Who would be next to enter the Smash Spotlight

[Dances in Undergarments]

smashchu2 said:

Well, let's think down the line. In SSb4 we have 4 third party franchise. In SSB5 we have 6.

Oh shit yeah that would be ridiculously confusing. 6? What the hell?! I can't count to six!

You keep going on about royalties, Smashchu. Do we even know Nintendo pay royalties for these characters? I'm fairly certain they don't. I'm pretty sure its just more of a "hey your characters will get exposure in our big game, and we get your fans to buy our game". Hell, I don't think even THAT much wheeling and dealing went into Snake.

Alternatively, if its gonna be, whatever, say 7 years until SSB4, Sakurai will have worked on a few other projects by then. What if he worked on a Megaman game, and fell in love with the character, and decided he wanted him in. This would be a situation like Snake, most likely.

[Dasher Misire]

I think 3rd parties shouldn't be the focus, just keep Snake and Sonic and add nothing at the moment.

Waluigi isn't really character-worthy, I'd say. He's only been in sports games and so much his move is a tennis racket.

I want a second F-Zero character but apparently Sakurai thinks they're all boring or not standing out.

[mopinks]

dasherkoopa said:

Waluigi isn't really character-worthy, I'd say. He's only been in sports games and so much his move is a tennis racket.

yes.
it baffles me when people say "how can they have Wario in the game without Waluigi???", as if the two of them are anywhere near the same level of importance.

[Smashchu]

dancesinunderwear said:

smashchu2 said:

Well, let's think down the line. In SSb4 we have 4 third party franchise. In SSB5 we have 6.

Oh hobo yeah that would be ridiculously confusing. 6? What the hell?! I can't count to six!

You keep going on about royalties, Smashchu. Do we even know Nintendo pay royalties for these characters? I'm fairly certain they don't. I'm pretty sure its just more of a "hey your characters will get exposure in our big game, and we get your fans to buy our game". Hell, I don't think even THAT much wheeling and dealing went into Snake.

Alternatively, if its gonna be, whatever, say 7 years until SSB4, Sakurai will have worked on a few other projects by then. What if he worked on a Megaman game, and fell in love with the character, and decided he wanted him in. This would be a situation like Snake, most likely.

I think the point is being missed. Major Point:It is not easy to get third party characters into Brawl. No where near as easy as anyone here has made it out to be.

The more franchises that are in Smash, the more problems there will be, period. For every game, the developers will have to secure the rights for the franchise. Not just the character, but every character, AT, stage, music trophy and sticker. Your getting the right to a franchise, not a character. 1 alone is tough work. Many meetings must be worked out and every fine detail met. It's not as easy as going up to a developer and saying "Hey, I want to use your character". You need to secure the rights to everything (which may or may not work out in the end) and both companies need to be in agreement. It's not Sakurai and a developer sitting in a room drinking tea; it's Nintendo and X Comapny in a room trying to meet the others demands while working out their agenda. It's rights. It will never be easy stuff. Not to mention that these things change hand. Kojima could lose the right to Metal Gear becuase he may have left Konami or moved to a different development team inside the company. It's not like Kojima waves a magic wand and the rights are worked out. Now, you have to deal with Konami, not Sakurai's friend, Kojima. So it doesn't garrentee these characters will return. Unlike Mewtwo and Roy, who could still be added but chose not too, these characters may not be able to come back period. There is no garrentee becuase they do not hold the rights.

Now while I don't know if there was any kind of deal on royalties, I can assume that chances are, there are. Snake, maybe not, but a yes for Sonic. Sega comes into the agreements with a straight flush. Nintendo really wants to add Sonic too please fans and increase their sales, but what does Sega get. Maybe a little money on the side. It's not hard to believe. In a business mindset, the answer is yes, money is involved.

Of course you mention what if he falls in love with megaman. Two things. 1)Sakurai doesn't necessarily add his favorite characters. Mach Rider was his favorite character for Melee and yet he is not played. The other thing is just becuase he likes him, doesn't mean he gets the rights. 2)Just becuase he likes him, doesn't mean he gets the rights. Most of the time, the Publisher holds the rights, not the developer. Snake is a unique scenario since Kojima has the rights to Snake, but that is not true of Megaman and Sonic. One reason Sakurai may be reluctant to add any other character is because it was easy to get Snake's rights. The same can't be said about the others.

Another thing. One thing people seem to forget is they think "This third party character SHOULD be added becuase he'd blah blah blah". It's just like saying X Nintendo character should be in because......but there is a difference. Nintendo owns Nintendo, not the other guys. You can't say Megaman should be in Brawl becuase he works. It doesn't work that way. Popularity on a massive scale is what is going to be what determinds which third party characters get in. You would jump though hoops just to add a character a few people want.

Someone mentioned adding more franchises from that company. It helps the problem but doesn't solve it. Now your are getting a new franchise, but it's coming from someone you've dealt with before. My solution was always just expanding the franchise. Add Metal Geat and Sonic characters. It solves the problem 100%. The only downside would be if you lost the franchise.

Now, moving on................
I have been pondering the want factor of characters. That a characters should make people want the game. That is where I get to Gohor and Saki. Would people want these two characters. Gohor maybe. There are a lot of F-Zero fans so Gohor might work, but would he fit and be his own character. The there is Saki. He's cool and would work well, but he's so unknown. How far would his coolness prevail?

Also, speaking of rights, maybe Toad would be a more fisable Mario character then Geno.

[TV Eye]

Smash, I couldn't get through your wall of text, but I noticed at the end you said Toad would be a good character? LOL WUT?

Alright, I have a few things to say. It seemed Keiji Inafune (the creator of Mega Man) wanted Mega Man to appear in Smash, in an interview I read a long time ago, but Sakurai never asked him, so he passed it aside. I don't see why someone would say no to their character being added in Smash.

(I'd also like to point out, that he was the producer of Zelda: Minish Cap...)

Found the interview.

Well, I really do love Super Smash Brothers. It’s a great series…but, Nintendo hasn’t asked me yet if they can use Mega Man in their game. I’m still waiting…we have a little bit of time left, it’s not coming out for another few months. They might get around to asking us if we’d like to put Mega Man in Super Smash Brothers. Maybe if somebody from Nintendo is listening to this podcast, they’ll give me a call.

I bet a majority of you here never thought to play a Metal Gear Solid game, until you realized Snake was in Brawl. I can vouch for that. So why wouldn't a developer want to increase sales by having their character appeal to a wider audience?

Let's say that the next Smash game adds more Sonic and Metal Gear characters. Alright, that's fine...but that's just not something Sakurai would do.

[mopinks]

tveye said:

I bet a majority of you here never thought to play a Metal Gear Solid game, until you realized Snake was in Brawl.

I don't think that's a very safe bet at all!

[Deleted]

mopinks said:

tveye said:

I bet a majority of you here never thought to play a Metal Gear Solid game, until you realized Snake was in Brawl.

I don't think that's a very safe bet at all!

I never thought of playing a Metal Gear game before Brawl.

OH SHI-

You know, just throwing it out there - it does happen. It's not just for MGS, either, because SSB has made me play a TON of games I never would have considered beforehand. I wasn't very into Metroid before SSB64; I want to play EarthBound when it comes out on the Virtual Console; I thought WarioWare was a junk franchise before and am now a giant fan of the series; I've tried Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones, Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes and Kid Icarus and found that I'm terrible at all three, but by damn at least I've gotten to experience them! Not to mention I now have greater appreciation for the Game & Watch-style games I used to have as a kid, and the fact that if it weren't for ROB, there likely wouldn't be a video game market at all, period, let alone Brawl.

Yeah, what.

[mopinks]

sgtmajorkururu said:

I never thought of playing a Metal Gear game before Brawl.

OH SHI-

You know, just throwing it out there - it does happen.

of course it happens! I never said otherwise. but Metal Gear is one of the biggest game franchises ever, so assuming that the majority of people on a gaming forum have never even considered playing a Metal Gear game before is a bit of a stretch. (admittedly less so on this forum, saturated as it is with Nintendo nerds.)

I'm just hoping Brawl inspires more people to go out there and play Pikmin. :<

[8bitretroshit]

Well, I really do love Super Smash Brothers. It’s a great series…but, Nintendo hasn’t asked me yet if they can use Mega Man in their game. I’m still waiting…we have a little bit of time left, it’s not coming out for another few months. They might get around to asking us if we’d like to put Mega Man in Super Smash Brothers. Maybe if somebody from Nintendo is listening to this podcast, they’ll give me a call.

Ha I remember this. I still imagine Keijine just sitting in his office at his desk, staring at his phone, waiting for Sakurai to give him a call

If he went and contacted Sakurai himself (at an earlier stage) things would probably have worked out. Dude's totally willing to put Megaman in a Smash Bros. game and the blue robot is pretty damn popular so I'm kinda expecting him to show up in the next installment of Smash. Unless nobody tells him he has to make the call first.

[Neko Neko Panic]

mopinks said:

Travis Touchdown is awesome, but I really sincerely hope he's never in a Smash game.

Why not? I think he'd fit awesomely. Yes, there's vulgar stuff in NMH, sure. But Travis himself I feel would fit perfectly in Smash just so long as you don't have him curse or something.

dasherkoopa said:

Waluigi isn't really character-worthy, I'd say. He's only been in sports games and so much his move is a tennis racket.

Personally? Not a Waluigi fan. Wario is awesome, but only because he evolved almost right away from just being "Evil Mario." He has his own identity. Wario Land series made me first start liking him. And then he got Wario Ware and Wario: Master of Disguise. He's really come into his own.
Waluigi, on the other hand, is just a rip-off in two directions. He's "Evil Luigi" and "Wario's Luigi" at the same time... and that's about the extent of him. He exists only because there was a perceived hole there to be filled, created by Wario's existance. (Honestly... a rotated M at least makes a W, but a rotated L... it's just like a retarded 7 or something!) This is why he's only been in sports games and party-type games. Granted, someone may come along and give him more of an identity in some game, and if so, that's great. But as he is now... he's pretty lame.

mopinks said:

I'm just hoping Brawl inspires more people to go out there and play Pikmin. :<

Funny thing, that. I'm a big Nintendo fan, but I only played Pikmin for the first time recently... after Olimar & Pikmin was officially revealed for Brawl. Now don't get me wrong, I had intended to play the game for a long time. But O&P being in Brawl is what pushed me to finally actually go do it.

[TV Eye]

mopinks said:

of course it happens! I never said otherwise. but Metal Gear is one of the biggest game franchises ever, so assuming that the majority of people on a gaming forum have never even considered playing a Metal Gear game before is a bit of a stretch.

I thought this was a Nintendo forum, where the majority only play Nintendo games. But now I see that some here haven't even considered some games, until that character was in Smash! So, yeah. I think I've proven my point.

[rukifellth]

I'd like to see a playable version of the Pokey-machine... but smaller ofcourse...
And Demille! ^_^
And maiby a mode that let's you create your own characters, chosing things and parts that might come from every possible character ever, to create your own dream-character! PWND!

[mopinks]

tveye said:

I thought this was a Nintendo forum, where the majority only play Nintendo games. But now I see that some here haven't even considered some games, until that character was in Smash! So, yeah. I think I've proven my point.

you don't have to be a Nintendo loyalist to post on a Nintendo forum, though. and at the very least, most people will at least have a friend or two who owns a console they don't have, and experience other games that way.

if you're only playing games on Nintendo systems, you're really missing out on a lot.

[Flip]

I guess because I never did do this in this thread yet, here's the characters I am certain should appear in SSB4 (which henceforth shall be known as Super Smash Bros. Ham and Cheese!)

64/Melee/Brawl Roster
Characters to return from abroad: Maybe Mewtwo
Characters to get the almighty Norse axe: Pokemon Trainer, Toon Link, Wolf, Lucario
**Reasoning...: Mewtwo is a maybe because it depends on where the next gen of Pokemon goes (see below). The other four lose relevance, more or less. Lucario will be replaced by a new semi-legendary, Pokemon Trainer is cool but gets replaced by some new novel idea or a new trainer, the next Zelda will likely feature some separate incarnation of Link that replaces the "toon" version, and Wolf gets cut because he's the least liked character (justice, after what they did to Mewtwo).

Melee Poll Leftovers
None, because they have gleaned all that they could from that poll. Anything and everything possible appears in some form.

Brawl Poll Leftovers
These are characters that appear on the poll but NOT in the game in a playable OR assist form (music, stickers, trophies, etc.)
Takamaru, as he is top-requested
Krystal, Ridley, for same reason
King K. Rool, popular request though not on poll
Black Shadow/F-Zero villain, same as above
Geno, popular request and with more time they will work out the kinks in his ownership

Brawl Leftovers Period
Characters that were found on the disc but are not playable.
Dixie Kong, probably the only character I am calling as 100% guaranteed for the next game. I said the same about Takamaru, but my confidence shifted when we found those old Sakurai comments--remember?
Plusle and Minun, a cool idea and possible. Only hurdle is too many Pokemon characters.

Assists, Trophies
Characters that appear in the game in one form or another already, but are left as NPCs. These have the strongest chance of appearing, in my mind, barring the two listed above.
Little Mac, who was likely not added due to lack of imagination.
Samurai Goroh, who is the obvious F-Zero secondary.
Saki, who Sakurai said he wanted to see as a fighter.
Lyn, who Sakurai also wanted as a fighter.
Advance Wars CO, in the event of losing Snake (which I doubt, but it is possible).
Waluigi, if only to beef the Mario roster.
Mona, to bring in a secondary Wario character.
Ridley, who was listed above already.
Krystal, same as Ridley.
Dixie, same as those two but was actually found on disc.

Sadly, I feel that characters like Barbara, Jill, Stanley, or whoever else are still just not in the realm of general knowledge enough to warrant inclusion. Even Ice Climbers were recognized characters.

Novel Characters
Like Olimar or Pit, these are brand-spanking new characters. A lot of these are covered in other categories, but there are three specifically that should go here.
New Pokemon Trainer, because they would have to update him.
New Pokemon Legendary, as it is the trend it seems.
New Nintendo Character, because it happened to Olimar.

Third Party Additions
Characters that do not belong to Nintendo but other developers. Have some chance, depending on the makeup for SSBH&C. If Sonic and Snake stay, it's fair game for at least 1 or 2 more. If they leave, such will not be the case.
Mega Man, who was assumed by many to be in the game anyways. Best option.
Ryu, Sakurai commented he was a big Street Fighter fan and that he was sad there were no SF characters in Brawl.
Belmont, Konami's next logical inclusion would be a Belmont, though not necessarily Simon.
Pac-Man, Namco's obvious inclusion. Nintendo has a positive relationship with the character and franchise.
Bomberman, Hudson's obvious inclusion. Being a part of Konami helps too.
Geno, mentioned above.
Square-Enix Character, another potentiality.

I think... I covered everything. Maybe.

[mopinks]

nekonekopanic said:

But Travis himself I feel would fit perfectly in Smash just so long as you don't have him curse or something.

that's exactly why I don't want him in! they'd kill his very essence, i.e. cursing up a storm and simulating masturbation.

fliptroopa said:

Sadly, I feel that characters like Barbara, Jill, Stanley, or whoever else are still just not in the realm of general knowledge enough to warrant inclusion. Even Ice Climbers were recognized characters.

it's always possible that Jill might get another game to star in sometime in the next seven years, though. yes, this is what I choose to believe. :<

and you forgot Tingle! I'd say he's more likely than Waluigi, at any rate.

I think Chibi Robo has a solid chance, if they actually turn his series into a series instead of stopping at two games. and they should.