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Post by Game Guru on May 23, 2008 16:31:59 GMT -5
Come on, neither of you could figure it out. Really, it's not hard. But truthfully. thats more you then an actual flaw in the game. As someone who has studied level design I'll tell you this, the player should always have an Idea of what he's supposed to do. Failure to do so is a failure on the part of the design not the player. I did manage to figure out the level. It is an abomination of level design. Case closed. Ahem. You break the vase and have to pay off 1,000,000 rubies. They will get bored of doing the obvious and running on the treadmill before they get the rubies they need, and will probably explore the level. You find a guy who knows something so you pay him and find the Pixl... By asking around, you can find the guy who has the code, and then you will know everything you need to do. Or you could do it the tedious way, like Fryguy apparently did. It's a puzzle to solve. This is an Action RPG, NOT a platformer. Super Paper Mario is by no means perfect, but it's a decent game. It's just that Fryguy, Underwear, and Spud hate the type of game it is. It's like me trying to play DDR or Guitar Hero. I am absolutely no good at rhythm games, so DDR and Guitar Hero would and have frustrated me to no end despite them being technically good games. Perhaps the Metal Gear Solid series, which also frustrated me as I don't like stealth games. I still respect them for being great awesome games, but they are just not my thing. |
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Post by Spud on May 23, 2008 17:01:59 GMT -5
As someone who has studied level design I'll tell you this, the player should always have an Idea of what he's supposed to do. Failure to do so is a failure on the part of the design not the player. I did manage to figure out the level. It is an abomination of level design. Case closed. Ahem. You break the vase and have to pay off 1,000,000 rubies. They will get bored of doing the obvious and running on the treadmill before they get the rubies they need, and will probably explore the level. You find a guy who knows something so you pay him and find the Pixl... By asking around, you can find the guy who has the code, and then you will know everything you need to do. Or you could do it the tedious way, like Fryguy apparently did. It's a puzzle to solve. This is an Action RPG, NOT a platformer. Super Paper Mario is by no means perfect, but it's a decent game. It's just that Fryguy, Underwear, and Spud hate the type of game it is. BULLhobo! when did I say I hated it? That level is an abomination it's full of crappy gimmick and you know it. I Never said that the game was bad or awful or a peace of crap or anything of the sort. |
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Post by Boo Destroyer on May 23, 2008 23:06:46 GMT -5
HEY GUYS WHATS GOING ON HERE *popcorn*
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Post by wanderingshadow on May 23, 2008 23:43:45 GMT -5
You know what would be cool? A hidden team of non-Mario (but still Nintendo) characters. I have a few ideas.
NINTENDO ALL-STARS!
*Dion (Marvelous: Another Treasure Island)
*Lucas (Mother 3)
*Miis (Five of them. Their uniforms should look like the ones in Baseball for the NES and they should be named for players from the Mariners.)
*Mike Jones(StarTropics)
*Ness(Mother 2)
The stars of team are heroes who love baseball in Nintendo games. Filler characters are taken from Wii Sports and Baseball.
ANIMAL TEAM
*Axel
*Boots
*Curly
*Hank
*Leopold
*Quetzal
*Ribbot
*Tank
*Tybalt
All the players on this team are characters with the "Athlete" personality from Animal Crossing. Any would work,really. These characters are just some of my favorite athletes.
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Post by Fryguy64 on May 24, 2008 6:17:44 GMT -5
Bah, you forgot Hector!!  |
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Post by Smashchu on May 24, 2008 16:41:43 GMT -5
Come on, neither of you could figure it out. Really, it's not hard. But truthfully. thats more you then an actual flaw in the game. As someone who has studied level design I'll tell you this, the player should always have an Idea of what he's supposed to do. Failure to do so is a failure on the part of the design not the player. I did manage to figure out the level. It is an abomination of level design. Case closed. That's wonderful that you study level design, but that doesn't mean your right or the case is closed. Credibility=/=correct. I think the level is designed well becuase it fits it's purpose. It's small, there are plenty of doors and it shows you that there is another answer. There is the lightning you can't get past but you know something is on the other side and the giant treasure chest that is out of reach. The only way it could help more is if it held your hand and forced you to talk to the certain people, but then it would be counter productive. The only problem were the doors that all looked a like so it became a problem of entering the wrong door when you need to talk to someone. So it begs the question, how is the level flawed. How could you not figure this out though. 1)You had to not explore the level and not talk to anyone. I beleive there was someone who specifically told you that "This chick has a whole bunch of Rupees somewhere" 2)Not use your intellect and experience to deduce there is a better solution. In numerous games, if it gives you an purpostorus(spelling) number then that means you need need to find another way. 1million rupees is quite large, so after hearing the number it should clue you into to "I better figure it out" and the only way not to would be not to talk to enough people. The sad part is that you did most of the leg work to figure it out if you did the wheel. You have to get to the wheel room and to figure out the final code. From there, pay the man who knows it and get it. He also mentions that the chick says it in her sleep, so you know it's important. And the saddest part is you need the pixil anyway to complete the level. All you needed to get the rupees was the code and the pixil. You got one and you had access to the other. But in the end took what should have been in and out was a run around the wheel. Of course, the level wasn't the funnest, but it sure wasn't the hardest. But perhaps we should get back on topic. We got a bit side tracked. |
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Post by Spud on May 24, 2008 20:17:09 GMT -5
As someone who has studied level design I'll tell you this, the player should always have an Idea of what he's supposed to do. Failure to do so is a failure on the part of the design not the player. I did manage to figure out the level. It is an abomination of level design. Case closed. That's wonderful that you study level design, but that doesn't mean your right or the case is closed. Credibility=/=correct. I think the level is designed well becuase it fits it's purpose. It's small, there are plenty of doors and it shows you that there is another answer. There is the lightning you can't get past but you know something is on the other side and the giant treasure chest that is out of reach. The only way it could help more is if it held your hand and forced you to talk to the certain people, but then it would be counter productive. The only problem were the doors that all looked a like so it became a problem of entering the wrong door when you need to talk to someone. So it begs the question, how is the level flawed. How could you not figure this out though. 1)You had to not explore the level and not talk to anyone. I beleive there was someone who specifically told you that "This chick has a whole bunch of Rupees somewhere" 2)Not use your intellect and experience to deduce there is a better solution. In numerous games, if it gives you an purpostorus(spelling) number then that means you need need to find another way. 1million rupees is quite large, so after hearing the number it should clue you into to "I better figure it out" and the only way not to would be not to talk to enough people. The sad part is that you did most of the leg work to figure it out if you did the wheel. You have to get to the wheel room and to figure out the final code. From there, pay the man who knows it and get it. He also mentions that the chick says it in her sleep, so you know it's important. And the saddest part is you need the pixil anyway to complete the level. All you needed to get the rupees was the code and the pixil. You got one and you had access to the other. But in the end took what should have been in and out was a run around the wheel. Of course, the level wasn't the funnest, but it sure wasn't the hardest. But perhaps we should get back on topic. We got a bit side tracked. Meh. This could go on forever, much like arguing the beauty of a painting. I fold. |
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Post by Smashchu on May 24, 2008 21:33:09 GMT -5
That's wonderful that you study level design, but that doesn't mean your right or the case is closed. Credibility=/=correct. I think the level is designed well becuase it fits it's purpose. It's small, there are plenty of doors and it shows you that there is another answer. There is the lightning you can't get past but you know something is on the other side and the giant treasure chest that is out of reach. The only way it could help more is if it held your hand and forced you to talk to the certain people, but then it would be counter productive. The only problem were the doors that all looked a like so it became a problem of entering the wrong door when you need to talk to someone. So it begs the question, how is the level flawed. How could you not figure this out though. 1)You had to not explore the level and not talk to anyone. I beleive there was someone who specifically told you that "This chick has a whole bunch of Rupees somewhere" 2)Not use your intellect and experience to deduce there is a better solution. In numerous games, if it gives you an purpostorus(spelling) number then that means you need need to find another way. 1million rupees is quite large, so after hearing the number it should clue you into to "I better figure it out" and the only way not to would be not to talk to enough people. The sad part is that you did most of the leg work to figure it out if you did the wheel. You have to get to the wheel room and to figure out the final code. From there, pay the man who knows it and get it. He also mentions that the chick says it in her sleep, so you know it's important. And the saddest part is you need the pixil anyway to complete the level. All you needed to get the rupees was the code and the pixil. You got one and you had access to the other. But in the end took what should have been in and out was a run around the wheel. Of course, the level wasn't the funnest, but it sure wasn't the hardest. But perhaps we should get back on topic. We got a bit side tracked. Meh. This could go on forever, much like arguing the beauty of a painting. I fold. (HOLY CRAP I WON ONE) Good point. Although, I would at least like to know your reason why it is a bad level. Sorry, I'm curious. But, on the topic of the game, I am excited for this game (excited as one could be for this game). Loved baseball on the Wii. But, I am really hoping they fix some of the games problems (crazy AI, terrible fielding). But, new info Source(P.S. I was kidding about the winning thing) |
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on May 25, 2008 2:23:35 GMT -5
I've had enough of going over this game, so this is the last thing I'm gonna say about it, but I didn't run on a treadmill for 1 million coins or whatever it was - i did everything I was supposed to do to get all the necessary stuff and I still had to do menial pointless, un-fun tasks for like 5 minutes. Even if you 'solve' the puzzle, you have to do the god awful shit. |
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Post by Smashchu on May 26, 2008 11:01:28 GMT -5
I've had enough of going over this game, so this is the last thing I'm gonna say about it, but I didn't run on a treadmill for 1 million coins or whatever it was - i did everything I was supposed to do to get all the necessary stuff and I still had to do menial pointless, un-fun tasks for like 5 minutes. Even if you 'solve' the puzzle, you have to do the god awful hobo. Never said the level was amazingly fun, just that it wasn't hard. Of course, it's like I said back when the game first came out that SPM was a platformer that thought it was an RPG. It was harold(spelling) as a platformer with some RPG elements. Problem was that a lot of the levels were more puzzle based. Once you get past World 3, it loses it's charm. Still good just based on the story and gameplay, just that it didn't stay true. |
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Post by Spud on May 26, 2008 11:22:45 GMT -5
Good point. Although, I would at least like to know your reason why it is a bad level. Sorry, I'm curious. It's just a bad Idea to use boredom to influence the player. and of course there is the platform that you can only reach as Peach which is totally unnecessary. I mean up until that point you have been doing on the fly problem solving and platforming beating up enemies and earning points if your timing is good, this is really a big slowdown from the earlier levels. The treadmill is the worst offender in yanking the player out of the game, holding down a button for several minutes disengages the player from the game and eventually boredom either makes them explore or makes them realize the real world again. When the player realizes the real world he is more likely to shut the game off. in short: Boredom + Game = Bad Idea. |
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Post by Smashchu on May 26, 2008 11:45:46 GMT -5
Good point. Although, I would at least like to know your reason why it is a bad level. Sorry, I'm curious. It's just a bad Idea to use boredom to influence the player. and of course there is the platform that you can only reach as Peach which is totally unnecessary. I mean up until that point you have been doing on the fly problem solving and platforming beating up enemies and earning points if your timing is good, this is really a big slowdown from the earlier levels. The treadmill is the worst offender in yanking the player out of the game, holding down a button for several minutes disengages the player from the game and eventually boredom either makes them explore or makes them realize the real world again. When the player realizes the real world he is more likely to shut the game off. in short: Boredom + Game = Bad Idea. Ok, I see what you mean. I was thinking more of the layout rather then it's place as a whole (although the later is unarguably better). BTW, are you going into Game Desing? |
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Post by Spud on May 26, 2008 12:02:33 GMT -5
It's just a bad Idea to use boredom to influence the player. and of course there is the platform that you can only reach as Peach which is totally unnecessary. I mean up until that point you have been doing on the fly problem solving and platforming beating up enemies and earning points if your timing is good, this is really a big slowdown from the earlier levels. The treadmill is the worst offender in yanking the player out of the game, holding down a button for several minutes disengages the player from the game and eventually boredom either makes them explore or makes them realize the real world again. When the player realizes the real world he is more likely to shut the game off. in short: Boredom + Game = Bad Idea. Ok, I see what you mean. I was thinking more of the layout rather then it's place as a whole (although the later is unarguably better). BTW, are you going into Game Design? I've thought about it. Thats why I read books on programming and Design and such. Though through this is become quite clear just what you need to know to be successful, which is quite a bit. Right now I doubt I'd be able to even collab something as nice as pong  . Theres not a lot of resources in Texas for this sort of thing. So you kinda figure stuff out on your own. Mainly I program though. |
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Post by Smashchu on May 26, 2008 16:48:37 GMT -5
Ok, I see what you mean. I was thinking more of the layout rather then it's place as a whole (although the later is unarguably better). BTW, are you going into Game Design? I've thought about it. Thats why I read books on programming and Design and such. Though through this is become quite clear just what you need to know to be successful, which is quite a bit. Right now I doubt I'd be able to even collab something as nice as pong . Theres not a lot of resources in Texas for this sort of thing. So you kinda figure stuff out on your own. Mainly I program though. I found the best resource is to listen to developers talk, like Wii Wright or Miyamoto. You'll learn a lot if you listen too their philosophies and how they come to their ideas. It's that line of thought that makes them great. That and your own knowledge of videogames and what makes them fun. I'd like to start learning some programming myself. Are you yourself trying to make a working game? |
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Post by Koopaul on May 26, 2008 23:41:19 GMT -5
Look the whole thing was that Super Paper Mario managed to make the four different characters work. (I'm just talking characters here) And that a Mario game COULD have multiple characters if they wanted to. While everyone has mixed feeling about SPM, we can all agree that having Peach, Bowser, and Luigi playable wasn't the problem.
(By the way, SPM got average scores from most reviewers it can't be that terrible)
So yeah, if we had a traditional platformer but you could choose to play as Mario, Luigi, Peach, ect. We'd all agree that would be pretty awesome right?
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