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Post by TV Eye on May 20, 2008 19:19:06 GMT -5
Yes, another fantastic Nintendo game that was in no way wasted its additional characters by having them more involved in cut scenes than in any actual gameplay. Use Peach to float across occasional gaps. Switch to Bowser in boss battles that take place in closed quarters... I think I actually dislike that game more than Yoshi's Island DS. I don't get you. You seem to dislike these games more than you should. Trivial reasons, like cut-scenes which I personally enjoyed immensley. (I wish more Mario games had stories like this) And Yoshi's Island DS, well I barely saw any flaws there. Well, I believe everyone here represents a different type of gamer. Fry's the no-nonsense, give it to me quick (yes, yes. Go ahead and todd me) and make it as good as the classics type of guy. |
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Post by Manspeed on May 20, 2008 19:37:41 GMT -5
Koopaul, you wouldn't know the first thing about how to design a game if it came up and bit you in the face. Yoshi's Island DS's story wasn't anything special either, so I don't know what you're thinking.
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Post by Flip on May 20, 2008 21:07:30 GMT -5
Yoshi's Island DS I was just glad to have because it was a legit goddamned sequel. Beyond that, the game kinda sucked. I liked the new babies, I enjoyed some aspects of the plot, and the bosses weren't terrible despite being really easy. It's just that the game not only becomes insanely hard to the point of being NOT PLAYABLE in the final two worlds, but the extra/secret levels are equally insane and the bonus content is basically lacking. The fact that they reused sprites in many cases bothered me, Bowser's animation was TERRIBLE, the final boss fight was hobo, and the lack of a 6th world still boggles my mind.
I still return to it here and there, sure. I liked it. But, kind of like a lot of the more recent Mario games, I put it aside once I beat it. I think the only decent DS showings for Mario have been his spinoff games, though I do still love New Super Mario Bros. and never gave Princess Peach a whirl (but I'd kill for a copy). And that does NOT include Mario & Luigi 2, because that can never hold a candle to the original. I bought a DS for that game, and was immensely disappointed. Great premise, great idea, terrible execution, very easy and very short. Mario Kart DS still pisses me off for altering the series the way it did, but it's better than most other offerings. And actually, NSMB isn't bad at all. It just needs to make you play through all 8 worlds and toss in a greater variety of powerups and less 1-ups.
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Post by Fryguy64 on May 21, 2008 3:36:33 GMT -5
There are two kind of games I respect:
- Games that take an established formula and try to evolve it further. Ideal example: The Legend of Zelda series.
- Games that are trying something brand new in games.
Ideal example: Wii Fit
Just under that:
- Games that take an established formula and repeat it without making any major developments.
Ideal example: New Super Mario Bros.
Then you have:
- Games that take an established formula, completely miss the point, and make something worse than the originals.
Ideal example: Yoshi's Island DS.
You may notice that Super Paper Mario doesn't really fit into any of these categories. That's because it fits into the "Wild Card" pile - games that have no fucking idea what they are, and probably should have undergone several more months of planning and playtesting before being released.
Koopaul, you intentionally misread what I actually said. My complaint wasn't about the horribly long cutscenes for a story that really didn't deserve them - but about the huge abundance of characters and Pixls for which there was absolutely NO need! And that's not even my main problem with the game. Any game that makes you run in a treadmill for 15 minutes, enter "Please" into a keyboard 6 times, makes you run across an empty landscape for minutes before you find what you want, and is so blatant in making you go on fetch quests that involve ridiculous amounts of backtracking... that is a BADLY MADE GAME! Screw that, it's a badly made piece of consumer entertainment!
If THQ or Acclaim had made it with slightly different characters, not one of you would play it, and if you did, you'd hate it for all the reasons I hate it. You might say "the story's OK" or "the idea has potential" but the execution is appalling.
Yoshi's Island DS was just a bit buggy and frustrating for the wrong reasons. If it took the challenging stages from the original game as its template, then it'd be fine, but the puzzles involved were never as clever as those in the original game, and getting 100% never felt as accomplished. Maybe it just lacked that Miyamoto touch, maybe the controls were fudged just a bit too much for my liking... I'm more forgiving of this than SPM though, because at least it took a stab at evolving the game with introducing the multiple babies. It just messed up the original formula in the process.
Rant Over!
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Post by Game Guru on May 22, 2008 3:02:57 GMT -5
Sorry, FryGuy, but I like Super Paper Mario. About the only thing that sucked was the whole Mimi's Vase incident. Guide Dang it right there!
Also knowing myself, I'd probably like Yoshi's Island DS and Mario & Luigi 2. But I am a patient man... I can usually wait for price drop.
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Post by Fryguy64 on May 22, 2008 4:06:55 GMT -5
How could anyone like running in a treadmill for 15 minutes?! Anyone who finds that entertaining has serious mental problems.  M&L:PiT was good though... dunno what the complaints about that are. Sure, it's not as good as M&L:SS, but then not many RPGs are that good... or funny  "Oh babies!!" |
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Post by Game Guru on May 22, 2008 14:54:15 GMT -5
You have to steal money from Mimi and then give it back to her, rather than actually working for her, but you can't find out how to do it in-game, so that makes one require an Official Nintendo Strategy Guide or a trip to GameFAQs, making it a Guide Dang It moment! I really just skipped that chapter by checking GameFAQs. This is why I don't usually pre-order games. I get both games and guides cheaper. Besides that moment, Super Paper Mario is a fun game. |
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Post by Fryguy64 on May 22, 2008 17:40:50 GMT -5
And all the other crap I said? Entering a word 6 times into a keypad? And why couldn't you use the Wii remote for that bit?!  And whatever happened to... you know... puzzles that use your Pixls and secondary characters? The annoying menu? The... I give up, I can't convince you of how bad it is any more than you'll convince me it's good. Remember... I did actually play it all the way through and hated most of that experience... |
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on May 22, 2008 19:00:30 GMT -5
You have to steal money from Mimi and then give it back to her, rather than actually working for her, but you can't find out how to do it in-game, so that makes one require an Official Nintendo Strategy Guide or a trip to GameFAQs, making it a Guide Dang It moment! I really just skipped that chapter by checking GameFAQs. This is why I don't usually pre-order games. I get both games and guides cheaper. Besides that moment, Super Paper Mario is a fun game. Any game puzzle that REQUIRES you to use a guide is a piss-poor excuse for game design. And Super Paper Mario is drowning in piss-poor excuses for game design. |
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Post by Game Guru on May 22, 2008 19:48:01 GMT -5
Well, you can beat it normally by running in place 10,100 of the things, finding Slim by going 3D everywhere, and get the info from the two who charge for it, but then you guys hate doing that. Either way, that was just one level. And once you get through it, you get to Chapter 3, which is the best world in the game. Either way, Super Paper Mario is a decent game, not the crap game you guys paint it to be.
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Post by Smashchu on May 22, 2008 20:59:50 GMT -5
Come on, neither of you could figure it out. Really, it's not hard.
But truthfully. thats more you then an actual flaw in the game.
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on May 23, 2008 9:11:21 GMT -5
Figure what out? Figure out to run on a treadmill? I figured it out, I just thought it was god awful. And it was.
Chapter 6 or 7 or whatever one where you had to walk, battle one dude, then walk to the next room and repeat 20 times was also god awful.
These have nothing to do with my lack of skill or whatever, and everything to do with Intelligent Systems completely phoning it in for a good portion of this game. The good stuff in there is rather good, but the bad stuff in it is terrible.
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Post by Spud on May 23, 2008 9:42:53 GMT -5
Come on, neither of you could figure it out. Really, it's not hard. But truthfully. thats more you then an actual flaw in the game. As someone who has studied level design I'll tell you this, the player should always have an Idea of what he's supposed to do. Failure to do so is a failure on the part of the design not the player. I did manage to figure out the level. It is an abomination of level design. Case closed. |
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Post by Fryguy64 on May 23, 2008 12:06:13 GMT -5
I was gonna go through an FAQ and list all the stuff that I consider bad level design, but then I really didn't want to invest any more time in that game than I already have...
Perfectly put DiU. And for me, the good stuff wasn't good enough to make up for the sheer amount of bad stuff.
THANK YOU! ;D
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Post by TV Eye on May 23, 2008 13:36:16 GMT -5
I'm so glad I have no idea what you guys are talking about.
...I never played super Paper Mario.
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And whatever happened to... you know... puzzles that use your Pixls and secondary characters? The annoying menu? The... I give up, I can't convince you of how bad it is any more than you'll convince me it's good. Remember... I did actually play it all the way through and hated most of that experience...
