Who would be next to enter the Smash Spotlight

[Smashchu]

dancesinunderwear said:

However, if it is possible - and I'd wager that it would have to be easier this time around, as they've already established it - to get a huge amount of third party characters in there, then we get our important notable characters and the different playstyles that come with them.

I would disagree. There are the reasons why not top go down this route. For one, this sort of thing has never been done before. Getting rights for a small part of a game. Not only is their red tape, but also royalty issues. So, down the line, it could be bothersome.

Of course the main reason is that which I tell a friend with the same line of thinking. It is a Nintendo fighting game. Having a third party character is nice and all, but is not Nintendo. It is a guest. So, having too many changes the idea of Smash Brothers. Now, instead of a guest, we have a party. It ditracts from Nintendo. Not tro mention Nintendo would probably rather keep it in the realm of Nintendo for their own best interest (keep more royalties, less red tape, few problems ensuring characters return).

Of course, I'm not against third party characters. I'd like to see a new open in Smash, but I would think they should only do so if there is an insain amount of request for said character.

EDIT:A though. They could just build on the third party in Brawl rather then expanding out greatly. Add Liquid Snake and Tails perhaps. Would solve a lot of the problems I brought up.

[TV Eye]

nekonekopanic said:

Sure, his game is rated M and is quite bloody, but as a character he is quite silly and not really that dark, so I think he'd fit well in Smash.

Just like Metal Gear Solid...

So, yeah. That's a good idea (though MGS isn't nearly as bloody).

[mopinks]

No More Heroes' M rating really goes beyond the blood, though. the game is completely vulgar in every possible way.

Travis Touchdown is awesome, but I really sincerely hope he's never in a Smash game.

[The Qu]

sgtmajorkururu said:

I think Ninty is Nintendo. And also, there's a pretty high likelihood an ED sequel will happen, it's just a matter of where. Denis Dyack, the game's producer, said that he had most of it planned out, that there were more Ancients aside from Chattur'gha, Xel'lotath, Ulyaoth and Mantorok; they need to focus on other projects (namely, Too Human) before it can come to pass, is all.

Ah yes. He talked about it in an EGM issue after ED (A most unfortunate acronym. ) came out. With the Sanity thing owned by Nintendo, I guess it'd come out on the Wii. *Shrugs*
Anyway, on topic. I see all of Brawl's characters returning except possibly Lucario, although he'd probably be there to rep the fourth generation. With older games, it depends on what gets a sequel or rerelease when. The VC is going to be good at getting old games slightly well known. It gives Mike Jones, Lil' Mac (I wouldn't expect him tho, what with him having a limited moveset) and others a chance.

[Dances in Undergarments]

smashchu2 said:

It is a Nintendo fighting game.

This is where I personally beg to differ - I consider it a video game all star fighting game that, due to limitations with rights and whatever, was forced to draw entirely from Nintendo to start with. From there, its expanded into more of a Nintendo game, definitely, but I'm not sure that was ever the complete intention. We'll never know, though.

[Smashchu]

dancesinunderwear said:

smashchu2 said:

It is a Nintendo fighting game.

This is where I personally beg to differ - I consider it a video game all star fighting game that, due to limitations with rights and whatever, was forced to draw entirely from Nintendo to start with. From there, its expanded into more of a Nintendo game, definitely, but I'm not sure that was ever the complete intention. We'll never know, though.

Well, from the Iwata Ask, it was not meant to be a Nintendo fighting game at fist, but was later melded into one since it was hard to make a fighting game from scratch.

With 1 of the 3 games having third party characters and being without them for 7 of 9 years, then I think it's safe to say it was Nintendo, not video games.

One must be careful. Smash is indeed a Nintendo fighting game. According to Sakurai, that was the intention, and also what it is. It's trying to label something so one will sleep better at night. If it were truly a All star fighter, we would have had 3 third parties rather then 2 (not to mention Sonic was added late). I would advise against that thinking becuase it leads one into a trap. One beings to label it in their head and meld the idea and transform into their own version, no where near the original. It is a Nintendo fighting game.

But again, there are a lot of reasons why it would be be avoided. Namely red tape, but one idea is that eventually, you'll exhaust your resources. Not to mention, it's hard to take something from a big pot were everyone will like it. It much easier to pick Nintendo characters since your working with in one companies line-up. With third parties, you now have many lines up to chose. You can poll 50 smash fans and you'll probably get a lot of different 3rd party suggestions. This is why I believe it would be best to stick with ones who are very popular. The you know who you add is someone you'll want.

Sorry to dog on you, but I think terming it "All Star Fighter" and not "Nintendo fighter" loses focus.

Now, some ideas I was thinking on.........
-After Brawl came out, Issac became wanted more. I think Issac would be a good pick. Golden Sun was extremely well received here and Issac was suggested a good deal. I think SSB4 will be his time.
-Mike Jones crossed my mind, but then I thought of the fact that Sakurai was trying to keep Japanese only characters out. While there was Lucas, we still got Ness. I think it would be fair to keep it world-wide. So no on Mike and Takamaru/Sukapon
-Krystal is kind of a must I believe, but the question always arose as to how to do her moves. She could do staff fighting, but it might seem out of place in a Space theme. There really isn't much technological things she could do. There could be an Assault rehash, but that would feel uninspired. I thought she should have a combination of kicking attacks along with her staff. One special move idea was to give her a Barrier as her down B. It would allow to move and absorb projectiles. But it will drain overtime, and stun her.
-Ridley I'm almost thinking might be out of the question. He may in fact be TOO BIG. He could stay kind of hunched down, but even then, he may poke out of platforms.
-Saki is another character I thought could work. He is available to the west, and he'd make a cool fighter will a cool setting. I think the elevator would make a cool stage. Parrothead also made a really good moveset over on Smashboards.
-I came up with two ideas for a Mario character. The first was Geno obviously. He be like Mewtwo. About Mario's hight but pretty light. He'd make up for that with speed and loads of projectiles. His froward and Up smash were projectiles (short ranged ones though). Maybe projectile for back air (he fires them at the ground). His B would be the Geno beam. The other idea was Toad. While they have shafted him in the newer Mario games, he is still an older character who has been playable in numerous titles, including Mario Kart (so maybe a special move could use the Go-Kart or bikes).
-The reason I made the Andy moveset was that I was thinking how an AW character could work. The franchise does deserve more then it gets in Smash Brothers, but it's also one that's hard to add (and has few request). I was also thinking about Sami. She could summon troops like Andy, but only infantry. The other specials would use the Rocket Launcher. The other idea was to ditch these two and make the Infantry the character, and have like a Soldier from Team Fortress 2 (Rocket Launcher heavy). While it solves the problem of fightability, it would be jipping in a way as it's isn't a true character. Also, one stage was where you started on a Carriers and then rode air units into a sky battle.
-K. Rool was another character to cross my mind. He was requested in a SSB4 character topic at SmashBoards and, from what I've heard, he is quite popular in Japan. He could be a kind of slapstick character. He'd be cocky but also have a kind of silly air to him. Falling down with a forward smash, making the ARRRRRRROOOOOOOOOO sound afffect he does, and his facial expression from 64(the shocked one). Nice little odd ball
-Gohor was one I though a little about. If there was going to be another F-Zero character, it would be him. But no one has aked for more F-Zero. So I wonder if he should be added. Might feel kind of forced.
-AC characters I thought against. Sakurai said they wouldn't be added becuase why would an AC fight? It would be cool and unique, but also somewhat forced.
-The WTF character is a hard one. One idea was (as someone suggested) Duck Hunt Dog. It came becuase on 4chan, someone posted an image of the Dog(from Duck Hunt) and said "CONFIRMED FOR MARIO KART WII". I though "No way", but then thought of ROB. If ROB could be in both SBB and Mario Kart, why not this guy? Of course, it was false, but it got me thinking. Another one would be a character who was just a sprite. Of course, who is a better question.

[Flip]

I said it once and I'll say it again: SSB4, which will be like 7 years from now, is going to throw in the Assists as playable characters and maybe one or two more and that's it. Sadly, I am going to say Sakurai isn't going to bother adding Takamaru, Sukapon, Meowth, Gooey, whatever as this junction if they were passed over as major players another time. Not to say they HAD to be playable characters, but it's very likely now that we KNOW there wasn't much content from at least the two NES games we won't be seeing them any more playable than we've had playable Lip or Mach Rider.

And as far as third parties go, my money's on SSB4 being a joint project between Nintendo and another company. It's the only way to go if they want to keep a full roster of POPULAR characters, because Nintendo basically drained the bucket otherwise. Nintendo vs. Capcom, like I've always wanted, would KILL if it ever got made.

[Sqrt2]

fliptroopa said:

And as far as third parties go, my money's on SSB4 being a joint project between Nintendo and another company. It's the only way to go if they want to keep a full roster of POPULAR characters, because Nintendo basically drained the bucket otherwise. Nintendo vs. Capcom, like I've always wanted, would KILL if it ever got made.

It'll probably the only way I'll get to see Phoenix Wright in Smash that's for sure!! And Megaman as well, of course!

[Smashchu]

fliptroopa said:

And as far as third parties go, my money's on SSB4 being a joint project between Nintendo and another company. It's the only way to go if they want to keep a full roster of POPULAR characters, because Nintendo basically drained the bucket otherwise. Nintendo vs. Capcom, like I've always wanted, would KILL if it ever got made.

That would be a bit tough. I seriously doubt it. In a business sense, it would be wise to do just Nintendo characters. There are still characters left to be used. The other thing is it would be too hard to do at this point. You'd have to have the number of company Xs characters meet the high number of Nintendo characters. Kind of hurts fans if you frantically remove Nintendo characters just to add a bunch of Company X guys.

Sorry, but I think some are a bit too third party happy. It's nice and all, but logically, it's not wise. Somewhere a line must be drawn. It would be impossible to add a truck load of third parties. It creates characters who are not garrented to come back and cuts into Nintendo's profits. Overall, it's a really tricky process. While they are always a nice sentiment, it's something that can't be done is bulk, or even in high quantity. It is a Nintendo fighting game. My bet would be to expand the franchises in Brawl (for third parties). Keeps it simple.

[TV Eye]

I don't think one or two extra third party characters would hurt...

Sonic and Snake should become Smash veterans (if they do actually come out with a SSB4) and maybe add Mega Man and...phew...uh...Pac Man, I guess.

[Sqrt2]

I think all third party characters should be dropped from the Smash Bros series in future. (well him at least anyway, snake's alright I suppose)

I'm really asking for it, aren't I? *gets shot*

[8bitretroshit]

A Nintendo X Capcom X Konami game would make my head explode. In a good way.

But Smashchu's right, Smash Bros. is popular enough without the extra 3rd party additions. The next Smash Bros. will probably have a few more characters from maybe a few more companies (Capcom, Hudson, Square), but a joint project seems pretty unlikely. I'm fine with that, Megaman would be the obvious next newcomer that will blow me away at E3 2020 when the trailer for SSB4 shows up. A joint project would be cool though, Mario vs Goemon vs Sir Arthur vs Link vs Simon Belmont vs Twinbee vs Morrigan vs......

Screw Sega though, they'd only end up jamming 10 Sonic characters in the roster.

[Flip]

Well, my point was that it was not that far-fetched () for Nintendo to just partner with a company if that's what it takes to please fans with more well-recognized characters. It's kind of a battle between what the Nintendo fans want and what the gaming community wants. Sakurai's biggest point about selecting characters was that they were going to be fresh, unique, and worthwhile additions to the cast. He kept saying "popular characters don't excite me" which is true in some way, but in other light he is still going to pick characters people will clamor for. Pit was not well-known by the community at large, but he had a steady fanbase and his inclusion expanded that tenfold because of his redesign.

I guess what I am getting at is that Sakurai is the type of guy who would go with the option I've presented. He's not a part of Nintendo anymore, he wanted to include 3rd party characters since Melee (he says it himself, don't deny it), and he wants Smash Bros. to be "the dream game." He says this countless times, and even in his speech at GDC he says that it's a good game but still far from perfect, joking that to his chagrin there are no Street Fighter characters in the game. Whether this means they were planned or never possible doesn't matter -- Sakurai liked the idea. No, if he just "likes the idea" does not imply it will happen. But it becomes a stronger idea because of it. Solid Snake, anyone?

I for one want the Smash series to stay true to Nintendo because that's what it's all about. We can learn about our favorite company and its history, present, and future. We can meet new faces, lands, and games. And, most importantly, we can finally see our old friends battling it out for supremacy. But the outside world, frankly, doesn't give a crap who Krystal is or why Ridley should be playable. And fat chance if they even know what a Geno is or why we wanted a limbless robot at all. What they want is solid gameplay and a cast of familiars. There's a reason Snake and Sonic were hyped to all hell. Not because of us, but because of the casual and non-Nintendo gamers. For people who aren't obsessive about Metroids and Zeldas and Pokeymanz. The regular folk. And, frankly, they want to see Bomberman before Takamaru. Soma Cruz before Lip. Or Ryu before Stafy.

There are still quite a few Nintendo characters left to add that are "popular." Little Mac comes immediately to mind for a non-represented franchise. Advance Wars COs are a good bet too. But by and large, the game will be populated by secondary Nintendo characters next time around. Hell, it already happened. Other than Pit, ROB, Olimar, and Wario, how many fresh franchise faces were added to Brawl from Nintendo? Zip. The rest of the cast, from Nintendo, is all secondary and villain characters. They've exhausted the major series that people recognized on a day-to-day basis and how many of the secondary characters from those franchises can you see being absolutely logical and must-see additions to SSB4? You could argue maybe... Dixie, K. Rool, Ridley, Bowser Jr.... y'know, quite a few. But are they worth it over the chance to include Mega Man? Pac-Man? Cloud Strife? If given the fullest opportunity with very little strings attached, what do you think is the option Sakurai is going to take? He already did it with Sonic and Forbidden 7...

Now all this being said, a Nintendo x "Company" game would be a letdown because yes: the cast would be severely lacking. And, yes, the appeal of Smash is the breadth of its cast and the surprising amount of obscure characters who become stars thanks to it. But the general reaction from both the press and the gaming community over the additions of Snake and Sonic is too much to pass over. Nintendo is not one of those developers, no. But Sakurai is. And by hell or high water, if he's involved in SSB4 we can be guaranteed a far higher ratio of 3rd Party characters this time around. We know he's pretty much used all he felt like mustering from Nintendo.

[Game Guru]

I think Sonic and Snake will return for Super Smash Bros. 4, along with if not more third-party characters from other companies, then more third-party characters from Konami and Sega. I mean sure we WOULD like to have more Nintendo characters, and that will happen... Pretty much Nintendo exhasted their most familar characters. I'd expect Krystal, Mewtwo, a pokemon from the latest gen of the time, the latest Fire Emblem Lord, some Retro Nintendo Character, some WTF character with importance to Nintendo, possibly another Mario character and Zelda character... and then the third-parties.

I can definately see Konami and Sega loaning another character each in addition to Snake and Sonic. Come on, what other Konami frachise would you like to see in Brawl... Of course, Castlevania, and who better than having Simon Belmont himself playable? As far as Sega goes, they should just stick to the Sonic series for now and loan Dr. Eggman to be a playable character. It'd also benefit Capcom to have two third-party characters per company for SSB4... Then we can have Mega Man AND Ryu! Could you imagine what just having Simon Belmont, Mega Man and Ryu could do in addition to Solid Snake and Sonic the Hedgehog? I hate to think what would happen if Nintendo allowed Square-Enix to promote Final Fantasy in SSB4 in exchange for allowing Geno in.

[Smashchu]

tveye said:

I don't think one or two extra third party characters would hurt...

Sonic and Snake should become Smash veterans (if they do actually come out with a SSB4) and maybe add Mega Man and...phew...uh...Pac Man, I guess.

Well, let's think down the line. In SSb4 we have 4 third party franchise. In SSB5 we have 6. This creates many problems down the line and creates confusion. I think third party characters need toi be very limited. WE should only chose characters that make a lot of people happy. Pac-Man is a good example. A few people wanted Pac-Man. Does that mean Pac-Man should be added. No. Megaman is the same way. More people wanted Megaman, but only a set group. So should he be added. No. If in the future, a large amount of Smash fans want Megaman, then they should consider him. It's not a should think, and should be only for select few. I wouldn't think it be a bad idea if they don't add 3rd parties to SSB4 if one was never popular enough.

fliptroopa said:

Well, my point was that it was not that far-fetched () for Nintendo to just partner with a company if that's what it takes to please fans with more well-recognized characters. It's kind of a battle between what the Nintendo fans want and what the gaming community wants. Sakurai's biggest point about selecting characters was that they were going to be fresh, unique, and worthwhile additions to the cast. He kept saying "popular characters don't excite me" which is true in some way, but in other light he is still going to pick characters people will clamor for. Pit was not well-known by the community at large, but he had a steady fanbase and his inclusion expanded that tenfold because of his redesign.

Yeah, I see what you mean. Of course, fresh is also something he said. So characters like Pokemon Trainer works quite well.

I guess what I am getting at is that Sakurai is the type of guy who would go with the option I've presented. He's not a part of Nintendo anymore, he wanted to include 3rd party characters since Melee (he says it himself, don't deny it), and he wants Smash Bros. to be "the dream game." He says this countless times, and even in his speech at GDC he says that it's a good game but still far from perfect, joking that to his chagrin there are no Street Fighter characters in the game. Whether this means they were planned or never possible doesn't matter -- Sakurai liked the idea. No, if he just "likes the idea" does not imply it will happen. But it becomes a stronger idea because of it. Solid Snake, anyone?

I would disagree. He seems reluctant to add them. Snake got in becuase Kojima begged for it. And Sonic didn't get in till late into production. It could have just been Snake. So I think that he doesn't think the line of more third parties or a cross over like title. If we go withj a cross over, then Smash Brothers gets left behind (or there is more work). What I'm saying is I think how it is now is fine.

Also, Dream Game doesn't mean characters from different companies, but can also mean a perfect game.

I for one want the Smash series to stay true to Nintendo because that's what it's all about. We can learn about our favorite company and its history, present, and future. We can meet new faces, lands, and games. And, most importantly, we can finally see our old friends battling it out for supremacy. But the outside world, frankly, doesn't give a crap who Krystal is or why Ridley should be playable. And fat chance if they even know what a Geno is or why we wanted a limbless robot at all. What they want is solid gameplay and a cast of familiars. There's a reason Snake and Sonic were hyped to all hell. Not because of us, but because of the casual and non-Nintendo gamers. For people who aren't obsessive about Metroids and Zeldas and Pokeymanz. The regular folk. And, frankly, they want to see Bomberman before Takamaru. Soma Cruz before Lip. Or Ryu before Stafy.

I would like to see it focus on Nintendo. I am one of the "purist" but I also don't believe that the franchise "should" have more 3rd parties. If they are very highly requested then yes. It not very easy to get these characters in the game.

Anywho........I thought that of Brawl. But, in the end, we have a wide array of characters that many people will know, and some characters people may not. Someone must of known of Diddy, PKMN Trainer, Olimar, Wolf, ROB, and Wario.

There are still quite a few Nintendo characters left to add that are "popular." Little Mac comes immediately to mind for a non-represented franchise. Advance Wars COs are a good bet too. But by and large, the game will be populated by secondary Nintendo characters next time around. Hell, it already happened. Other than Pit, ROB, Olimar, and Wario, how many fresh franchise faces were added to Brawl from Nintendo? Zip. The rest of the cast, from Nintendo, is all secondary and villain characters. They've exhausted the major series that people recognized on a day-to-day basis and how many of the secondary characters from those franchises can you see being absolutely logical and must-see additions to SSB4? You could argue maybe... Dixie, K. Rool, Ridley, Bowser Jr.... y'know, quite a few. But are they worth it over the chance to include Mega Man? Pac-Man? Cloud Strife? If given the fullest opportunity with very little strings attached, what do you think is the option Sakurai is going to take? He already did it with Sonic and Forbidden 7...

Well, let's think about this. Between now and SSB4 there might be some new franchises. Monolith is supposedly working on a new RPG, and there may be more franchises popping up. Not to mention we have characters now like Issac, King K. Rool, Ridley, Toad(part of the reason I though he should be one is how recognizable he is), Gohor, and any new characters that might come out. In Melee, not many people knew the ICs, Game&Watch, Marth, or Roy (Not to mention it's not hard to know who a clone of Mario is or Y. Link). Smash will always have a lot of unknown characters. But there is so much trouble in trying to get third party characters. Remember that he said 1-2 more characters. All we got was Sonic and even then, it was rather late decision.

Again, Megaman may seem nice, but why jump though hopes when a small part of the smash community wants said characters when they could please another small part with a Nintendo character.

Now all this being said, a Nintendo x "Company" game would be a letdown because yes: the cast would be severely lacking. And, yes, the appeal of Smash is the breadth of its cast and the surprising amount of obscure characters who become stars thanks to it. But the general reaction from both the press and the gaming community over the additions of Snake and Sonic is too much to pass over. Nintendo is not one of those developers, no. But Sakurai is. And by hell or high water, if he's involved in SSB4 we can be guaranteed a far higher ratio of 3rd Party characters this time around. We know he's pretty much used all he felt like mustering from Nintendo.

I don't think he is "That" kind of developer. Like I said, he only added 2 third parties, and he wasn't even going to add the last one. It took a friend begging him and a LARGE number of fans to get the two we have, and one could say those were by the skin of their teeth. He knows it's a Nintendo game. He know these things. He is much smarter with choosing characters then we'll ever be. I think he understands both the difficulty of adding these characters, but also the work behind the scenes.

Sorry to be arguing, but here is the deal. Adding third parties is much harder then any of you have given credit too. It's not as simple as "Next game, there will be two more third party characters". There is a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes. There are rights agreements and also royalties. Nintendo can't have 4 other companies involved in one game. It's madness. Or, will be when your trying to balance legal stuff with money and adding the character. It becomes a lot. Not to mention that why bother when not that many people want him/her. Sure, there are some people that wanted Megaman and Castelvania characters; if that is the case, why did they not get in? They need to be wanted, and in great amount. Sonic was VERY popular and it took a while to add him. Heck, they might have even skipped him. Why add a third party character that a few people would like to see and jump though all those hoops when you can add a Nintendo character a few people want.