a "music" game is. Thus, it became inferior in the core's eyes. Wii Music is just another step in redefining gaming. Why is Wii Music so bad. According to Malstrom, it's becuase the core do not possess the imagination to see gaming in its new forms that are blossoming across the fields of Iwata’s New World.And new types of games are born. Sources Sean Malstrom Why Wii Music is Genius IGN-"La Bamba Waggle Fest"1Up Wii Music Preview by Justin EppersonWii Music F-Zero (From Game Videos)Nintendo Press Conference 2008 Wii Music demonstrationStephen Totilo I Think I Finally Get It - How ‘Wii Music’ Works As A (Hard) Game.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hope I didn't stray too far off. You are right on the proof reading. Some of my long post don't becuase I try and do them quickly before going to sleep, school, friends ect. Not sure. Can't find it.
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Post by Smashchu on Oct 20, 2008 18:07:34 GMT -5
Brawl spoils alot of stuff with Lucas' trophy as well, such as: Lucas' mother dies, he fights his brother, etc. That's why some people refrained from playing Brawl. Just a tip, try using color=003366. Works wonders as a spoiler tag.
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Post by Smashchu on Oct 19, 2008 22:52:25 GMT -5
Can I also bring up the point that Earthbound Zero IS important? It explains alot of the stuff in EarthBound like Giygas' back story. They are all pretty important, but can be played alone. Right now, I'm at Chapter 5. The boss I'm fighting is tough too.
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Post by Smashchu on Oct 19, 2008 22:43:41 GMT -5
(Sorry to rekindle something but I think I should reply) And then I point out how it was related, and how it can easily be taken as such. The proof is right there. If you did not mean it, then why did you even put it. Why, then, does her inclusion and the franchise's downfall have anything to do with each other and why waste energy including it? I don't think you chose your words as carefully as you say (if only becuase of the fact that people did misinterpret it). HOWEVER, you have failed to say why Krystal is a bad character and why the game was bad. Actually, according to Metacritic and Game Rankings show ~80% overall and Vgchartz. shows this game selling quit well. So, is how is it that Starfox Adventures is "a blemish on their otherwise spotless record." (PROTIP:It's not) And Fry, this is a great situation of the pot calling the keddle black. You are being just as much of a "dickwad" as you claim Koopaul is. You have said too often that Krystal suck. Yes, wonderful. Yes, you have yet to say why she sucks. I guess she is a stock character becuase Fry says so. The discussion has gone smoothly with everyone giving valid opinions except for you. You gave a reason why Sakurai might have chosen Wolf, then said My question isn't "Why should she be in?" but "Where the hell are all these Krystal fans coming from?"When not a few post above you Dasher Misire said -Krystal would be respect to Rare and Dinosaur Planet. She is, after all, the living memory of that mutilated game. -Krystal would be another of the scarce female characters. -Krystal is one of the leads, and she has a bigger role than Wolf. Wolf had a role as leader of an enforcing rival group in 64, vanished for the next game, showed up again with a big role in Assault so there's his biggest role. Command he's in there on one of the MANY split paths, I hear, while Krystal's a key piece of the story and one of the driving points behind Fox's feelings, ja? -More people wanted her in. Hell, more people EXPECTED her in. -A more original moveset. Staff, the staff's magic, maybe some grenades and things involving her pterodactyl friend?So the burden of proof is on you, not anyone else. Everyone has given a reason or reason why the character should not, but your is "character sucks" which pretty much translates into "I don't like her" which isn't the point (and if it were the case, you could just say, "I don't like her and that's my opinion"). Not to mention, you brought it back when commenting on a totally irrelevant post. Fry, your opinion is very one sided, arrogant, and misinformed, something that is unbecoming of you both as an admin and as your normal objective self. I can agree with the "You don't know Sakurai thing" but otherwise, I think it's uncalled for. I think you failed to see the situation. Koopaul said one line that sent you into a furious rant. At the least it was a misinterpretation of what you said caused by a communication error and your attitude towards the character. And HOW do you act. You. The mod of this board. Are you a retard as well as rude and ugly?Like a dick. You are suppose to be a role model. People get disciplined for this kind of behavior yet you do it freely despite your position(note that this was just one part of the post. there is more I can pull). This is why it's "the pot calling the kettle black". You call him a dickwad and act the same yourself. It's one thing if you say he is being rude and you tell him to stop, but it's another when you act worse then him. Basically, a mod should not be resorting to name calling and badgering. Which brings me back to the point. Why shouldn't she be in Smash? This is what you asked the Krystal fans, how she could even be justified with the current state of the franchise, yet you have not be able to stand very well on your argument. You've said a lot but a lot of this is misinformed and the rest just isn't holding much water. While you have given some proof, it doesn't translate well into forming an argument. The tricky example only works becuase you took the base level thinking, and didn't not think in both comparison to other characters and on depth. People like Tricky doesn't work becuase he is over shadowed by other characters. Tricky can have a unique moveset, but Krystal can have a better one since she has been able to fight. And, once again, why is Krystal a bland characters, and how did Starfox Adventures suck? (Saw it later) And how do you know that? I can't find sales figures for Drill Dozer. Can you? Typically, if there is no sales data, it sold under 1million. You can still find Japanese data though.
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Post by Smashchu on Oct 19, 2008 21:49:07 GMT -5
Well, who else has tried their hand at Intense Boss Battles and beat it? And as who? I beat it as Fox. Even if the guy knows nothing of Nintendo, I have to give him props for beating it with everyone.
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Post by Smashchu on Oct 18, 2008 10:24:56 GMT -5
Theres not really much need to visit it very often. Most people will know about the information thats up there such as roster...etc. It's not a regularly updated site but its a good place to go if your new to Smash. Oh, hey Kohta. Where have you been? But yeah, the dojo is a great resource. Defiantly great for stuff you need to know.
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Post by Smashchu on Oct 18, 2008 10:20:53 GMT -5
...His goal was to make fun of my name...? That was my goal. I had to register two years before you and I still haven't achieved it in two years, but the day will come! I would post one, but I can not think of one of such epic proportions that it will split the sky and derail the derailed conversation. Your day will come.
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Post by Smashchu on Oct 18, 2008 9:54:17 GMT -5
The big differences are better sound quality, control, and graphics. If it were a complete remake of Mario Paint, that would be a different story. But it's not. It's a cheapass way for Nintendo to make even more money for "innovation". This is not innovation. This is lame. Smashchu, I don't really think you know what you're talking about. You say none of us play instruments? What does that have to do with anything! It's a game. That's all. A piece of hobo game not even worth the 2 minute gameplay it consists of. First, it's ironic you mention Mario Paint. What you complain about Wii Music are present in Mario Pain. To quote Malstrom The saddest definition for painting would be to ‘paint within the lines’. If there was a ‘painting video-game’ made, this would likely be its realization. But Mario Paint was not this, and even the Hardcore enjoyed Mario Paintbefore they lost their child like innocence to become embittered. Mario Paint is just about painint. If it was called Wii Paint and shown at E3 09 (but was the exact same as Mario Paint) the "hardcore" would still complain. Secondly, Music is the whole point, so you playing an instrument makes all the difference. In fact, I said it in my last post Musical instruments are not easy, and in out daily lives it is very hard to master one, and even then for us to be able to preform. The point of Wii Music is to play instruments. Nothing more, nothing less. Instruments are hard, so it may not be fun to have some kind of right or wrong. Miyamote said he does not play the guitar but practices trhe guitar. If you've ever tried playing a musical instrument, you'll know it's not easy. I've tried to simply play the piano but to no avail. I can't just play an instrument. It takes YEARS of practice to do so. So, wouldn't it be fun to have a game that makes it easy to make music.(I did repeat thing a lot. Didn't necessarily proof read it very well). You see, the purpose of Wii Music is to simply enjoy an instrument. Rather then focus on being right or wrong, we can enjoy creating something. This is really the purpose of a game. Of course, if there is no drive to create music, then this product is not for you. I agree with that having fun thing, and I'm not only in the core. The thing is, if there is no challenge, then it's not fun for me. That's why winning and losing is present, to present a challenge to have fun with. If I wanted fun without a challenge, then I'll just boot up the game and run around. Not so much fun shaking a wii mote in random directions like that TMNT game. And even worse, what if you don't need to use the wiimote at all? One problem is the "hardcore" focus only on challenge and "winning and losing". I might actually write more on this actually. But, the point was never to win or lose. Tell me, would you play a game that wasn't fun, but had winning or losing? Probably not. But, you won't have fun without a challenge? So, what's wrong with this game. You see, it's what all core gamers have done wrong. It's not about the end result, but the time spent getting there. So, challenge is not a factor. You only see challenge because you enjoy the middle of the game. So, even if you never got better, the middle is still fun. If this is true, do we need challenge? Can we instead just enjoy the meat of the game and not worry if there is some end result. The reaction to Wii Music has been exaggerated even by the hardcore standards. In the hardcore view, the game is nothing more than a ‘waggle fest’ where no one can lose. The player is never off on the rhythm. There can be no ‘failure’. Therefore, there can be no high score. Never-mind the fact that high scores became passe in the mid 1980s, and never-mind the fact that games have grown beyond the mere ‘winning and losing’ rule sets established to devour quarters. One of the most favored type of hardcore games is the JRPG which, almost entirely, requires time invested rather than skill. If levels keep going up, then eventually, one will win for the enemies keep getting weaker and weaker the longer one plays. The hardcore clamor for collectible ‘things’ have infiltrated platformers while not noticing the collectibles veer away from the arcade skill that forged the platformers in the first place. Strategy games, another of the hardcores’ favorite, are also overlooked as players love to simple ‘play them’ with micromanaging and tech tree advancing with little emphasis on ‘winning’ through the traditional means.You call it 'software'. Not a game. Wii Music is, at best, an application, just like Cooking Guide and similar games. BUT Nintendo seems to want people to think its a game. And so it will be compared to games. And compared to games, it sucks ass. Well, first, you may want to rethink your definitions. All video games are software, but not all software are video games. First, I must point out that you are very closed minded. As such, you have offered very little to try and defend your views instead you insisting that they are right. You hold on to them for your dear life. I can tell that you have only seen this game once, at E308. You have probably never played the game either, yet, you are so adamant that the game sucks. How can this be? It's only interesting that you compare Wii Music to other games. Tell me, can we compare Final Fantasy to Halo. Can we compare Captain Rainbow to Command and Conquer? Can we compare Team Fortress 2 to Harvest Moon? I think you would agree that we can not compare game that are very different. Why, then, do you clump Wii Music in with every other game. You are more concerned that it sucks then actually seeing for yourself. Please, never become a critic becuase you are the worst kind. You can never truly pass judgment until you've tried it; however, you are the most concerned that the game sucks and Nintendo did the wrong thing. At the same time, musician and not a like have found this game to be very fun. Nintendo showed it to a kindergarten and they begged them to stay. Nintendo gave it to a music conductor and he didn't stop playing. Nintendo gave it to famous artist and they thought it would be a great family game. Nintendo gave it too the critics and, save for a few, many are having lots of fun. Many of whom probably thought the game would have been terrible. Here's the thing: you can predict how a game may play or how it is overall, but you can never pass judgment before you actually play it. The same goes for movies and music. You can predict your feelings, but you can never let your foresight drive your present opinion. You, of all people, need to learn to open your mind.
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Post by Smashchu on Oct 18, 2008 9:42:52 GMT -5
Also should I have played Mother 1/EarthBound Zero and Mother 2/EarthBound before playing this game? I think you'll be fine. I would recommend Earthbound, but beyond that, you can probably understand most of what is going on.
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Post by Smashchu on Oct 18, 2008 9:39:11 GMT -5
The game comes to South Korea on November 13: nintendo.co.kr/DS/soft/2.phpAccording to Gamekult.com, the game won't be released in Europe until 2009, as I thought. There goes my "US is the new Europe" theory.
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Post by Smashchu on Oct 17, 2008 13:29:49 GMT -5
Reading the comments, no one has escaped their little box. They still think only in the view of the "core". Wii Music is a defining game of this generation, but few understand it. It's not a mystery, but becuase they don't see beyond their conditioned state, they see the game as "under them". This article may make sence of it all. I read the article. And Wii Music is not a game where you make music, the music is already made, now you just waggle to it. Good sir, you suffer from core-idice. You see games in a strict boundary. Wii Music is about making music, and enjoying it. The song are suppose to be altered. You see, Matt's problem was he was just tried to hit the notes. The notes are few with many gaps. He was suppose to make his own notes. It's not just altering songs, but there is also a jam session mode where you can simply play the instruments. Heck, the main mode of the game is called "jam". See, Captain Underware, you define The Industry the best. You only see a game as right and wrong. If there is no way to be wrong, then it sucks, and you define it as a lesser game. Games are not about winning and losing, but about having fun.CU, can you play a musical instrument. I would bet the answer may range from no to yeah, "but not well". I can tell you I can't play a single one. I can tell you I defiantly can't. Musical instruments are not easy, and in out daily lives it is very hard to master one, and even then for us to be able to preform. The point of Wii Music is to play instruments. Nothing more, nothing less. Instruments are hard, so it may not be fun to have some kind of right or wrong. Miyamote said he does not play the guitar but practices trhe guitar. If you've ever tried playing a musical instrument, you'll know it's not easy. I've tried to simply play the piano but to no avail. I can't just play an instrument. It takes YEARS of practice to do so. So, wouldn't it be fun to have a game that makes it easy to make music.
Matt did not play the game correctly. The goal is not to match up the music to the notes. Anyone who thought that, is dumb (as Matt and all other journalist are). In that particular game, you are suppose to make your own song. Its to alter the song as you see fit. The song only gives basic beats as this is all you need to have the song work. Did anyone not see all the empty space? The game sets it up for you to do so. The games wants you to create music. It wants you to appreciate the simple joy of making a song, or even being able to play it yourself. That is Wii Music It is clear to me that no one here understands this game. Everyone is appalled by the fact it is "too easy" to hit the notes. This only proves you are just as much of a sheep as Matt is. Heck, you are all probably following the head sheep, who is following another to the slaughter. The purpose of games was never to do something right. Games are meant for fun. Gameplay literally means the play of the game. Right or wrong means nothing. The software allows ANYONE to play music, those who it may not be attracted to. You may say "learn a real instrument", but it's hard to do that. People send their whole lives trying to play just one instrument. So why hasn't anyone made a game about being a master of any instrument. The truth is everyone has misidentified what is a music game. Guitar Hero is a rhythm game becuase you are only following the rhythm of the song. Wii Music is a music game becuase you have freedom to do what you wish with music. There is a mode about simply playing the instruments. SO, Matt wanted to play Guitar Hero, but he was playing Wii Music. He should have spent less time trying to play the song right and spent more time making the song sound interesting or new. Make it right too him. The hardcore sit on the sideline and gaff at one of the most revolutionary games of this generation, one that defines the Blue Ocean Strategy. Soon, games may just be like this. Winning and losing matter only to the core. Everyone else is more concerned whether these games are fun. The core say the non gamers will enjoy Guitar Hero more becuase the core enjoys Guitar Hero more. The core does not understand that many players do not have the finger dexterity to play this. But these non-gamers enjoy having fun. If making music, with air drums you aren't really playing, is fun, then it is fun. Experience videos have shown that the mass loves and enjoys this game. They care not about right and wrong.
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