Who would be next to enter the Smash Spotlight

[TV Eye]

mopinks said:

you don't have to be a Nintendo loyalist to post on a Nintendo forum, though.

This thread speaks otherwise.

if you're only playing games on Nintendo systems, you're really missing out on a lot.

I totally agree with you there. Though, still. No one should buy a PS3. Get a PS2, or a PSP.

[mopinks]

tveye said:

This thread speaks otherwise.

seems to me the majority in that thread owns a PS2 or an Xbox in addition to Nintendo consoles.

personally, I'll be doing the same thing this generation that I've done every generation before: stick with Nintendo consoles for a few years, then pick up another console when they're cheaper and have a decent library of games to choose from. works like a charm!

[Flip]

mopinks said:

tveye said:

This thread speaks otherwise.

seems to me the majority in that thread owns a PS2 or an Xbox in addition to Nintendo consoles.

personally, I'll be doing the same thing this generation that I've done every generation before: stick with Nintendo consoles for a few years, then pick up another console when they're cheaper and have a decent library of games to choose from. works like a charm!

I can proudly say the only non-Nintendo console I've owned was a Sega Genesis. I wanted the Sega consoles badly as a kid, but we were never wealthy enough to get both Nintendo and Sega like some of my friends. That said, I'm dying for Sega stuff to start coming in full force on the VC and to find a PS2 dirt cheap with a few of the games I missed (Disgaea, Shadow of the Colossus, FF Tactics, etc.)

[Smashchu]

tveye said:

Smash, I couldn't get through your wall of text, but I noticed at the end you said Toad would be a good character? LOL WUT?

To defend my statement.......
I think Toad makes a good choice as he mets many of the requirements Sakurai looked for. He is a popular character who can fight, fit into Smash, and would be liked. He has been playable in many games before and is loved by oldschool fans (plus most people can tell what he's from). I'd see him over Geno becuase Geno is not well know (besides Smash and Oldschkool fans) and rights issues (especially if that rumor is true).

I bet a majority of you here never thought to play a Metal Gear Solid game, until you realized Snake was in Brawl. I can vouch for that. So why wouldn't a developer want to increase sales by having their character appeal to a wider audience?

I could ramble on and on about this. If you've read my post earlier, you'd known some of the problems and complications of adding more third party characters (one example in this case would be why jump though a lot of hopes for a character who probably isn't worth the trouble, popularity wise). Another thing I've never mentioned is Sakurai decided the roster by July 2006. That means by that time he knew all of the characters in the game. Sonic was the only exception, and I think we all know why. So, he may not have felt Megaman, who was on the poll, should be in Brawl. It goes to show us that there is a lot behind the scenes, even more then just the third parties.
I kind of rambled again.........sorry.

Also, to answer the question, yes, Smash made be go back and play The Twin Snakes, and I must say it was pretty good.

Let's say that the next Smash game adds more Sonic and Metal Gear characters. Alright, that's fine...but that's just not something Sakurai would do.

Well, can you give a reason why it wouldn't be "Sakurai".

[TV Eye]

smashchu2 said:

Let's say that the next Smash game adds more Sonic and Metal Gear characters. Alright, that's fine...but that's just not something Sakurai would do.

Well, can you give a reason why it wouldn't be "Sakurai".

Well, from what I can tell, Sakurai's all about adding new franchises to the mix. Why else wouldn't he add another Mario or Zelda character? Two of Nintendo's biggest and most popular games?

I don't know. I guess he's pretty unpredictable...

[Game Guru]

smashchu2 said:

I think the point is being missed. Major Point:It is not easy to get third party characters into Brawl. No where near as easy as anyone here has made it out to be.

The more franchises that are in Smash, the more problems there will be, period. For every game, the developers will have to secure the rights for the franchise. Not just the character, but every character, AT, stage, music trophy and sticker. Your getting the right to a franchise, not a character. 1 alone is tough work. Many meetings must be worked out and every fine detail met. It's not as easy as going up to a developer and saying "Hey, I want to use your character". You need to secure the rights to everything (which may or may not work out in the end) and both companies need to be in agreement. It's not Sakurai and a developer sitting in a room drinking tea; it's Nintendo and X Comapny in a room trying to meet the others demands while working out their agenda. It's rights. It will never be easy stuff. Not to mention that these things change hand. Kojima could lose the right to Metal Gear becuase he may have left Konami or moved to a different development team inside the company. It's not like Kojima waves a magic wand and the rights are worked out. Now, you have to deal with Konami, not Sakurai's friend, Kojima. So it doesn't garrentee these characters will return. Unlike Mewtwo and Roy, who could still be added but chose not too, these characters may not be able to come back period. There is no garrentee becuase they do not hold the rights.

Now while I don't know if there was any kind of deal on royalties, I can assume that chances are, there are. Snake, maybe not, but a yes for Sonic. Sega comes into the agreements with a straight flush. Nintendo really wants to add Sonic too please fans and increase their sales, but what does Sega get. Maybe a little money on the side. It's not hard to believe. In a business mindset, the answer is yes, money is involved.

Of course you mention what if he falls in love with megaman. Two things. 1)Sakurai doesn't necessarily add his favorite characters. Mach Rider was his favorite character for Melee and yet he is not played. The other thing is just becuase he likes him, doesn't mean he gets the rights. 2)Just becuase he likes him, doesn't mean he gets the rights. Most of the time, the Publisher holds the rights, not the developer. Snake is a unique scenario since Kojima has the rights to Snake, but that is not true of Megaman and Sonic. One reason Sakurai may be reluctant to add any other character is because it was easy to get Snake's rights. The same can't be said about the others.

Another thing. One thing people seem to forget is they think "This third party character SHOULD be added becuase he'd blah blah blah". It's just like saying X Nintendo character should be in because......but there is a difference. Nintendo owns Nintendo, not the other guys. You can't say Megaman should be in Brawl becuase he works. It doesn't work that way. Popularity on a massive scale is what is going to be what determinds which third party characters get in. You would jump though hoops just to add a character a few people want.

Someone mentioned adding more franchises from that company. It helps the problem but doesn't solve it. Now your are getting a new franchise, but it's coming from someone you've dealt with before. My solution was always just expanding the franchise. Add Metal Geat and Sonic characters. It solves the problem 100%. The only downside would be if you lost the franchise.

Now, moving on................
I have been pondering the want factor of characters. That a characters should make people want the game. That is where I get to Gohor and Saki. Would people want these two characters. Gohor maybe. There are a lot of F-Zero fans so Gohor might work, but would he fit and be his own character. The there is Saki. He's cool and would work well, but he's so unknown. How far would his coolness prevail?

Also, speaking of rights, maybe Toad would be a more fisable Mario character then Geno.

Actually, Nintendo has a scheme to the third-party characters... The company who owns the character COMES to Nintendo. Hideo Kojima came to Nintendo on Solid Snake for Melee. Nintendo asked back if Konami was still interested, and they said yes. Sega came to Nintendo about Sonic and Mario being in the same game multiple times, and they agreed twice, once for Mario & Sonic and once for Brawl. Nintendo was able to secure the rights because both companies were willing, and I would think that is the key difference. A third-party company MUST be willing to put a character in Smash Bros before Nintendo would allow it. Why do you think Sonic was so late? It's not because of the poll, it's because Sega got to Nintendo a bit late, but not late enough for the Sonic franchise to not to be included.

[mopinks]

I don't think there's any indication of exactly how Sonic ended up in Brawl. all that "Nintendo asked Sega" or "Sega came to Nintendo" junk is just speculation.

all we do know is that he was the most requested character by far, and he got in.

[Smashchu]

tveye said:

smashchu2 said:

Well, can you give a reason why it wouldn't be "Sakurai".

Well, from what I can tell, Sakurai's all about adding new franchises to the mix. Why else wouldn't he add another Mario or Zelda character? Two of Nintendo's biggest and most popular games?

I don't know. I guess he's pretty unpredictable...

Well, in the same sence, he only added 3 new franchises to Brawl, and 5 with third party characters. It's hard to say, and then we must ask how willing is he too third parties. I think we could have an antire topic on that.

[TV Eye]

smashchu2 said:

Well, in the same sence, he only added 3 new franchises to Brawl, and 5 with third party characters. It's hard to say, and then we must ask how willing is he too third parties. I think we could have an antire topic on that.

Yeah, there's 8. 8 new franchises is a lot...

[Neko Neko Panic]

mopinks said:

that's exactly why I don't want him in! they'd kill his very essence, i.e. cursing up a storm and simulating masturbation.

Well... okay, that's a decent point. But they wouldn't have to screw him up that much. He could still act like a jerk without swearing, and I'm sure they could slip in a groin thrust or vaguely dirty gesture somewhere.

[Smashchu]

tveye said:

smashchu2 said:

Well, in the same sence, he only added 3 new franchises to Brawl, and 5 with third party characters. It's hard to say, and then we must ask how willing is he too third parties. I think we could have an antire topic on that.

Yeah, there's 8. 8 new franchises is a lot...

I counted the playable ones. You could count AC becuase of all the stuff, but there is also DS and Electroplankton. But also, adding Nintendo franchises and adding 3rd party franchises are not the same thing by any means.

[Flip]

I still feel under the impression that what we get is an expansion of old series and few new ones in each Smash game. I mean, the transition from 64 to Melee was mostly adding peripheral "non-heroes" to the already existing franchises and the same goes from Melee to Brawl. In the end, Melee added three new series: Ice Climber (added b/c Sakurai wanted a FC series), Fire Emblem (big series that missed the first game), and Game & Watch (really just for one character). The majority of the 14 fighters were added to "beef up" already existing franchises. So 10 of the new characters.

*SPOILERSSPOILERSPOILERS*
In Brawl, we get the same deal. There were, technically, 7 Nintendo franchises added. However, 3 of them are not represented with playable characters: DS, Electroplankton, and Animal Crossing. So in reality we got 4 added: Wario, Kid Icarus, Gyromite (for one character), and Pikmin. Out of all the new Nintendo characters that got added, only 4 were from new franchises. That leaves 9 characters from already repped series, so a bigger fraction overall.
*SPOILERS OVER*

So, basically, we see them focusing far more on adding to the roster from already established and popular franchises rather than including more original series into the game. Arguably, Fire Emblem, Wario, and Pikmin were "latecomers" to the series as they are still just as popular as the big-hitters. So, really, Melee only added two "obscure" and Brawl only added two "obscure." It's like there's a quota or something.

Next game, like I said, expect to see more secondary/tertiary characters like Dixie, Dark Samus, Tingle, Gooey, etc. and, somewhere in the mix, two obscure old-timers. Afterall, "popular characters don't excite Sakurai" *rolls eyes*

EDIT: I should mention that to fill the "obscure quota" Sakurai will be adding a Hanafunda card and an alien from Space Fever. Kid Icarus will still receive only 5 or so trophies, while Takamaru and Sukapon's stickers will be removed due to disinterest from the fans. Geno does not appear (neither do any new Mario characters as we all know it's a dying franchise anyways), and instead Sakurai creates the new original fighter: Nego, a wooden puppet who wears mage's clothing and uses star magic. But he's red! Oh, and ROB gets a clone: ROB64. Ironically, ROB64 shares half his moves ROB and half with Fox, quite unlike Krystal who is a clone of Samus with Peach's ability to hover.

[Manspeed]

I've never seen Flip so bitter.

[Deleted]

fliptroopa said:

Oh, and ROB gets a clone: ROB64. Ironically, ROB64 shares half his moves ROB and half with Fox

LANDMASTERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

Seriously, Flip...wtf? Got a rash in an unmentionable place that you need to get checked out? Did you wipe with poison ivy? Got a broken beer bottle lodged up your back-end?

...Are your panties permanently bunched? =(

Come back to us, man! Turn away from the Dark Side, ignore their temptation of Death Stars and cookies.

[TV Eye]

sgtmajorkururu said:

...Are your panties permanently bunched?

That's quite a pain for me...