Twilight Princess Spoiler Thread

[Smashchu]

kirbychu said:

I think Aonuma said that there were two timelines... and that TWW took place after the adult timeline and TP took place after the child timeline. Of course, typically, I can't find the interview now. I'll have another look later.

In Gametrailers.com retrospective of Zelda they also mentioned it. Its in the TP section.

[mrmolecule]

admin said:

Here's a spanner in the works. It's not Twilight Princess, but it is Zelda storyline related, and I'd like to see it compared to the Japanese translation for consistency.

The Zelda II manual says the good king who ruled Hyrule with the Triforce was the one who placed the spell on Hyrule, making the Triforce mark appear on the hands of those destined to carry it. But that means the origin of the "Legend of Zelda" (the legend, not the series) actually preceded Ocarina of Time. It also means the Triforce was in Hyrule before it was sealed in the Golden Land, or at least was USED in Hyrule.

I'm sure this kicks up other problems, though bugger me if I can think of them right now.

Yeah, so the Good King of Hyrule might be the boat. And what's with the town names? Perhaps the Town of Saria (and others) were named after the long-passed OOT heroes?

[Fryguy64]

I think that's a given

[Dances in Undergarments]

I know nothing about the Zelda timeline as I've only played Wind Waker, Minish Cap and now Twilight Princess in full (still need 3 more hearts and a bunch more bugs and 4 more Poe's souls (well to break the Second Spell... don't know if theres another, but I wouldn't think so).

So I'm redirecting the discussion for a second - wasn't it mentioned at some point in some interview (it would have been early, as I was avoiding anything and everything TP related by about the start of last year) that there was going to be more focus on Link as a person? Specifically, I remember asking someone asking someone (yeah, thats helpful) about Link falling in love or something and whoever it was replying that there would be more of a focus on him as a person, particularly a teenage one. If this interview did in fact exist, and this was the intention - where was it? I thought the guy could have used a bit more personality, personally - or at least got some Leon-from-RE4-esque "overtime" with Ilia... okay maybe not.

Also, just as a side note, I liked how this game didn't rely on lots of this-guy-is-secretly-someone-important stuff. Specifically stuff like Zant not actually being Ganon, which is the 'twist' that I was sure was coming. Good stuff.

[kirbychu]

It does focus more on Link as a person in that we get to see more of his everyday life, his friends in the village, etc. And all that business with saving the kids, getting Ilia's memory back and everything.

Miyamoto has said a lot of times that he really doesn't want Link to talk. Which does make it harder to give him personality. Still, I think they did a great job with what they had.

According to a lot of people over at Zelda Legends, it's "obvious" that the ghostly hero who teaches you sword techniques is the ghost of OoT Link. Did anybody else think that? I certainly didn't. The only similarity they seem to have is that they're both heroes.

[Fryguy64]

Huh... no, I didn't get that. He was definitely Pious Augustus from Eternal Darkness But please summarise their reasons for believing that bizarre theory (especially as OoT Link didn't actually learn any of the moves that Pious teaches you in TP).

I think Link's personality, at least during cut scenes, was handled with a very soft touch. I came away from it feeling he was a better fleshed-out character than previous Links. He wanted to save his village, he wanted to save the children, he wanted to help Ilia. The wolf, perhaps, betrayed his personality. He was definitely a bunny, like Link from LttP. But his expressions and exclamations were very peaceful and calm.

TWW Link certainly had more flair, but it was very over-the-top, and didn't let you know anything more than "here's a brave little boy".

[kirbychu]

From what I read of the thread, it was mainly because the ghost is referred to as a hero who once fought for Hyrule, is left-handed, and says that only people of "our bloodline" can learn those special techniques. Oh, and that he looks like a Stalfos, and the last place we saw OoT Link was in the Lost Woods. And turns into a wolf, like TP Link.

But, what about the Knights of Hyrule? I'd assumed the ghost was one of them. After all, I'm pretty sure one of the Links (ALttP, maybe?) was said to be of their bloodline. And Link managed to navigate the Lost Woods pretty well without becoming a Stalfos before. And as far as I'm concerned, the last place we saw OoT Link was in Termina.

Honestly, it seems to me that some people just really want OoT Link to make some appearance in the game other than just in legends. If the creators really wanted us to think it was OoT Link, surely they would've put him in a green tunic?

The thread about it there is here: forums.legendsalliance.com/index.php?showtopic=11575&st=0

I found it a little odd that one of the people who made this assumption and redicules anyone who doesn't believe it is a Zelda Legends staff member. You'd think they'd know better than making assumptions based on little facts, given the theme of the site.

[Fryguy64]

God, that post is annoying to read.

Basically, all of their facts lead to a number of possible outcomes, not a single, definite outcome. Now, some of those outcomes are more likely than others (such as Pious being OoT Link), but that's not a conclusive argument.

Interview quotes or solid in-game evidence is required. They have neither. I wish they'd stop being dicks about it to those who aren't convinced. They're just making themselves look arrogant.

[kirbychu]

To be honest, the more arrogant they are about it, the less I want to believe it.

Anyway, on another topic... after watching the ending a few more times, I'm still a little confused about Zant's appearance at the end. How did you guys interpret that? Ganondorf seemed to imply that Zant's lust for power was somehow giving him strength at some point... perhaps it was supposed to be Zant's will leaving him or something? Zant snapped his own neck, killing Ganon in the process? I'm really not sure.

[Smashchu]

After reading those post, Im more convinced he's a Knight rather then the OoT Link.. The one for OoT Linkl was making blaten assumtions and calling them facts. The other, took them as assumtions, so much so that he was "assuming" it was a Knight.

Of course, jhe presented a better argument. There was quite a few ambigious elements in the other guy's though. He came to all these weird conclusions with no real backing.

[Fryguy64]

Zant said he could not die while Ganondorf's power coursed through him. In a way, you could say Zant was technically already dead, and as soon as Ganondorf himself was killed, Zant died on the spot.

So you killed the puppet master, and so the puppet falls down lifeless as well

I assumed Pious was one of the legendary knights of Hyrule. I have one more Howling Stone to find tonight, so I shall investigate a bit more later.

[kirbychu]

Ah, yes! That makes perfect sense now. I had actually assumed Midna destroyed Zant. I'd forgotten he said Ganondorf would revive him.

I guess, in that case, there's no doubt that Ganondorf died. And I'd say that was the best death scene I've scene in a video game, too. As the wind blew Ganondorf's cape at the end, it really reminded me of his speech about the wind just before the final boss in TWW.

[Fryguy64]

Plus, the Triforce fades from his hand at the end. A good sign that a Triforce holder is dead. The only exception to this rule so far seems to be at the end of TWW - where Ganondorf manages to extract the Triforces from Link and Zelda without killing them.

But that was done to recombine them, rather than disperse them. Which is what Ganondorf wanted (until Daphnes turned up).

I took on the knight's final lesson last night. He doesn't say he took the path of the Hero.... he says he took the path of the hero. That capital letter makes all the difference - it means he believed himself to be a hero, but not THE Hero of Time.

Nothing else he says, does or whatever in that final appearance suggests he is OoT Link. Although it does suggest he was once a great knight. It would be cool if he was some character from OoT, but I'm guessing he's not.

[Old Man Rupee]

Knight guy = Tingle!!

Seriously though, you may be wondering why I haven't posted for a while, and its because I spent all my free time recently trying to finish TP, which I finally did the night before last ;D

A few things: concerning Link and emotions, didn't you see some of the looks going on between him and Midna towards the end? Was I the only one to read to much into their relationship? (Gotta love the farewell scene at the mirror chamber: "...am I too beautiful for words?")

A few things left to do: poes, bugs, second star game. Shame I couldn't save after the finale, now I'll have to warp from outside Ganondorf's chamber to go and tie up all the loose ends.

Oh, has anyone else discovered the Cave of Ordeals? I've got down to the third fairy so far.

[Wildcat]

I plowed through the Cave once already. It's pretty tough. If you do it again it gets even harder, but the Postman is hiding at the very end. Once I get some more Heart Pieces, I think I'll brave the gauntlet yet again to see what happens.

I knew that the knight looked like somebody, and it was Pious. I don't think that's intentional, but it's kind of neat nevertheless. Thanks for pointing that out, fryguy.
Also, that explaination of Zant's death makes sense, too.

My fiance got through the game already (with me taking on the more difficult parts), so I still have a little more of the City in the Sky to do in my own file. I love it so far.