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Post by The Qu on Nov 23, 2007 21:27:11 GMT -5
Ooh, I hope this guy was telling the truth. I'd loves me some playable Sukapon. I'm afraid I don't have a cite for this, but I've heard quite a few times on Smashboards. Sukapon was supposed to be added to Melee. perhaps in the Ice Climbers spot. But the team couldn't get his unique physics right and dropped it. |
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Post by parrothead on Nov 23, 2007 23:53:54 GMT -5
FryGuy64, I saw that you modified the English Wikipedia article about Joy Mech Fight, while changing "Skapon" to "Sukapon" because you heard it's the English equivalent of "Sucker Punch". After I saw you modify the article, I immediately asked Thinkbeforeyouclick (the Wikipedia translator who translated the Wikipedia articles about some of Nintendo's Japan-Only titles) these questions: My quote:And here is his reply to my question:Source of this discussionAnother reason why I don't believe that "Sukapon" is an english equivalent of "Sucker Punch", is that I believe it was made up, while it turned into an "opinionated fact". Use this translator by Excite.co.jp to translate these Japanese names and see them for yourself. It's better than Google's and Babelfish's translators: カービィ (known in English as "Kirby") シャキール・オニール (known in English as "Shaquille O'Neal") 山内 溥 (known in English as "Hiroshi Yamauchi") スタフィー (known in English as "Stafy") スターフィー (known in English as "Starfy") スカポン (known in English as "Skapon") デミル (known in English as "DeMille") Here is what they turned out as after translating with the translator by Excite.co.jp: Carbi Shaquille O'Neal Hiroshi Yamauchi Staff Starfe Scapon DeMille In Google's translator, here is what they turned out as: Kirby Shaquille O'Neal Yamauchi,溥 SUTAFI SUTAFI SUKAPON DEMIRU In Babelfish's translator, here is what they turned out as: カービィ Plain gauze keel O'Neill Yamanouchi 溥 Star fee Star fee スカポン デミル Excite.co.jp's translator can translate Japanese names better than Google's and Babelfish's. |
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Post by TV Eye on Nov 24, 2007 0:03:30 GMT -5
Here is what they turned out as after translating with the translator by Excite.co.jp: Carbi Shaquille O'Neal Hiroshi Yamauchi Staff Starfe Scapon These translations are close enough. In Google's and Babelfish's translators (which are perhaps equal), here is what they turned out as: Kirby Shaquille O'Neal Yamauchi,溥 SUTAFI SUTAFI SUKAPON Excite.co.jp's translator can translate Japanese names better than Google's and Babelfish's. From what I can tell, the Google and Babelfish seemed to get the most right...Kirby, Shaq, and Yamauchi (aside from his last name) are all spelled correctly. Stafy seems to be right as well with the Google translator, as I have heard no one ever call him "Staff". I don't know. I think "Sukapon" is the correct way, but we may someday see. |
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Post by parrothead on Nov 24, 2007 0:05:13 GMT -5
OFF TOPIC:Here is what they turned out as after translating with the translator by Excite.co.jp: Carbi Shaquille O'Neal Hiroshi Yamauchi Staff Starfe Scapon These translations are close enough. In Google's and Babelfish's translators (which are perhaps equal), here is what they turned out as: Kirby Shaquille O'Neal Yamauchi,溥 SUTAFI SUTAFI SUKAPON Excite.co.jp's translator can translate Japanese names better than Google's and Babelfish's. From what I can tell, the Google and Babelfish seemed to get the most right...Kirby, Shaq, and Yamauchi (aside from his last name) are all spelled correctly. Stafy seems to be right as well with the Google translator, as I have heard no one ever call him "Staff". I don't know. I think "Sukapon" is the correct way, but we may someday see. I modified my post you quoted. Babelfish is worse than Google's. Excite's translator can translate Japanese names better than Google and Babelfish can. Stafy and Skapon might be something else. Of course "Staff" is close to "Stafy", while it used the letter "C" instead of the letter "K" in "Kirby" and "Skapon." Thinkbeforeyouclick is probably saying that the name is actually spelled "Sukapon", but is pronounced "Skah-pon" instead of "Soo-kah-pon." "Sew-ka-pon" sounds kind of odd, just like calling Naruto "Nah-loo-toe" instead of "Na-roo-toe", because translators said that every time that there's an "R" in Japanese, it should be replaced with an "L". If the name is Japanese or it originated from Japan (e.g. Shigeru, Satoru, Shigesato, etc.), it should be kept that way. If the name is English or it originated from the countries that use English, it should be changed to the English names. ON TOPIC:For DeMille's chance at appearing in SSBB. Tomato Adventure might not look popular, but it is. Not as popular as MOTHER 3/GBA EarthBound. According to Sakurai, Saki Amamiya was requested many times, but neither of them were interesting enough to Sakurai. This probably also happened the same way to Pokemon Trainer and/or any or all of his three Pokemon. We also know that Sonic the Hedgehog wasn't mentioned in the same poll. Also, there probably was a lot of Stafy requests sent to Sakurai, due to the Densetsu no Stafy series being very popular in Japan, but neither of the requests were interesting enough to Sakurai. Sonic, Pokemon Trainer, Saki Amamiya and Stafy are all three popular characters. DeMille probably was requested many times (including my four requests sent to Sakurai using three PCs, different words and sentences in each message, and different user names). Only two were interesting in Sakurai's opinion. This probably means that Tomato Adventure is popular, but not as popular as MOTHER 3/GBA EarthBound. Several other characters were mentioned many times as well, while some characters got more of their requests mentioned in Sakurai's poll than DeMille and several others mentioned twice. DeMille still has a good chance at appearing, due to Tomato Adventure being popular (but not very popular) while DeMille has a large set of moves. Chihiro Fujioka probably would like to see him along with Geno in SSBB, due to Super Mario RPG and Tomato Adventure being directed by Fujioka himself. SmashChu in the Saki Amamiya thread said that a character needs good Importance, Popularity and Fightability in order to appear in SSBB. DeMille has medium Importance, medium Popularity and high Fightability. Stafy has high Importance, high Popularity and perhaps high Fightability. Takamaru has medium Importance, high Popularity and medium Fightability. Sukapon (pronounced as "Skah-pon") has low Importance, medium Popularity and medium Fightability.
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Post by 8bitretroshit on Nov 24, 2007 9:50:08 GMT -5
The hell? Takamaru slices ninja's apart and Sukapon beats the snot out of other robots. Both have plenty of special move material... How come their 'Fightability' is lower then the other two? Am I'm missing something? Also can't we just be patient and wait what NoA turns those names into. Surely they will appear as trophies atleast so we'll know the correct spelling in February. DeMille probably was requested many times (including my four requests sent to Sakurai using three PCs, different words and sentences in each message, and different user names). Haha |
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Post by TV Eye on Nov 24, 2007 10:46:46 GMT -5
DeMille has medium Importance, medium Popularity and high Fightability. Stafy has high Importance, high Popularity and perhaps high Fightability. Takamaru has medium Importance, high Popularity and medium Fightability. Sukapon (pronounced as "Skah-pon") has low Importance, medium Popularity and medium Fightability. The thing is though, you are keeping it in Japan territory. Before I came on this site, I had no idea who any of those characters were. And, if I'm not mistaken, Sukapon was in a fighting game. How the hell would you rate him "medium fightability" when a side scrolling star has "high fightability". He was a side scroller, right? |
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Post by Smashchu on Nov 24, 2007 14:29:59 GMT -5
DeMille probably was requested many times (including my four requests sent to Sakurai using three PCs, different words and sentences in each message, and different user names). LOL WUT? Also, if you want to judge popularity, give me some sales figures. Unless you go to Japanese forums, sales are the best way to determine how popular the character really is. |
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Post by rukifellth on Nov 24, 2007 14:36:42 GMT -5
Not neceserelly. Some people download games via Internet (but I only download those that won't come to Sweden...)
And let me tell you this: Don't judge a game by it's title. It's a great game. But the title.... uh.... sucks...
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Post by parrothead on Nov 24, 2007 17:52:53 GMT -5
DeMille has medium Importance, medium Popularity and high Fightability. Stafy has high Importance, high Popularity and perhaps high Fightability. Takamaru has medium Importance, high Popularity and medium Fightability. Sukapon (pronounced as "Skah-pon") has low Importance, medium Popularity and medium Fightability. The thing is though, you are keeping it in Japan territory. Before I came on this site, I had no idea who any of those characters were. And, if I'm not mistaken, Sukapon was in a fighting game. How the hell would you rate him "medium fightability" when a side scrolling star has "high fightability". He was a side scroller, right? He has a good set of moves. However, he probably lacks some things needed in SSBB, which would cost more time and effort for Sakurai and his crew to convert Sukapon into SSBB. Most notably, a survival air move that can be used as his UP+B move. I believe he has low Importance. Why? First, Joy Mech Fight was released for the Famicom in 1993 only in Japan. It wasn't released anywhere else, because of many people putting away their NES consoles, while buying and playing Super NES consoles. People then thought of the NES as the home console of the past. I also heard it didn't sell well enough. Second, the game is fifteen years old and there is still no sign of a sequel, a remake, a spin-off, nor anything else. The SSB series later became Nintendo's main fighting game series. Wouldn't you want to play Joy Mech Fight more than the SSB series? And then finally, Joy Mech Fight was inspired by Capcom's Street Fighter series, mostly Street Fighter II: The World Warrior. Even though, Capcom never did sue Nintendo for this, it might happen if Nintendo brought back Joy Mech Fight the same way. The hell? Takamaru slices ninja's apart and Sukapon beats the snot out of other robots. Both have plenty of special move material... How come their 'Fightability' is lower then the other two? Am I'm missing something? Also can't we just be patient and wait what NoA turns those names into. Surely they will appear as trophies atleast so we'll know the correct spelling in February. They might lack one thing: survival moves that can be used as their UP+B moves. They still have a good set of moves, but I decided to say they have medium Fightability. DeMille probably was requested many times (including my four requests sent to Sakurai using three PCs, different words and sentences in each message, and different user names). Haha I forgot to say that the fourth request was given to someone at Kirby's Rainbow Resort, so that they can translate it and send it to Sakurai, which it really was sent. Not neceserelly. Some people download games via Internet (but I only download those that won't come to Sweden...) And let me tell you this: Don't judge a game by it's title. It's a great game. But the title.... uh.... sucks... Title? You mean the name of the game? Tomato Adventure isn't as good as Gimmick Land. Gimmick Land was the name of the Game Boy Color prototype of Tomato Adventure. |
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Post by 8bitretroshit on Nov 25, 2007 5:23:19 GMT -5
Oh, okay that makes sense, though if all those characters will end up playable (yeah right) they'll just make up some recovery moves, like they did with Marth. I can see Skapon's (Sukaponwhatever who cares) side B being that flyingfloaty roll move he has in his game, making for a clumsy recovery. And Takamaru..... uhh... hmm.......
...maybe the cloaking special move from his game, though it would be a ripoff of Mewtwo's teleport.
Personally I think all their fightabilities are high, but you're pretty right about the other points (though wasn't Skapon requested a shitload for both Melee's and Brawl's poll?). Oh and one last question, just curious: What could Demille's recovery be?
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Post by rukifellth on Nov 25, 2007 15:09:46 GMT -5
Parrothead already mentioned it before. He would use the hover board from the minigames.
Oh, and your right Parrothead! Gimmick-Land is a lot better than Tomato Adventure.
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Post by parrothead on Nov 25, 2007 19:04:14 GMT -5
ON TOPIC: After hearing about Sakurai saying that he will add Takamaru and Sukapon (pronounced "Skah-pon") if another Mystery of Murasame Castle or Joy Mech Fight title is released or remade (excluding rereleases). This probably means that contemporary characters have a slightly better chance at entering than some retro characters, which Lucas is a contemporary character. However, there are some retro characters that represent unforgotten moments, like Pit and the Ice Climbers representing the Famicom/NES era. SLIGHTLY OFF TOPIC: I posted this in the DeMille support thread at SmashBoards. Up+B: Hoverboard (This is not one of his Gimmicks, but he used it in some miniature game parts of the RPG. If he was using it in SSBB, then he would use it like an airboard, while he would use a limited amount of fuel to hover for a short time). When DeMille uses his hoverboard:  After DeMille uses his hoverboard while in the air:  (When on the ground, the fire from the rockets built into the Hoverboard will burst toward both directions at a very short distance, while DeMille will fly upward at a long distance for a short time. When in the air, the Hoverboard will fly upward at a short distance, while DeMille will still be on it, making him fall a bit slower than before.) |
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Post by rukifellth on Nov 26, 2007 4:28:15 GMT -5
And the flames should harm your opponents...
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Post by Fryguy64 on Nov 26, 2007 5:43:00 GMT -5
Jumping back to the name thing, because this is really getting on my nerves now... Parrothead, please read those translations again. Because they do not work like you think.
When these translation tools do not recognise certain words, they apply certain rules.
Excite.co.jp applies the rule you use, which is to go for the "generic" ruling on such matters - certain Ks become Cs, it makes a guess at Ls and Rs, and it removes nearly all Us from the word.
Babelfish simply romanizes them exactly as they appear.
Google does what Jim Breen's tool does - ignores it and displays the original Japanese.
None of them are perfect, and they all get it wrong. They also all have words that people submit as translations. Excite won't translate "Super Famicom", but calls it the "Nintendo Super Entertainment System" which is wrong in more ways than one.
Relying on any one of these tools to give you an accurate translation is both ignorant and ludicrous. There's only one rule you need to apply:
If it's a Japanese name, translate it directly without applying any rules - simply romanize it. If it's an English (or Western) name, or a name based on English (or Western) words, then write them in English, or make your best guess based on the English words.
Seeing as Joy Mecha Fight's title and all of its character names are based on English/Western words (Little Eamon/Ivan Walnut), don't you think it is ridiculous to apply Japanese naming rules to them? Why should this be any different for Sukapon, whose name IS UNDENIABLY based on the VERY REAL ENGLISH PHRASE "Sucker Punch".
You must be able to tell the difference of rules between English- and Japanese-originated names. I mean, why do you say DeMille instead of Demiru or Demilu or Demil? Why do you say Stafy instead of Stafi?
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Post by parrothead on Nov 26, 2007 20:23:30 GMT -5
Jumping back to the name thing, because this is really getting on my nerves now... Parrothead, please read those translations again. Because they do not work like you think. When these translation tools do not recognise certain words, they apply certain rules. Excite.co.jp applies the rule you use, which is to go for the "generic" ruling on such matters - certain Ks become Cs, it makes a guess at Ls and Rs, and it removes nearly all Us from the word. Babelfish simply romanizes them exactly as they appear. Google does what Jim Breen's tool does - ignores it and displays the original Japanese. None of them are perfect, and they all get it wrong. They also all have words that people submit as translations. Excite won't translate "Super Famicom", but calls it the "Nintendo Super Entertainment System" which is wrong in more ways than one. Relying on any one of these tools to give you an accurate translation is both ignorant and ludicrous. There's only one rule you need to apply: If it's a Japanese name, translate it directly without applying any rules - simply romanize it. If it's an English (or Western) name, or a name based on English (or Western) words, then write them in English, or make your best guess based on the English words. Seeing as Joy Mecha Fight's title and all of its character names are based on English/Western words (Little Eamon/Ivan Walnut), don't you think it is ridiculous to apply Japanese naming rules to them? Why should this be any different for Sukapon, whose name IS UNDENIABLY based on the VERY REAL ENGLISH PHRASE "Sucker Punch". You must be able to tell the difference of rules between English- and Japanese-originated names. I mean, why do you say DeMille instead of Demiru or Demilu or Demil? Why do you say Stafy instead of Stafi? "Sucker Punch" is just a coincidence AND AN OPINIONATED FACT. Didn't you discover it yourself OR did someone else discover it? There are a few robots named in English, while others are named in something else, like Sasuku and Senju, which are similar to the name Sukapon / Skapon. Can you find English equivelants of those two names? Excite's translator can translate Japanese names better than Google's can, while Google's can translate English names better than Excite can. Read Thinkbeforeyouclick's reply to my question on how exactly スタフィー and スカポン are translated as, again: I really know nothing about either of these games, but I agree with your reasoning for spelling "スタフィー" as "Stafy." For "スカポン" my guess is that the word "スカ" is meant to connotate a missed attempt, emptiness or some sort of generic quality (for example, when you swallow Waddle Dee in some of the older Kirby games, Kirby's copy ability is briefly labeled as "スカ" because Waddle Dee has no special abilities). It probably isn't the equivalent of "Sucker Punch" because that would be "サカパン" (サッカーパンチ) and I don't think the word "Sucker" is that common to Japanese people. I personally would write it as "Sukapon," because "s-u-k-a-p-o-n-n" is what you type on the keyboard for "スカポン." However, "Skapon" sounds more like the actual pronunciation in Japanese, so it's really just a matter of preference.
It is interesting to note that Ska, a type of Jamaican music, is "スカ" on the ja wiki. This may add to your case for it being "Skapon." Thinkbeforeyouclick (talk) 17:57, 23 November 2007 (UTC)"Sucker Punch" is just a coincidence AND AN OPINIONATED FACT. Did you or someone else discovered that? Some fighting robots in Joy Mech Fight have English names, while some of them have others like Sasuku and Senju. Are there any English equivelants of those two names? I prefer DeMille, not only because Excite.co.jp translated his name that was, but also when I used his Japanese name in Yahoo! and Google. Some results say Cecil B. DeMille and Nelson DeMille. Cecil B. DeMille has an English and a Japanese Wikipedia article. Compare デミル to DeMille. There are several reasons why I prefer Stafy more than Stafi, Starfy and Starfy. In the North American and Japanese versions of the game Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, a poster in the game features a cameo of Stafy titled as "Legend of Stafy", which is perhaps what Nintendo believes as the English name for Densetsu no Stafy. Nintendo would of called the first Fire Emblem released worldwide as Fire Emblem: Sword of Fire if all Fire Emblem titles before that were released worldwide, but many people believe it's "Blazing Sword". However, both Nintendo and fan translators picked "Sword of Seals" for the sixth Fire Emblem title, while some fan translators picked "Sealed Sword". In the credits of the first Densetsu no Stafy title, it is referred to as "Densetsu no Stafy". Finally, the official Japanese Stafy series websites use the spelling "Stafy" in their URL paths and image names. If it were spelt with "Star", it would have a dash after the "ta" in Japanese and look like this スターフィー, which it does not. In Japanese and English the confirmed romanization is Stafy. I used the latest Internet Explorer from college to post this reply, which might not correctly show the Japanese names. EDIT: I've corrected the Japanese text. |
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