The Roster Thread

[Deleted]

Lists detract from discussion; that's always been the most basic issue with the concept, so if there's any deeper reason for why we avoid them, Fry himself will tell you why. The basic principal has been enough for me, because I don't want this MB to devolve into the same places that VGF, TSF and MFGG wound up becoming.

What's more fun: when I provide you a list of whom I want to see in Brawl, or when I provide a detailed explination of the same? The former certainly doesn't leave as much room for debate.

[Smashchu]

I'm probably over reacting, but I'm making a big deal now becuase I know that this can easily be a problem in the future.

I can agree with Tie, explanation adds to the discussion. The problem is that no member should be forced to do this, but rather expected. It should be expected that you add some explanation. The reason for it being a slap on the wrist is that it something that's minor. You aren't flaming, trolling or spamming. Those are actual offenses. You may have forgot or didn't think about it. It's human error. So why delete a post just becuase someone didn't add an explanation? Talk to any other mod. It's ludicrous.

The reason I'm over reacting is that I love this MB. It's a great place and has a great community. But I'm starting to see things could turn to the worse. I had no problem with the first ax. Made sense. But then there was an ax on Mother 3 spoiler. An entire post was deleted becuase someone didn't add spoiler tags. A better solution would be to just add them in and tell the member what they did. It's fair. They didn't cause any major offense, and it's easily fixed. Deleting causes more problems. It detracts from the conversation, is useless and spoils it for everyone. It's wield an ax like a made man. And this is the second offense. Deleting three post because members didn't give explanation (remember that it's been a long time since the topic was brought up and there is no rule thread so this is easily forgotten). Now, those post are gone forever. What was written was lost. What if someone forgot what they posted. Not to mention fair warning was, indeed, not given. You said something Tie, but only I was one between you saying something and the deletion. I also added my reason. Even if it was in another post, it now makes a nice whole in the conversation. The deletion was wrong.

These things should never be enforced. Normally, it was just brought on by the members that you shouldn't post list. Everyone abide by the rules as it was looked down upon for doing it, and it gave more respect for doing so. It was a rule that didn't need enforcement becuase it was reinforced in it's own way and it worked. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The problem here is that now post get the ax just becuase it was a list. If Fry said, "Edit your post guys. List are no no" then it would be more like "Oh, OK. Sorry I forgot" then what it actually was.

I have always seen Fry as the best example for a good Mod. He was fair, added greatly to the discussions, but never really brought down the hammer unless need be. He never really punished anyone, but one could argue if this was ever a problem. He was fair. You would receive a warning and if something was truly wrong then he would bring the hammer down. Now, it's feeling like the hammer comes down on every little thing rather then where it's actually needed. It really started back at the Mother 3 spoiler thing. Why delete a topic when the spoiler tags could have been added, and a warning given. it was not a serious offense no matter how you look at it.

Long story short, nothing is wrong right now, but it's defiantly getting there. NinDB never needed heavy moderation, and it still doesn't. Moderation for the big things like flaming (probably the biggest) is always fine but moddding for Spoilers and "list" is exacive. I'm bringing it up now so a problem doesn't happen in the future, and the MB goes to hell.

Also, DiU, I took your advice and made a new thread.

[Spud]

smashchu2 said:

I'm probably over reacting, but I'm making a big deal now becuase I know that this can easily be a problem in the future.

I can agree with Tie, explanation adds to the discussion. The problem is that no member should be forced to do this, but rather expected. It should be expected that you add some explanation. The reason for it being a slap on the wrist is that it something that's minor. You aren't flaming, trolling or spamming. Those are actual offenses. You may have forgot or didn't think about it. It's human error. So why delete a post just becuase someone didn't add an explanation? Talk to any other mod. It's ludicrous.

The reason I'm over reacting is that I love this MB. It's a great place and has a great community. But I'm starting to see things could turn to the worse. I had no problem with the first ax. Made sense. But then there was an ax on Mother 3 spoiler. An entire post was deleted becuase someone didn't add spoiler tags. A better solution would be to just add them in and tell the member what they did. It's fair. They didn't cause any major offense, and it's easily fixed. Deleting causes more problems. It detracts from the conversation, is useless and spoils it for everyone. It's wield an ax like a made man. And this is the second offense. Deleting three post because members didn't give explanation (remember that it's been a long time since the topic was brought up and there is no rule thread so this is easily forgotten). Now, those post are gone forever. What was written was lost. What if someone forgot what they posted.

These things should never be enforced. Normally, it was just brought on by the members that you shouldn't post list. Everyone abide by the rules as it was looked down upon for doing it, and it gave more respect for doing so. It was a rule that didn't need enforcement becuase it was reinforced in it's own way and it worked. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The problem here is that now post get the ax just becuase it was a list. If Fry said, "Edit your post guys. List are no no" then it would be more like "Oh, OK. Sorry I forgot" then what it actually was.

I have always seen Fry as the best example for a good Mod. He was fair, added greatly to the discussions, but never really brought down the hammer unless need be. He never really punished anyone, but one could argue if this was ever a problem. He was fair. You would receive a warning and if something was truly wrong then he would bring the hammer down. Now, it's feeling like the hammer comes down on every little thing rather then where it's actually needed. It really started back at the Mother 3 spoiler thing. Why delete a topic when the spoiler tags could have been added, and a warning given. it was not a serious offense no matter how you look at it.

Long story short, nothing is wrong right now, but it's defiantly getting there. NinDB never needed heavy moderation, and it still doesn't. Moderation for the big things like flaming (probably the biggest) is always fine but moddding for Spoilers and "list" is exacive. I'm bringing it up now so a problem doesn't happen in the future, and the MB goes to hell.

Also, DiU, I took your advice and made a new thread.

I direct you here:

admin said:

On this forum I have tried to foster a healthy atmosphere of debate, so if someone disagrees with another, then they are free to counter it with reasonable arguments. I am seeing less and less of these, and more and more regular old arguments.

Very soon, as in... this weekend... I will start wielding my Admin Axe in a cruel and efficient manner, I will not be taking any prisoners. Regardless of whether you decide to help the situation or not by cutting this stupid and immature behaviour out right now... I will be stopping this. My actions could be anything, they could be unexpected, and they could be unannounced (well... except this counts as a kind of announcement).

Appears it's still in effect and on mostly anything out of place.

[Johans Nidorino]

I prefer deleted lists than locked threads. Unlike that one BooDestroyer's thread about trophies where I was willing to post something other than a list

On-topic: Billy Hatcher for Brawl!

[Smashchu]

Spud:The ax was always to stop the bickering, not try to enforce the rule that only this MB has. This only shows how bad things can get. How is posting list and spoilers immature, and need modding?

Also, it begs the question where was that posted. It could be easily forgotten and was not in a sticked thread.

The point was why mod for things like list and spoilers. Things that are so pointless that moding them causes more trouble then prevents. That's the point. Mod flame. Mod spam. Mod trolling. But don't mod useless minor of offenses like these. They are minor, and can just be a warning.

I will agree that SSBB needed moderation, but there was a reason Parrothead was made a mod. It's not to insult him, but it is his job to step in and sort these out. Could he be blamed? Maybe. But in his defense a situation like this is new to the message board. Regardless, someone fumbled. So moderation was needed. But a cruel and efficient manner is not effective at all. Talk to any behaviorist and they'll slap you across the face. And it's this in which I'm homing in on. This can easily take a very sharp turn for the worst. It's an easy fix at best, but it could become a MB that shuns all new members by forcing all existing members to either conform to feel the "ax". It could easily drive a lot of members away (especially since you can't find another MB that gives two shits about a list) and prevent any new ones from coming in.

The SSBB board is probably the best thing that has happened to this MB, regardless of what you guys may thing. Look at any post in this MB and count the number of people who were here before this board was made. Most of the time, you find a large number of the people in that post came after this board was made. I think a lot have stayed becuase of the community which is thanks to what Fry (and others) have done. Now, that is in jeopardy as what has been a symbol of the board is being thrown to the side. I fear that the ax may only get sharper, and it's the community which will suffer.

I'm for the deletion of bad post but the labeling is starting to get broader and it can get worse.

It's not to be mean to Fry. I respect him. This is partly why I'm doing this. I don't want him to be like the Smashboards mods and have his post saying "G-Moding the delete button". I love this community. I love the people (not in that way) so I hope for the best. (Also, sorry to Parrothead. I wasn't trying to be mean, but was pointing something out).

[TV Eye]

This topic has gotten out of hand.

The rules are fine IMO, and I believe this train should be brought back on track.

Also, almost every post is an impenetrable wall of text.

[Goomba Joe]

Billy Hatcher as an AT would be brilliant! I loved that game; it deserves some recognition.

[Fryguy64]

I have responded directly to Smashchu, and even before reading these posts here, I have tackled something that has come up... I have finally posted the forum rules in the NinDB General forum.

The Golden Rule here has ALWAYS been the Golden Rule - only post if you have something interesting to say. I thought this was enough, as it really seemed to foster a healthy community.

After seeing a few people posting really long lists without thinking about them (years ago) I extended the rule to "No Lists without explanations". This rule has been in place for a long time, and any regular member should be well aware that lists get deleted due to:
A) Nobody will actually read them; and
B) They are not interesting, insightful or clever, despite what the list-poster believes... halting discussion, or leading to endless "who is that?"

It started with lists of "sequels you'd like to see" - but without an explanation, you ended up with people simply listing dozens of games and putting "2" on the end. The list rule put a stop to this, and encouraged everyone to think about what they posted, making posts more interesting, encouraging discussion, and significantly cutting down on the unreadable and boring lists. Since then, we have hardly had any lists - and whenever one turns up, someone rightfully points out the rule.

Since announcing that I would be wielding the axe - I have edited/deleted 6 posts. Three of them were the lists on this page - all posted by members who really should have known better. One was a Mother 3 spoiler posted barely a couple weeks after I clearly established the rules of posting Mother 3 spoilers - and to clear this up - I edited the post rather than adding a spoiler tag, because the spoiler was completely irrelevant to the discussion anyway. The other two were very aggressive posts. I would hardly say after 2 months, this counts as "going over the top" or being "totalitarian".

The axe was necessary, as we were about to lose a lot of members. Personal messages, instant messages, and my own opinion led me to take a strict approach. The forums had become an unpleasant place to be. The Golden Rule was being ignored, members were being openly aggressive to each other and to me, and the atmosphere here became quite nasty. People were going to leave. I am on the side of those people who felt that certain members were responsible for this shift in attitude.

The axe is still a temporary measure. It's there because several regular, seasoned members are acting like dickish n00bs. I had a tough call. I could treat everyone equally, and treat you all like dickish n00bs, handing out warnings and bans. But instead I opted for editing/deleting offending posts, because I really don't want to ban any regulars, or even temporarily suspend you. I just want you to know that you've done wrong, and you can still be punished.

Smashchu - I don't think you quite understand that last point. You have done wrong. You sometimes have a very bad attitude that makes myself and other members feel very uncomfortable. You also sometimes have a great sense of humour and a lot to contribute. I want to take your bad half and give it a bloody good clobbering, and I want to take your good half and give it a pint of foaming, nut-brown ale.

[kirbychu]

smashchu2 said:

The point was why mod for things like list and spoilers. Things that are so pointless that moding them causes more trouble then prevents. That's the point. Mod flame. Mod spam. Mod trolling. But don't mod useless minor of offenses like these. They are minor, and can just be a warning.

I thought a post deletion was just a warning. What lasting punishment is affecting you here? You haven't lost any privileges, you've just lost a single completely useless list. Unless you're just upset that your post count has gone down by one, but that's completely the wrong attitude to have.

[Spud]

kirbychu said:

smashchu2 said:

The point was why mod for things like list and spoilers. Things that are so pointless that moding them causes more trouble then prevents. That's the point. Mod flame. Mod spam. Mod trolling. But don't mod useless minor of offenses like these. They are minor, and can just be a warning.

I thought a post deletion was just a warning. What lasting punishment is affecting you here? You haven't lost any privileges, you've just lost a single completely useless list. Unless you're just upset that your post count has gone down by one, but that's completely the wrong attitude to have.

Your post count doesn't go down when posts are deleted. Only when Fry plays with it.

[kirbychu]

...Then I'm even more confused.

This topic is the dictionary definition of "silly". Aren't we supposed to be talking about roosters?

The Plymouth Rock is a very good breed, also.

[Johans Nidorino]

I had two Plymouth Rocks in the past. One of them was always very angry and pecked me at the first chance, resulting in painful bruises unless I approached it from behind. The guy was possessed or something.

Somebody was mentioning Chocobos as playable characters last week, and it sounded interesting.

[parrothead]

Me and my father established a chicken ranch, as well as our new home we moved in (which we still live there) back in 1999. We first raised Old English Gold Duckwings and Old English Silver Duckwings, and then we sold them to some Mexican Americans to help buy enough material to build a hen house and a couple of chicken coops. Right now, we raise Ameraucanas. Wheatens, Blue Wheatens and a couple of splash-colored called Red Pyle. We also joined the Ameraucana Breeders Club.

I used to have a Barred Rock rooster name Big Daddy (which I named him after the nickname of his previous owner, one of my uncles) who was nice at first, but then became mean and wanted to flog nearly everyone he sees. He even flogged one of our neighbor's children. When my father heard about this, he sent Big Daddy to someone who wanted a large, mean rooster. I recorded his crows with my voice recorder, but I haven't got to upload them yet. However, I uploaded a video showing Big Daddy fighting against Bob.

[Spud]

nidorino said:

Somebody was mentioning Chocobos as playable characters last week, and it sounded interesting.

I would give my left arm to see a cucco fight a chocobo.
That would certainly make brawl for me.

[TV Eye]

I say a cock-fighting video game should be released. Starring major bird-like characters! (Such as Chocobo, Cucco, Oocaa, Pidgit, etc.) That would be a kickass game.