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Post by Smashchu on Sept 15, 2007 19:53:18 GMT -5
As Nintendo Database.....ers we seem to like the obscured and region specific more then most. Mostly because we post on a forum linked to a site with this kind of info, bgut also because we know our Nintendo and know of games from outside of "the know". But not everyone does, and Sakurai has said he will not be adding Japanese only characters BUT he might as Marth and Roy have been popular.
So what are your thoughts. Should he. Would it be OK? Do we need it? Debates are welcome but keep it clean.
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Post by Fryguy64 on Sept 15, 2007 20:18:03 GMT -5
A good idea to move this out of the Lyn thread ;D
I would like to make my position clear first. I don't prefer the obscure to the mainstream. I treat them as equals. I see no reason why just because a game was only released in one region or another should affect its chances for getting into Brawl. The same goes for old games that never received sequels.
With that said, the balance between Nintendo's most popular characters (Mario, Link, Pikachu), their middling characters (Fox, C. Falcon, Samus) and their obscure characters (Marth, Ice Climber, Mr. Game & Watch) has so far been great.
As I outlined in another thread though, the problem comes down to this:
1) Nintendo put all of their most popular heroes in the first Super Smash Bros. game, as well as a couple of lesser-knowns.
2) In Melee, the character roster expanded in two distinct directions - popular secondary characters (Bowser, Mewtwo, Ganondorf) and obscure heroes (Ice Climbers, Marth, Roy).
3) In Brawl, a couple of popular heroes have been added - Diddy Kong, Wario and Pokemon Trainer. Secondary characters? Well, technically Wario and Diddy are secondary - as is Meta-Knight. We also have Pit, who falls into the same category as Ness... an obscure hero with a large and vocal fanbase.
4) There are many more heroes that would fit into a Smash Bros. game brilliantly. Sukapon and Takamaru are the two I say most, but Stafi (popular in Japan right now) is also a good fit. And I'm not being one-sided about it. I agree wholeheartedly that Mike Jones would be a great fit also. But they are likely to be ignored in order to appease some imaginary xenophobia that Nintendo gamers have in the US.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Did Marth and Roy's inclusion in SSBM ruin the game for anyone? Make anyone angry or confused? Or did it simply give Nintendo the perfect opportunity to release a neglected game series outside of Japan... FINALLY... when it turned out they were popular fighters, even for Western players?
I am undecided on the Ness/Lucas issue. Ideally I'd like to see both. Realistically, I think Ness will stay (after seeing comments on a Japanese forum, Ness is still far and away the most popular choice).
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Post by parrothead on Sept 15, 2007 20:46:50 GMT -5
Some of the Japan-Only characters that have the best chances, in my opinion are: * Marth (Fire Emblem 1: Dark Dragon and Sword of Light) - Do I have to say anything about Marth? * Lucas (MOTHER 3/GBA EarthBound) - Because |1.| he was mentioned twice in Sakurai's SSBB poll, |2.| some musicians working on SSBB also worked on M3/GBA EB, and |3.| the look of the Franklin Badge item in SSBB matches the real one sold along with M3/GBA EB. * Claus (MOTHER 3/GBA EarthBound) - Same reasons why Lucas has a good chance at entering. However, heroes/heroines are more important than villains. Wouldn't you want Bowser without Mario? * EBA/Ouendan (Elite Beat Agents/Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan series) - Because the Ouendan were mentioned twice in Sakurai's SSBB poll. While the EBA are the English version of the Ouendan, the EBA will probably appear in the English versions of SSBB, while the Ouendan will appear in the Japanese version of SSBB. * Skapon (Joy Mech Fight) - Because |1.| he was mentioned once in Sakurai's SSBM poll, |2.| he was mentioned twice in Sakurai's SSBB poll, and |3.| is the main fighter in Nintendo's first modern 2D fighter. Even though, Urban Champion was Nintendo's first 2D fighter, it wasn't inspired by Capcom's Street Fighter II: The World Warrior (the game that best defines modern 2D fighter), which Urban Champion was prior to SFII: TWW. Joy Mech Fight is like SFII, but with simpler controls. * DeMille (Tomato Adventure) - Because |1.| he was mentioned twice in Sakurai's SSBB poll, |2.| he has plenty of funny and unique moves, as well as some extreme attacks that are just like Final Smash moves, and |3.| he is the best of Chihiro Fujioka's original characters for SSBB other than the more popular choices: Geno and Mallow (which are third-party). * Takamaru (Nazo no Murasame-jo) - Because |1.| he is Nintendo's first samurai character before Samurai Goroh, |2.| he has plenty of moves other than slashing with a katana, and |3.| he was mentioned three times in Sakurai's SSBB poll. AND FINALLY... * Stafy (Densetsu no Stafy series) - Because |1.| he is very popular in Japan. So popular, the series got a bunch of Stafy merchandise, like birthday balloons, casino cards, decals and stickers, pencils, music albums, and even Stafy-shaped Japanese food. Also, |2.| he has plenty of moves. |
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Post by TV Eye on Sept 15, 2007 20:58:21 GMT -5
I have no problem with Japanese only characters, as long as they're not littered throughout Brawl. I think two or three should be enough. Maybe Marth, Takamaru, and Stafy. But I doubt some of those will get in.
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Post by Smashchu on Sept 15, 2007 21:06:37 GMT -5
I am undecided on the Ness/Lucas issue. Ideally I'd like to see both. Realistically, I think Ness will stay (after seeing comments on a Japanese forum, Ness is still far and away the most popular choice). WEll that's a handy peixce of info there. I'd also like to see both. Ness was based off of Paula. Lucas could easily take Ness/Lucas set of moves. Having more status moves and make in a offensive/Defensive characters. Or Luigify him. I know Lucas has more weapons to work with. My only question is where is this forum and does anyone have a good way to learn Japanese. And Parrathead, I agree, but there is one thing. How I see it, there doesn't seem to be a lot of Japanese only characters I see as shoe ins, or even good chances. Starfy, Takamaru and Lucas seem to be the only ones who have a good shot. Ouendan too, but we'll get EBA so that doesn't count as much. There aren't many good choicers since most big names (besides Starfy for some reason) make it to the west. So there can be loads of debate. But I will agree that most have some chance. As for me, I'm more to expanding franchises. I like to see more characters from exisiting franchises, but besides Takamaru, most of the franchises I'd like to see have been brought to the west: Golden Sun, Pikmin and Punch-Out. So personally, I am not as parcial to the Japanese only characters. But I will pretty much be happy with what I get. Oh, forgot to mention Marth, but I think we all agree he's probobly going to come back. |
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Post by parrothead on Sept 15, 2007 21:38:12 GMT -5
I am undecided on the Ness/Lucas issue. Ideally I'd like to see both. Realistically, I think Ness will stay (after seeing comments on a Japanese forum, Ness is still far and away the most popular choice). And Parrathead, I agree, but there is one thing. How I see it, there doesn't seem to be a lot of Japanese only characters I see as shoe ins, or even good chances. Starfy, Takamaru and Lucas seem to be the only ones who have a good shot. Ouendan too, but we'll get EBA so that doesn't count as much. There aren't many good choicers since most big names (besides Starfy for some reason) make it to the west. So there can be loads of debate. But I will agree that most have some chance. As for me, I'm more to expanding franchises. I like to see more characters from exisiting franchises, but besides Takamaru, most of the franchises I'd like to see have been brought to the west: Golden Sun, Pikmin and Punch-Out. So personally, I am not as parcial to the Japanese only characters. But I will pretty much be happy with what I get. Oh, forgot to mention Marth, but I think we all agree he's probobly going to come back. True, Sakurai and the rest of the SSBB crew must choose wisely on which Japan-Only characters deserve to enter the most. In SSB64, there were no Japan-Only characters. In SSBM, there were two (more if you count the Japan-Only trophies, except for Tamagon, Doshin, Jashin, and the Heririn, due to also being known in Europe as well as Japan). In SSBB, I would say it will probably have between 2 - 4 Japan-Only characters. Stafy seems very popular. However, it looks like TOSE owns more of the Stafy series rights than Nintendo. Also, Stafy wasn't mentioned in Sakurai's poll, probably because Sakurai thought he looked similar to Kirby, and thought he wouldn't fit as a playable, because every character fights on land more than in watery areas. Stafy is probably weaker on land than in water. Doesn't Lucas have a different moveset when compared to Ness? If so, then Sakurai might add Lucas AND Ness both to please the MOTHER 3/GBA EarthBound fans along with the MOTHER 2/SNES EarthBound fans. |
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Post by Da Robot on Sept 15, 2007 21:41:35 GMT -5
I want to see some Japanese only characters make it in to the game but I don't want the game to be overflowing with them. I like the idea and concepts that some of these characters bring to the game.
The Japanese character that I would want to see in the game would be:
Skapon - One of Nintendo's first 2-D fighters.
Takamaru - He sounds like a good character for the game.
Starfy - To help promote him to the rest of the world.
And also Marth and Lucas unless Ike and Ness stop their chances of getting in.
The Ouendan/EBA I would think would make a better Assist Trophy than a playable character unless a good moveset can be made for them.
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Post by Smashchu on Sept 15, 2007 21:50:08 GMT -5
Stafy seems very popular. However, it looks like TOSE owns more of the Stafy series rights than Nintendo. Also, Stafy wasn't mentioned in Sakurai's poll, probably because Sakurai thought he looked similar to Kirby, and thought he wouldn't fit as a playable, because every character fights on land more than in watery areas. Stafy is probably weaker on land than in water. Wouldn't doubt that. Sakurai has a very strange logic. But, doesn't Starfy come out of the water in the games. I mean, he did fall from the sky. The only other reason I can think of niot relesing them in the west is that NoA fears they won't sell well. Kirby games do OK hear, but this is also becuase it's a long running, and established franchise. NoA doesn't take many risk. Their moves are exactly the same, except Lucas has more. I'd like to see both actually. I'm for a clone/luigi. Makes everyone happy. |
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thores
Bubbles
Kirby and Pikachu: BFF
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Post by thores on Sept 15, 2007 22:04:32 GMT -5
|2.| He is the fastest swimmer Parrothead, please, please answer this for me: How is that relevant to ANYTHING. You usually make good points, but I don't see how Stafy being a good swimmer makes him even slightly likely for Brawl. |
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Post by parrothead on Sept 15, 2007 22:24:02 GMT -5
How many Japan-Only characters were mentioned in Sakurai's SSBM poll? All I can think of are Richard (For the Frog the Bell Tolls), the Marvelous bunch (Marvelous: Another Treasure Island), Marth (Fire Emblem 1 and 3), and Skapon (Joy Mech Fight). In one of the two DeMille posts in Sakurai's poll, someone gave the idea of having a Tomato Robot as DeMille's Final Smash, which probably gave DeMille one step closer to entering SSBB as a playable. However, Sakurai might use the Tomato Robot as an Assist Trophy, with DeMille and Aretha (the girl with orange-colored clothes in TA) as pilots of the Tomato Robot. DeMille's fan base in Japan might not be too low, because Tomato Adventure is the father of the Mario & Luigi series, while I've seen some Tomato Adventure fan sites and pages on the Internet. EDIT: |2.| He is the fastest swimmer Parrothead, please, please answer this for me: How is that relevant to ANYTHING. You usually make good points, but I don't see how Stafy being a good swimmer makes him even slightly likely for Brawl. I forgot to remove that from my post. Just ignore it, I thought it made much sense, but I'm wrong. Read my second post in this thread about Stafy. |
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Post by Hiker of Games on Sept 15, 2007 22:36:59 GMT -5
When did Ouendan/EBA become second party games? Does Nintendo have any ownership of the franchise at all? Cuz the developer is definitely not second party.
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Post by NinjaRygar on Sept 16, 2007 0:26:52 GMT -5
Instead of both Ness and Lucas... I'd like them to include Ness and Flint instead.
Flint was a main character of Mother 3, and would have much more interesting attacks than Lucas. He could even have Boney with him. And would attack with a 2 by 4. And even though you play as him in the begining of the game... it sounds to me like he has just as much of an impact on the story of Mother 3 than Lucas... if not more. Flint would make a great rep for that game.
My reasons are... I don't want them to give Ness the axe. He doesn't deserve that. But at the same time, I want them to include somebody from Mother 3... but I don't want Lucas to be a clone... but he's so similar to Ness there would be no avoiding that. Flint would be a very original character... you agree?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2007 0:27:09 GMT -5
I've said it before, but I'll say it again...my take on region-specific characters is, "As long as Falco is playable, you can have whoever you want." Yeah, I gots my priorities in order. Seriously, I see a lot of potential in characters like Sukapon and Takamaru--but I'll admit to being a little bummed if they're in while Falco isn't. (Although really, I'll probably be more mad at Krystal than the obscure characters, because you know she'd be the one to bump him out of the roster. That stupid bitch.) |
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Post by NinjaRygar on Sept 16, 2007 0:32:51 GMT -5
I'm completely anit-Krystal. She's my biggest fear of getting into brawl...
If she replaces Falco... I'll be STEAMED. She's a hidious furry, and the starfox series' greatest game was Starfox 64, and she wasn't in that. I don't care if she uses a staff or not... I really don't want them to put in Krystal. I really don't.
Falco needs to be in, and he needs to have a few things worked on for his brawl appearance... including his own distinct moves, and a much more appropriate english voice. I can't stand hearing Falco say "Mishone, Comprete!" because he has a very distinct personality and his Smash Brothers appearance should reflect that.
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Post by kirbychu on Sept 16, 2007 4:01:06 GMT -5
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Did Marth and Roy's inclusion in SSBM ruin the game for anyone? Make anyone angry or confused? I was only referring to the Ness/Lucas thing when I said that. Nobody's going to be frustrated that somebody they've never heard of is in there, but if that person they've never heard of is replacing somebody they love, it'd be frustrating. Even more so when they find out it's somebody they can't even find out about in their country. I wouldn't mind seeing both of them in, and I'd accept it if Lucas replaces Ness... but I still wouldn't think it was a particularly good idea. I'm all for characters like Stafy and Sukapon, though. |
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