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Post by Fryguy64 on Aug 6, 2008 17:23:00 GMT -5
I've said this before... all of Nintendo's most important characters were in Super Smash Bros. 64. In Melee we got more obscure, and Brawl got even more obscure (plus 3 post-Melee characters & 2 outsiders). To be honest, I was surprised Wario wasn't in SSBM, and part of me expected Pit and ROB to appear as well, but they all showed up for SSBB. That pretty much takes out all highly potential candidates, and leaves us with the obscure. To be honest, Snake and Sonic are high profile enough to make very interesting Brawl appearances. Everyone's already reeled off the next best likely candidates (Mega Man, Bomberman and Pac-Man) a million times. They would indeed be welcome, and should have been in Brawl. But as you all know, I like the obscure, and am still waiting for Takamaru and Sukapon to show their faces in a Smash game. Hell, I'd have settled for Assists or even music remixes... I wasn't satisfied with the resulting stickers and unaltered music.  |
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Post by Koopaul on Aug 6, 2008 19:39:00 GMT -5
Well it's not purely about obscurity. For example: Bowser Jr.
A lot of people here want Bowser Jr. in the series but it would create an imbalance and people would say "Well if Mario has Luigi, and Bowser has his Bowser Jr. why can't Peach have Daisy?" And before you know it, people are gonna want Daisy in it as well.
So its not about obscurity as much as if the character creates an upset and a need to compensate for that one.
Characters like Diddy Kong don't do that because he is next to DK himself. But characters like Wolf will do that because he is not next to Fox himself, thus creating the desire for more Fox characters. There's gonna need to be another Fox character in order to balance things with Wolf or just remove Wolf himself.
It's actually about levels and what characters rest of those levels. Let's look at Mario again.
Mario is number 1, he is the highest he can be with the Mario series and no one else is at his level. Luigi is next, he's number 2, no one else is second to Mario. But who is third? Well perhaps Peach? No Bowser? The fact is, Bowser and Peach are both in third. One is not greater than the other. Therefor if you were to just include Bowser, that wouldn't be fair to Peach, or the other way around too. That's why its perfect to have either Mario and Luigi or Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser.
Many obscure characters rest on the same level of Ice Climbers, many Fox characters rest with Wolf.
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Post by 8bitretroshit on Aug 6, 2008 22:00:57 GMT -5
A lot of people here want Bowser Jr. in the series but it would create an imbalance and people would say "Well if Mario has Luigi, and Bowser has his Bowser Jr. why can't Peach have Daisy?" And before you know it, people are gonna want Daisy in it as well. Daisey, Birdo and especially Waluigi are characters that only appear in Mario spinoffs titles nowadays. Bowser Jr. however, appeared in every main Mario game since Sunshine. You can bet your ass he will show up in that new Mario game they're working on too. Hell I think he has more of a chance to appear then Luigi does as unlockable extra again. He basically is the new 5th Mario character. Yeah, I'd rather have more main characters from different franchises instead of more dudes from the same franchise, but Bowser Jr sounds plausible to me. In fact I kinda expected him to show up in Brawl too, but I got King Dedede, Wario and Diddy Kong instead: characters I expected to show up in Melee |
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Post by Johans Nidorino on Aug 6, 2008 22:39:06 GMT -5
A lot of people here want Bowser Jr. in the series but it would create an imbalance and people would say "Well if Mario has Luigi, and Bowser has his Bowser Jr. why can't Peach have Daisy?" And before you know it, people are gonna want Daisy in it as well. Daisey, Birdo and especially Waluigi are characters that only appear in Mario spinoffs titles nowadays. Bowser Jr. however, appeared in every main Mario game since Sunshine. You can bet your ass he will show up in that new Mario game they're working on too. Hell I think he has more of a chance to appear then Luigi does as unlockable extra again. He basically is the new 5th Mario character. Yeah, I'd rather have more main characters from different franchises instead of more dudes from the same franchise, but Bowser Jr sounds plausible to me. In fact I kinda expected him to show up in Brawl too, but I got King Dedede, Wario and Diddy Kong instead: characters I expected to show up in Melee It was kind of justifiable to see Bowser Jr. in Brawl. But we still can't assume Bowser Jr. will show up in the following mainstream games after Galaxy. Remember how Bowser's former children weren't used after the middle 1990s. Before the Wii, his job was to be a Mario clone and later some kind of a spiky Boom Boom, but I think his Shadow Mario role was what made him special, and that was easier to portray in Brawl. If he doesn't remain an interesting boss in Mario games, it wouldn't hurt if he only makes cameos here and there. |
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Post by Smashchu on Aug 6, 2008 22:44:04 GMT -5
Koopaul: That's a good theory (I guess I'd call it). I think it's generally an explination the logic of the fanbases. If Bowser Jr. gets in, then Daisy fans can say "If he got in, why can't Daisy". Not that it's true or relevant, but this is just cannon fodder they can use in their imaginary war. @8bit:Does that mean we'll see Bowser Jr. in SSB4  But, again, I see it as who would be best. I'd like to see some new franchises (Little Mac and Issac) and secondaries (Krystal and K. Rool). I guess ti comes down to how much that character is liked and if they'd work in Smash. Also, one problem is this is really the post-Brawl era. A good number of characters in Brawl appeared after Melee was made (Olimar, Lucas, Ike, Toon Link and Lucario) so there is a good chance some of the playable characters in SSB4 will be characters made between now and the games creation. That, and Nintendo needs to make a new franchise.
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Post by Dasher Misire on Aug 6, 2008 23:01:42 GMT -5
We have enough Mario characters. Kamek could work for Yoshi but that's pushing it.
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Post by 8bitretroshit on Aug 7, 2008 4:07:38 GMT -5
so there is a good chance some of the playable characters in SSB4 will be characters made between now and the games creation. Characters like Captain Rainbow ;D Make him another Capt. Falcon clone for all I care [red]R[/red][orange]A[/orange][yellow]I[/yellow][green]N[/green][blue]B[/blue][purple]O[/purple][red]W[/red] [orange]P[/orange][yellow]U[/yellow][green]N[/green][blue]C[/blue][purple]H[/purple] [red]![/red][orange]![/orange][yellow]![/yellow] |
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Post by Game Guru on Aug 7, 2008 23:24:51 GMT -5
Well it's not purely about obscurity. For example: Bowser Jr. A lot of people here want Bowser Jr. in the series but it would create an imbalance and people would say "Well if Mario has Luigi, and Bowser has his Bowser Jr. why can't Peach have Daisy?" And before you know it, people are gonna want Daisy in it as well. So its not about obscurity as much as if the character creates an upset and a need to compensate for that one. Characters like Diddy Kong don't do that because he is next to DK himself. But characters like Wolf will do that because he is not next to Fox himself, thus creating the desire for more Fox characters. There's gonna need to be another Fox character in order to balance things with Wolf or just remove Wolf himself. It's actually about levels and what characters rest of those levels. Let's look at Mario again. Mario is number 1, he is the highest he can be with the Mario series and no one else is at his level. Luigi is next, he's number 2, no one else is second to Mario. But who is third? Well perhaps Peach? No Bowser? The fact is, Bowser and Peach are both in third. One is not greater than the other. Therefor if you were to just include Bowser, that wouldn't be fair to Peach, or the other way around too. That's why its perfect to have either Mario and Luigi or Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser. Many obscure characters rest on the same level of Ice Climbers, many Fox characters rest with Wolf. Actually, the only Star Fox character who is on par with Wolf is Krystal. Also, Wolf made the most sense INSTEAD of Krystal. He's from the defining Star Fox 64 and let's face it, Krystal would be best suited as the second default Starfox character, considering, she, above all others, has a varied moveset far outside the Blaster/Reflector/Firefox/Illusion/Landmaster moveset, just by giving her her Staff. Also, Peach does have Daisy. Daisy is an alternate outfit of Peach, and Bowser Jr. IS actually a major character in the Mario canon now having appeared in Super Mario Sunshine, New Super Mario Bros, and Super Mario Galaxy, all of which are platformers, and also being based on Baby Bowser from Yoshi's Island as well as the Koopalings in SMB3. Meanwhile, Waluigi only appeared the Sports Games and Daisy as the Damsel in one platformer. Bowser Jr, of all Mario characters, is obviously more worthy of being a fighter in Smash Bros. Yes, even more than Geno. Even though Geno might be owned by Square-Enix, he STILL would fight under the Mushroom, and he starred in only one game, albeit a kickass one. However, if there is a sequel to SSE in SSB4, Geno needs to be in it, but not just because he is a popular character. Basically, Geno's backstory is that he is a Star Spirit inhabiting a child's toy... So think how that backstory would affect what is essentially the World of Toys that is Smash Bros. It could be made deliberately unclear if that world's version of Geno is a mere trophy or in fact, the REAL Geno inhabiting a Geno Trophy. |
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Post by Fryguy64 on Aug 8, 2008 3:34:54 GMT -5
Funny, Bowser Jr. in New SMB reminded me a lot more of Boom-Boom than any of the Koopa Kids. And I think he was supposed to |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2008 20:10:09 GMT -5
My ideal SSB4 roster would be one that expanded its tenticular reach in all directions, filling a character roster full to bursting by drawing from as many characters as believably and conceivably possible from both franchises and single games, from already established in SSB (Mario, Star Fox) and not (Sin and Punishment, Kaze no whatsits). (Music and stages are bonuses, too...but my primary interest has been and always will be playable characters.)
Yeah, I'm pretty shallow when it comes to what I need from an SSB game, I'll admit. But it just makes me easy to please in the long run, because I already figure my favorites (Falco, Dedede) are safe.
However, that also doesn't mean I'm completely out of order in what I want, I do have my limitations; if Mario were to get additional characters, I'd prefer someone established in multiple entries of the main series (Bowser Jr.) versus a character who appears (almost) exclusively in spinoff games (Daisy, Waluigi). And I'm willing to accept that some franchises just can't be expanded right now (Yoshi, Pikmin, Kid Icarus), simply because Nintendo focuses their universes exclusively on the protagonist of said franchises, and their villains aren't anything worth noting.
For those curious, I do forsee all but Lucario returning for an SSB4; I feel safe knowing that any character that has appeared in at least two SSB games is safe (with the exception of poor Jigglypuff, who always seems on the verge of getting cut), and knowing that Wolf was only a "last minute addition" and that he's got a more unique fighting style and newfound love from Brawlers, I figure that the "other most likely one to get cut" is sticking around, too. Otherwise, I figure we're in dire need of at least the following characters taking playable slots: Bowser Jr., Krystal, Dixie, K. Rool, Mona, Captain Syrup (so we have three captains and another pair of breasts, since that seems to be a qualifier amongst you lot  ), Takamaru, Saki, Samurai Goroh, Black Shadow (like I said long ago, he's more fitting for a "heavy Captain Falcon" type), Paula, Kumatora (taking Ness and Lucas' PK moves, giving the boys something else to work with), Roy, Mewtwo, some 6Gen Pokémon, and a nice slew of 3rd party characters including: Megaman (duh), Pac Man and Neku Sakuraba (from The World Ends With You, a Squeenix candidate I'd like a LOT more than Sora because Neku's brand of obnoxiousness comes in an endearing, misanthropic, no-dumb-metaphors-allowed kind of way...and he'd just be more interesting to use overall, with such a unique fighting style), amongst others.
...yeah. That's my two cents.
braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaains
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Post by Dasher Misire on Aug 18, 2008 20:49:36 GMT -5
Tei, there are much better reasons to use Neku. How about his moveset possibilities are pretty much laid onto the table, he's a Nintendo DS designed character with a game done just for the DS and Nintendo, and his game has been well received and viewed as a daring step for Square-Enix? (Whoever hasn't played it better play it now because I can't stress how excellent this game is.)
Lucario will get removed if another character for another Pokemon generation stars in a movie like that. Or else we'd still have Mewtwo. Sakurai had three years to choose if he wanted Mewtwo.
Ike will get replaced ONLY if another Lord or just plain lead comes in who represents a new step for Fire Emblem or surpasses Ike in international popularity.
And you all say you expect Goroh. After he was made an AT. You guys seriously have that much hope from Sakurai, who said he only put in the characters he thought people would like, but held some back, but gladly shoves in Goroh as a summon? I want Goroh badly but I don't think he's a shoe-in. Cause if they're putting in a third Star Fox character before a second F-Zero character, and F-Zero's all alone with no fans supporting it, or at least loud enough, it's obvious Sakurai doesn't view it as important enough.
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Post by Johans Nidorino on Aug 19, 2008 0:07:04 GMT -5
Syrup interests me more than Mona. I believe the WarioWare staff characters aren't that deserving of being in Smash yet. I love the WarioWare series but they continue being just support characters that do minor stuff :-\. If one of them has to be in Smash, I wish they use moves that actually have a WarioWare feel, as I tried to show here in Flip's thread. 9-Volt has been suggested by fans, too: it's a very neat idea but, even though he would use awesome moves that pay homage to Nintendo, it still wouldn't be too related to Wario. I agree with Dasher on Lucario; It'll have to be a very interesting character if it will replace Lucario, whether it's a Pokémon or not. They even bothered to give it that "high risk, high return" quirk, which Lucario didn't have outside of Smash. Will they get rid of that? On another subject, I think Yoshi should start carrying babies as an optional fighting mode. Babies continue appearing in video games after many years, both in platformers and Mario side games. Babies don't need to get hit during battles; they'd just fly away in bubbles when Yoshi gets hurt. |
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Post by The Qu on Aug 19, 2008 0:11:14 GMT -5
Actually, Lucario's special ability is based off of the Pokemon move Reversal.It does more damage the lower the user's HP is.
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Post by Johans Nidorino on Aug 19, 2008 0:25:44 GMT -5
That's an interesting way to interpret it. I thought it resembled more the abilities of the starter Pokémon (Torrent, Blaze, Overgrow) because they empower the Pokémon and not only one move.
Speaking of which, giving such traits to Squirtle, Charizard and Ivysaur would make the Pokémon Trainer unnecessarily complex.
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Post by The Qu on Aug 19, 2008 0:49:26 GMT -5
I never thought of it that way... That makes some sense. BTW, don't credit me with the Reversal theory- that's all Neogafs. Impressive board around teh time of Brawl's leak.
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), Takamaru, Saki, Samurai Goroh, Black Shadow (like I said long ago, he's more fitting for a "heavy Captain Falcon" type), Paula, Kumatora (taking Ness and Lucas' PK moves, giving the boys something else to work with), Roy, Mewtwo, some 6Gen Pokémon, and a nice slew of 3rd party characters including: Megaman (duh), Pac Man and Neku Sakuraba (from The World Ends With You, a Squeenix candidate I'd like a LOT more than Sora because Neku's brand of obnoxiousness comes in an endearing, misanthropic, no-dumb-metaphors-allowed kind of way...and he'd just be more interesting to use overall, with such a unique fighting style), amongst others.